Poll: Glucosamine - Do you think it works?

[splat]

Hey, Ice. I did a 10 day liver cleanse with an almost all raw foods diet (no wheat, some cooked meat) over the last couple weeks and I feel like a new mang. Just did the longest hike I've done since blowing out my knee. If you want it, just say the word and I'll scan and email it to you.

[homebrewd]

http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/about

^^^ this. My dog doesn't understand placebo effect. I have seen HUGE improvements in his mobility about a month into dosing his food. I did my research, and settled on "K9 Liquid Health" which I get delivered for amazingly less money than anything else I have found so far. If you got something better or input I'd love to have it however. I compared ingredients and this seemed to be the best I could find

Edit: I know this thread isn't about animals, but Liquid Health makes products marketed for human consumption ( however the K9 version I order can be as well.) a brief comparison to a previously posted product leads this dentist to thinks I'd gonna stick with what I have.

I called them, $30 gets me 32 oz delivered, info here

http://www.liquidhealthinc.com/about

I have a Brittany with shitty swiss cheese hips, I give it to him twice a day and there is a noticeable difference in his mobility and energy levels as well.

[mtngirl79]

I have tried just about everything available with horses..

The only thing I feel like made a visible difference was MSM and legend (Hyaluronate Sodium)/adequan (polysulfated glycosaminoglycan) injections.

Actually adequan works so well that I know of people who inject themselves with it... not that I am recommending that..

[TheDon]

There are still no good studies out there, nor will there likely be, because nobody is going to fund it since the generic is dirt cheap, and often crap.

The few studies seem to show it helps about 50-60% of people. Nobody shows huge improvement, but enough to say it is helping. I put a lot of dogs on it, and talk a lot of owners who also use/try it, and I would agree with that 50-60% number. Again not great changes, but enough to justify using it. The results are never nearly as good as with NSAIDs, but that another issue.

I used it with no effect.

This is as I understand it too. I had a chem professor that was interested in it so he followed the research for a while and decided it was bull shit.
It is made up of bits of shark cartilage, crustacean chitin and exoskeletons for other sea arthropods. This is the curious thing is that if it was actually going to help your joints it would have to get to your joints. However, we ingest it, putting it into our stomachs where it gets broken down and pieced into aminoacid building blocks. You might as well eat the bone in your T-bone.

From a british medical journal, "Compared with placebo, glucosamine, chondroitin, and their combination do not reduce joint pain or have an impact on narrowing of joint space. Health authorities and health insurers should not cover the costs of these preparations, and new prescriptions to patients who have not received treatment should be discouraged."... Wandel S, Jüni P, Tendal B, Nüesch E, Villiger PM, Welton NJ, Trelle S (2010). "Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin, or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: network meta-analysis". British Medical Journal 341 (sep16 2): c4675. doi:10.1136/bmj.c4675. PMC 2941572. PMID 20847017

[Orthoski]

American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons (AAOS):

We recommend glucosamine and/or chondroitin sulfate or hydrochloride not be prescribed for patients with symptomatic OA of the knee.

AAOS Level of Evidence: I
AAOS Grade of Recommendation: A

Rationale:
This recommendation is based on an Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ) report12 that provides evidence from one RCT and six systematic reviews (Table 8) on the use of glucosamine and/or chondroitin sulfate or hydrochloride among patients with symptomatic OA of the knee. We evaluated this evidence as Level I.

The AHRQ report states that “the best available evidence found that glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, or their combination did not have any clinical benefit in patients with primary OA of the knee.”

[Ripzalot]

The few studies seem to show it helps about 50-60% of people. Nobody shows huge improvement, but enough to say it is helping. I put a lot of dogs on it, and talk a lot of owners who also use/try it, and I would agree with that 50-60% number. Again not great changes, but enough to justify using it.

hmmm, the 50-60% range is the typical max efficacy rate of placebos.

^^^ this. My dog doesn't understand placebo effect. I have seen HUGE improvements in his mobility about a month into dosing his food. I did my research, and settled on "K9 Liquid Health" which I get delivered for amazingly less money than anything else I have found so far. If you got something better or input I'd love to have it however. I compared ingredients and this seemed to be the best I could find

actually, the placebo effect has been observed in animals as far back as pavlov's experiments. now how or if this could work if you slipped it undetected into a dog's food, i don't know. it could also be explained by observer's bias, the fact that you know you did it and your observations are biased towards seeing it as being effective. or possibly the effects of more human contact; perhaps knowing your dog is sick you spend more time with him, petting him, talking to him, etc. this has been demostrated to have positive benefits in animals. maybe hutash knows more on this and can comment.

Well I gotta say, it's been like 5 days now and I don't feel any more miserable than I usually do. My hands and ankles hurt for a couple days but maybe that was just a coincidence or I psyched myself into it. Gonna stay off it for a while and see what happens.

i had been taking glucosamine/chondoitin supplements since mid-2010, shortly after my posts above. i thought my hands felt less creaky although i could never say there was any drastic improvement. then again i didn't have any severe symptoms to begin with. i had foot surgery about 7 weeks ago and decided that since i was going to be immobile on the sofa for the recovery period, there was no need to be taking the supplements during this time, so i stopped. i've been starting to get more mobile in the last 2 weeks and can now say with certainty that i don't notice any difference.

the fact is that the placebo effect is real and not fully understood. if it works for you, go for it as long as what you are taking has no harmful side effects. be prepared to be separated from your money for what is basically "all in your head".

[Shredhead]

I've been taking it a couple of months and my Cholesterol did jump. This might be my last bottle?

[baron]

looks like str8line camp alumni here;I thought there was flexability improvement...but this stuff isn't supposed to work fast;any coments from knowedgeable people on this? Wonder if the studies accounted for fish/non-fish eaters. Like to see a poll related to this important factor. I am a non fish eater.

[DougW]

Wasn't there another thread on this in the way back time?

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ht=glucosamine

We had a very active butthead dog that got a lot slower with age. Put him on ASA coated and he was fine. Switched to a product called Recovery. It was a powder with MSM and glucosamie ( plus Vit C & E plus special stuff). Worked as well as ASA. Then switched to gluc and MSM in pill form as was a lot cheaper. I was on powder stuff for a while and it ( I think ) sped up my recovery for a minor MCL.

I've been on for years. First I had an ankle injury that would not go completely away and seemed to do trick. I once was in a warm climate for 6 months and problems came back slowly. Pills had yellowed from heat. Once I was back on fresh stuff got better again.

[Shredhead]

I've been taking it a couple of months and my Cholesterol did jump. This might be my last bottle?

I have severe OA and DJD in the right knee and left hip. Last couple of months have been painful. But since my cholesterol went up a lot, I thought I'd quit the glucosamine, condroitin, msm suppliments I've been taking.
I quit last monday. By Friday I was more stiff and sore. Friday night I had a very intense workout. Saturday I could hardly walk. I'm back on.

[tryhard]

I had an elbow injury for years from motocross. I finally took glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, fish oil - Seemed to help.
THEN-
I tried Oseteo BiFlex NutriJoint with my BCAA's and protein before lifting weights. Also, Natrol's; Glucosamine, MSM, CetylPure capsules.
PAIN GONE!
First time in years.

Can't say what did it. Only anecdotal. The Oseteo BiFlex NutriJoint was primarily for the gelatin which supports collagen production.