4 more years!!!!

[Spats]

This is the reason the left can not win an election in this country.John Kerry is the very definition of this elitist mentality which has been TOTALLY rejected by America.

Bush, like Kerry, went to Yale. Bush, like Kerry, pledged Skull and Bones. Bush and Kerry are the same elite.

And guess which one was a MALE CHEERLEADER at Phillips Andover Academy, the high school for the New England elite? That's right, Bush!
http://www.celebrity-pics.net/dp/files/2-22.jpg

Bush is no more an "aw, shucks" fundamentalist Texan than I am British royalty.

You've just proven that you are dumb and uninformed.

[Stikki]

Why is Kerry more "elitist" than Bush?

Because he comes from money? No, wait...
Because he went to Yale? No, wait...
Because he is from old New England blood? No, wait...

How the hell did Rove spin this?

It's that damn drawl.

Texas Gaper, "W sounds jus like pa and Billy-Bob, he be gud peeple then".

Funny how Bush Sr., Jeb, etc. don't have an accent.

[Johnny_Casino]

JESUS!!......Jesus will save us all!

http://www.allfunpix.com/humor/pics4/jesus_loves.jpg

[mrw]

[QUOTE=Spats Since you can't see that, you've proven that you are dumb and uninformed, and so is everyone who believes your reasoning.[/QUOTE]


Ah yes, Lenin breath... by your standards, I qualify as one of the great unwashed and uneducated, ignorant to the ways of the world but, my guys are in power and your guys have been uniformly rejected by the largest majority in recent history. Don't despair though, you're in good company. Michael Moore, Barbra Streisand and Whoopy Goldberg are also suffering from a reality check

[SteepnDeep]

I see nothing has changed.

For the crowd that states "you voted for Bush???" you must be a moron, a stupid fuck, a religious psycho, or obviously a dumb hick from middle America...who now, are so ashamed, embarrased, leaving the USA, and whining like 3rd grade girl's.

Self loathing, Self-rightous, elitism, and doom+gloom never sells to the masses.

This is the #1 reason I have not voted Democratic since Clinton's 2nd term. I don't want to be associated with people that have this outlook on life. It's weak, pathetic, and will always be associated with LOSERS!!!

I'm serious, how do you fucks that live like this wake up in the morning!

[Spats]

Ah yes, Lenin breath... by your standards, I qualify as one of the great unwashed and uneducated, ignorant to the ways of the world but, my guys are in power and your guys have been uniformly rejected by the largest majority in recent history.

So right and wrong are decided by how many people agree with you?

Also: you completely ignored the facts in my post and started name-calling. That's because you're wrong and the facts support me. Thanks for proving my point.

---

PS: I edited my post before your reply to it because I thought better of my generalization -- I'm arguing with you, not the world, who might have other reasons. Also I found that great cheerleader picture of W.

[FNG]

...so I've been hearing that a Kerry loss primes Hillary Clinton for 2008.

[mrw]

Also: you completely ignored the facts in my post and started name-calling. That's because you're wrong and the facts support me. Thanks for proving my point.

---

PS: I edited my post before your reply to it because I thought better of my generalization -- I'm arguing with you, not the world, who might have other reasons. Also I found that great cheerleader picture of W.

That was my attempt at a little Johnny Carson humor. No offense was meant. The pic is not showing on my sorry assed computer

[mrw]

...so I've been hearing that a Kerry loss primes Hillary Clinton for 2008.

I hear only Rosie O'Donnell can prime Hillary

[Spats]

This is the #1 reason I have not voted Democratic since Clinton's 2nd term. I don't want to be associated with people that have this outlook on life. It's weak, pathetic, and will always be associated with LOSERS!!!

I'm glad to know that your decision on who should lead the free world is based on your perception of whether the other people voting for him are "cool", and not on the policies of the candidates or their records in office.

Get it straight: This is politics, not professional sports. Voting for the winning side does not make you cool or get you any special treatment from the law.

Thank you, again, for proving my point for me.

[shamrockpow]

Sorry WSD if you took offense at the suckered comment. I love internal rationalizations/denial - a lot of times it is the only way to cope with things. I guess I just needed to piss in your cheerios this morning - sorry for that. My main point was just that this was important (and maybe more important than at other times) b/c we are at a turning point for our international situation AND economy. Add in the fact that this president possibly has more power than any single American EVER and he's shown no interest in creatively dealing with anything other than terrorism (and on that front I don't agree with the think big plan).

MrG: congrats on this election (although you did say you'd bet money Kerry only carries DC and Mass). What this came down to is that W connected to people's guts and even the middle felt that, Kerry did not do enough to win. I honestly am worried about going to Iran, Syria and N. Korea - I know only Dems have actually brought up the draft, but getting numbers up just with $$$ seems unlikely if some new crisis pops its head up. I hope for the best, prepare for the worst in the next four years.

[divegirl]

i don't understand how people who are passionate enough about skiing to spend time here and in the great outdoors could possibly support/approve of Bush's enviornmental policies/record?? that one issue alone (not to mention everything else) should cause you, as a skier, to question your support for this corrupt administration.

No fucking kidding. The demise of the clean air act, the push for protected trees to be chopped down (no trees, no fires, right?!)...the kyoto treaty. etc. I'm not a one-issue voter, but this damn well desribes a main reason I didn't vote Bush.

OKAY, okay, skiing, SKIING!!! I don't think we can help it today, though.

Back to skiing............................................ ....

[cultvo]

I read somewhere that:
Over two-thirds of all "regular" church goers vote Republican and over two-thirds of educated college graduates vote Democratic

Result: The majority of Bible-belters that vote Republican are under educated.

Stupid people should not be allowed to vote.

What about uneducated-college-grads & regular-churchgoing-educated-college-graduates??

[trainnvain]

sorry...havent got on the board in a long time...but i was bored waiting for the results and i did...whatever though

Oh, Ok.Damn 10 character.

[watersnowdirt]

Sorry WSD if you took offense at the suckered comment. I love internal rationalizations/denial - a lot of times it is the only way to cope with things. I guess I just needed to piss in your cheerios this morning - sorry for that. My main point was just that this was important (and maybe more important than at other times) b/c we are at a turning point for our international situation AND economy. Add in the fact that this president possibly has more power than any single American EVER and he's shown no interest in creatively dealing with anything other than terrorism (and on that front I don't agree with the think big plan).

.

Thank you, but I still think you're not getting me. There's no "denial" going on with me. I know full well what 4 more years of W means. I'm a woman, an activist, a progressive, and I live in San Francisco. You don't get a hell of a lot more liberal.

My point was simply that if we all we do is sit here on the TGR board and talk about doomsday, that's all we're gonna get. I know that most of us are beyond bummed by what happened last night. I know at least a handful of us work on social change issues, and the rest of us are at least committed to them, and with a few electoral votes we saw much of our work getting trashed. Last night was a HUGE step backwards for the progressive movement.

But I just can't bear to see people throw in the towel. Now is the time to fight, not back away.

Just take all the energy that I"ve seen people sling at Max and Blurred and start slinging at the monkey running our country who truly deserves it. If everyone here allocated 1/3 the time we do on this board to stir up shit in the outside world. we'd be well on way to ensuring that this doesn't happen again in 4 years.

And maybe a draft wouldn't be such a bad thing - I can guarantee that those pricks who keep sending us into the wars that the poor in this nation are fighting would think twice about sending us into so many wars if they knew that rich kids might starting getting killed too....

I don't event know what I'm saying anymore. All I know is that I'm pissed, but I'm not going to let the religious right run our country, choose what I do with my body, stop by friends from getting married, and strip our civil liberties away.

Fack, now I'm really pissed.

[MT]

..........

[Lane Meyer]

Here's an interesting article just posted on Slate.com, by William Saletan, the editor and chief political correspondent.

Democratic Values - How To Start Winning the Red States
by William Saletan

Hey, Democrats!

One silver lining in last night's debacle is that for another 24 hours or so, you might be open to rethinking what your party stands for. So, while I have your attention, here's an idea.

Go back to being the party of responsibility.

I'm not talking about scolding people. I'm talking about rewarding them. Be the party that rewards ordinary people who do what they're supposed to do—and protects them from those who don't.

If you think this kind of moral talk is anathema, you're the sort of person Karl Rove wants to be running the Democratic Party. Get out, or get a new attitude. Nearly 60 million people came out to vote for George W. Bush yesterday because they think that he represents their values and that you don't. Prove them wrong and you'll be the majority party again.

How? Start by changing the way you talk about pocketbook issues. Remember Bill Clinton's commitment to help people who "work hard and play by the rules"? Your positions on taxes and labor would be assets instead of liabilities if you explained them in moral terms. The minimum wage rewards work. Repealing the estate tax helps rich people get richer without risk or effort. Lax corporate oversight allows big businesses to evade taxes, deceive small investors, and raid pension funds.

Yes, Republicans will accuse you of waging a class war. I can see you cringing already. Get off your knees and fight. It is a war, but it isn't a class war. It's a culture war, and if you talk about it that way, you'll win it.

Some of you are dismayed by the emergence of a huge voting bloc of churchgoers. Stop viewing this as a threat, and start viewing it as an opportunity. Socially conservative blue-collar workers don't believe in the free market. They believe in the work ethic. Bush wins their votes by equating the free market with the work ethic. Show them where the free market betrays the work ethic, and they'll vote for the party of the work ethic—you—against the party of the free market.

What's your strongest issue among these voters? Outsourcing. Why? Because it's the issue on which you talk most naturally about right and wrong. It's also the issue on which you're most comfortable appealing to nationalism. That's another lesson you need to learn. People are voting Republican because they think you're weak. And, let's face it, you are weak. You say you'll defend this country, but then you go on about consulting other governments, cultivating goodwill, and playing well with others. You make a world full of terrorists sound like kindergarten.

Democrats in the Roosevelt-Truman years didn't have this problem. They called tyrants by their name, and they didn't sound like they were faking it. A party that believes in right and wrong at home must be assertive about right and wrong abroad. You need a serious antiterrorist agenda. Otherwise, when you object to a war like Iraq, you sound like the peace party.

I'm not asking you to act like you care about this stuff. I'm asking you to care about it for real, and not just at election time. When a Republican president runs a TV ad accusing you of failing to protect us from wolves, you should be able to point out that he's the one who emptied our shotgun into a fox, leaving us helpless against the wolves. And you should sound credible saying it.

Once you eliminate the sincerity gap between you and the Republicans on national security, you can exploit the reverse sincerity gap between you and them on responsibility. Think about the values of our armed forces: shared risk, shared sacrifice, and reciprocal duty between officers and soldiers, regardless of race or class. Those are your values.

When leaders betray troops through bad planning and false pretenses for war, that should be your issue. When Republicans cut taxes for the rich while the nation is at war and the Treasury is empty, that should be your issue. When soldiers from poor families die while corporations skim from the war budget, that should be your issue. I've heard John Kerry talk about each of these issues separately, but each time, he sounded opportunistic. To be powerful, they must flow from a common message. That message is responsibility.

All the issues Democrats like to run on—education, the environment, the deficit, energy independence—would be vastly more powerful if united under a single theme. Clean up your mess. Take care of your children. Pay your debts. Stand on your own two feet. It all comes down to responsibility.

The Democrat who talks this way most naturally is John Edwards. (I know, I've got to stop advertising for him.) He's the one who frames every issue in terms of values. He's the one who argued during the presidential primaries that Republicans were favoring unearned wealth over work. He's the one who connected Republican tax policies to make the point. You don't have to teach him the language, because he learned it growing up in one of those red states.

So, there's your candidate, and there's your message. Now go and live it, so you won't have to fake it.

[skea 457]

Bush could have a Regan like legacy upon leaving office.

I think a Nixon like legacy is more likely.