Election Decided by 'Skins Game

[watersnowdirt]

Terrorism=control through fear. It's obviously working on you.

Control through fear = the Bush administration. Again, obviously working on you.

[Blurred]

Control through fear = the Bush administration. Again, obviously working on you.

Nah, I'm just a realist that has the common sense to know if you have a problem, you've got to take care of it, or it will come back and bite you. You and others seem to think, "it'll just go away if we ignore it". Get real.

[13]

Nah, I'm just a realist that has the common sense to know if you have a problem, you've got to take care of it, or it will come back and bite you. You and others seem to think, "it'll just go away if we ignore it". Get real.

G'head and "take care of it," Brett -- enlist. Happy trails, thailor!

[Blurred]

G'head and "take care of it," Brett -- enlist. Happy trails, thailor!

did that a long time ago, your turn.

[FNG]

-edit- nevermind, found it.

Fun oil fact: the U.S. gets 60% of it's oil from Canada. We get less than %20 from the middle east. The middle east's role in our oil policy is soley to keep the market supplied with enough oil to keep the prices low.

[13]

Brett, kudos to you and thanks for your service. and it explains a lot.

I'd probably be in Iraq or Afghanistan right now had I passed the physical.

-edit- nevermind, found it.

Fun oil fact: the U.S. gets 60% of it's oil from Canada. We get less than %20 from the middle east. The middle east's role in our oil policy is soley to keep the market supplied with enough oil to keep the prices low.

Where'd you get that info?

[PlayHarder]

Where'd you get that info?

Google tells me this:

Dear Yahoo!:
What's the current breakdown on where the U.S. oil supply comes from? Do we really get 60% of our oil from Canada?
Gas Guzzler
Valparaiso, Indiana

Dear Guzzler:
Thanks to the exhaustive work of our Yahoo! Full Coverage news surfers, we were able to strike oil in no time.
We drilled down the Full Coverage category for Oil and Gas and quickly located this May 2003 chart from the American Petroleum Institute web site. The top five crude oil imports from foreign countries to the U.S. for May breaks down as follows:

17.8% from Saudi Arabia
16.5% from Canada
12.8% from Venezuela
12.0% from Mexico
7.5% from Nigeria
From January to May of 2003, the U.S. received 42.8% of its imported oil from OPEC nations and 23.5% from Persian Gulf countries. During that timeframe, Canada was the top exporter to the U.S., supplying 16.9% of our oil. And while that is a substantial percentage (and one surprising to many folks), it's not quite the 60% you mentioned.

[FNG]

I read it over the summer in a poli-sci text book. Can't remember which one though. Apparently I, or the book, was wrong. Nice find playharder.

FNG, I wasn't clear. what I was saying is that in the Duelfer report, if it was read in completion. Not the NYTimes skimming. repeatedly stated that Saddam had the capability to have a CW program up in running within weeks of inspectors/sanctions leaving and lifted. It was no secret that Saddam wanted to dominate the Middle Eastern oil reserves. In his mind he was the next Saladdin.

Just read the "Key Findings" section of the Duelfer report. The full report is like 1,000 pages. A very interesting report. Ya'll should read it.

What the report did say is that Saddam could have a chemical weapons program up in 3-6 months.

"ISG judges, based on availible chemicals, infrastructure, and scientist debriefings, that Iraq at OIF probably had a capability to produce large quantities of sulfur mustard withing three to six months."

"A former nerve agent expert indicated that Iraq retained the capability to produce nerve agent in significant quantities within two years, given the import of required phosphorous precursors. However, we have no credible indications that Iraq acquired or attempted to acquire large quantities of these chemicals through its existing procurement networks for sanctioned items."

What I noticed reading the report was the repeated mention that Saddam's top priority was to either get the UN sanctions lifted or to circumvent them. Then when his economy had recovered, he would then attempt to produce significant amounts of chemical weapons. However, Iraq's industry was crippled with UN sanctions in place, making the development of significant amounts of chemical weapons nearly impossible. The UN, surely under pressure from the US, was in no hurry to lift the sanctions on Iraq.

Duelfer Report Link

[PlayHarder]

Apparently I, or the book, was wrong. Nice find playharder.

Being that Calgary is the heart of the Canadian oilpatch, I knew we were one of the top 3 suppliers, but behind Saudi Arabia for sure. Funny when talking about continental oil supplies, not many realize that the oilsands in N. Alberta possess reserves that are second only to Saudi Arabia in the world - enough to power the NA economy for a long, long time. Unfortunately, producing Middle East reserves involve opening a valve and letting the oil flow while most NA reserves require some form of artificial lift to get it to surface.
So really, you're assessment of Middle East reserves being important to keep prices down is right on. We (Canada, USA & Mexico) have lots of oil & gas, it's just more expensive to get out of the ground (plus we have those pesky enviromental regulations that require us to keep it clean).

[shamrockpow]

Quick question for Blurred:
Do you realize that our infant mortality and under 5 year mortality rates are about 2-3% higher than other large developed nations (UK, Germany, Japan, Canada, France, Spain, Italy) and more than 4% higher than Sweeden? If we could cut infant mortality by 2% that would save something like 8000 infants lives per year. If George Bush was really about a "culture of life," don't you think that some of that $200 billion for Iraq could have gone into our public health infrastructure? Or do the lives lost to terrorist attacks somehow count 10x as much as a baby who dies b/c his mother couldn't afford to stay in the hospital more than one day after giving birth?

[Blurred]

Quick question for Blurred:
Do you realize that our infant mortality and under 5 year mortality rates are about 2-3% higher than other large developed nations (UK, Germany, Japan, Canada, France, Spain, Italy) and more than 4% higher than Sweeden? If we could cut infant mortality by 2% that would save something like 8000 infants lives per year. If George Bush was really about a "culture of life," don't you think that some of that $200 billion for Iraq could have gone into our public health infrastructure? Or do the lives lost to terrorist attacks somehow count 10x as much as a baby who dies b/c his mother couldn't afford to stay in the hospital more than one day after giving birth?

No, I don't neccessarily agree with this whole "culture of life" bullshit. (yes, I do disagree with Bush on some things)
You're talking to the wrong guy. I'm neither pro-life or pro-choice. I'm pro abortion. Overpopulation is our biggest problem if you ask me.

Do I think we should spend money to promote making the gene pool weaker? No, like you pointed out, look at the UK, Germany, Japan, Canada, France, Spain, Italy.......

It's called accountability. If you want socialism, move elsewhere.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for some woman that can't afford to be in the hospital. She has no business having a baby, let alone bringing the kid into poverty, and then sucking off of the rest of us that work and having us support her and her kid with welfare and food stamps. The kid prolly then has a 50/50 chance of becoming a criminal since that is usually spawned out of hopelessness and poverty.

What you just proposed to me was the firestarter for so many fucking problems I don't even have the time to cover them all.

[mr_gyptian]

-edit- nevermind, found it.

Fun oil fact: the U.S. gets 60% of it's oil from Canada. We get less than %20 from the middle east. The middle east's role in our oil policy is soley to keep the market supplied with enough oil to keep the prices low.

I am fully aware of this. However the countries with the proven oil reserves are in Saddam's former neighborhood and he could have embarassed any one(Iran notably excepted) of them in a war. If you think the $55 is expensive. A Saddam initiated war against the Arabian peninsula would have been astronomical.

Greatest Oil Reserves by Country, 2003
2002
rank Country 2003 proved reserves
(billion barrels)
1. Saudi Arabia 261.7
2. Iraq 115.0
3. Iran 100.1
4. Kuwait 98.9
5. United Arab Emirates 63.0
6. Russia 58.8
7. Venezuela 53.1
8. Nigeria 32.0
9. Libya 30.0
10. China 23.7

The above stat is what Mr. Buckley is referring to.


Oh, and surprisingly France is once again coming to Yassir Arafat's aid. some jokes just write themselves.

[FNG]

I ride the bus, use a blanket more than the heater, and keep my electric bill low. I couldn't give a fuck less about gas prices. It's still way cheaper here than it is in Europe or Canada.

[shamrockpow]

No, I don't neccessarily agree with this whole "culture of life" bullshit. (yes, I do disagree with Bush on some things)
You're talking to the wrong guy. I'm neither pro-life or pro-choice. I'm pro abortion. Overpopulation is our biggest problem if you ask me.

Do I think we should spend money to promote making the gene pool weaker? No, like you pointed out, look at the UK, Germany, Japan, Canada, France, Spain, Italy.......

It's called accountability. If you want socialism, move elsewhere.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for some woman that can't afford to be in the hospital. She has no business having a baby, let alone bringing the kid into poverty, and then sucking off of the rest of us that work and having us support her and her kid with welfare and food stamps. The kid prolly then has a 50/50 chance of becoming a criminal since that is usually spawned out of hopelessness and poverty.

What you just proposed to me was the firestarter for so many fucking problems I don't even have the time to cover them all.

I'm not talking about the mother, I'm talking about the child. Issues of socialism, accountability, etc are kind of irrelevant if you're talking about a child who was born 20 hours ago.

"Jeez kid, we'd love to make sure you're breathing right and all that, but you gotta start to take responsibility for your actions sometime and that time is now." - if you can't see what's fucking wrong with your statement then you're beyond hopeless.

[up an down]

Oh, and surprisingly France is once again coming to Yassir Arafat's aid. some jokes just write themselves.

yep,, here in the usa we just come to the aid of central and south american fascists, the family of the shah of iran, philipino dictators and the like.. a HUGE difference

[Blurred]

I'm not talking about the mother, I'm talking about the child. Issues of socialism, accountability, etc are kind of irrelevant if you're talking about a child who was born 20 hours ago.

"Jeez kid, we'd love to make sure you're breathing right and all that, but you gotta start to take responsibility for your actions sometime and that time is now." - if you can't see what's fucking wrong with your statement then you're beyond hopeless.

Oh, please. I was stating that you'd never have that problem if people were responsible. As far as the kid goes, that scenario never happens in my state, because in need of emergency care, it's illegal to refuse it.

[basom]

Oh, please. I was stating that you'd never have that problem if people were responsible. As far as the kid goes, that scenario never happens in my state, because in need of emergency care, it's illegal to refuse it.

blurred, your alias is showing, zip up your fly.

[13]

yep,, here in the usa we just come to the aid of central and south american fascists, the family of the shah of iran, philipino dictators and the like.. a HUGE difference

Or more recently, the Contras (thank Ollie), Saddam (thank Rummy), and Usama hisself (CIA by ISID proxy).

mr_g,

Arafat staying alive is a "good" thing, and I use that term loosely, because he is a former terrorist who appears to have softened his stance a bit. I'm sure there are some serious hard-liners in the PLO waiting in the wings or making moves right now to replace him during his "medical exile." In his absence things could get waaaaay dicey if a power struggle breaks out.

[Blurred]

blurred, your alias is showing, zip up your fly.

Thanks angry basom....isn't this fun?

[basom]

i'm not angry, i'm happy in my thinking that this thread is a piece of shit.

[shamrockpow]

Oh, please. I was stating that you'd never have that problem if people were responsible. As far as the kid goes, that scenario never happens in my state, because in need of emergency care, it's illegal to refuse it.

And if Osama was a responsible human being we wouldn't have 9/11. Try coming back to the real world. And plenty of infants die that don't have to in Colorado for two reasons:
1. Mothers don't come in (b/c they don't have insurance and don't understand the situation). A lot of these people are undercounted in our statistics b/c they don't speak english.
2. Sure you provide emergent care, but preventive care can be much more important. Can you imagine not providing vaccines to American children and then making the excuse - "well, we will treat Polio, Smallpox, Measles, etc. if you come into the hospital." If we gave new mothers a night or two of observation in the hospital we could save a lot of innocent lives (my original point) - unfortunately our country's first priority is to spread "democracy" with the sword and the blood of 15,000-100,000 Iraqis.

PS: what's the difference between a ferret and a mongoose?

[mr_gyptian]

I ride the bus, use a blanket more than the heater, and keep my electric bill low. I couldn't give a fuck less about gas prices. It's still way cheaper here than it is in Europe or Canada.

matches rather than lighters. That's the spirit man.


up and down. for the hundredth time on this board(at least). I do not support the US government's former strategy of containment. To my knowledge, Pinochet had to go to Spain for treatment. The US was operating under an anything but communism policy. Where France is concerned. Is it an anything but Israel policy?

I realize you operate under the "One man's terrorist is another man's revolutionary" credo. for chrissakes, Arafat is worth hundreds of millions of while "his people" starve.

[mr_gyptian]

Or more recently, the Contras (thank Ollie), Saddam (thank Rummy), and Usama hisself (CIA by ISID proxy).

mr_g,

Arafat staying alive is a "good" thing, and I use that term loosely, because he is a former terrorist who appears to have softened his stance a bit. I'm sure there are some serious hard-liners in the PLO waiting in the wings or making moves right now to replace him during his "medical exile." In his absence things could get waaaaay dicey if a power struggle breaks out.

we supported contra's fighting communist Sandinistas

we supported Saddam against Iran.

We supported Afghani's against the Soviet Union.

If you get the chance some day, ask an Afghani how much help they got from the Arabs in fighting the Soviets. It was not much at all. There's a great article on this by Jeff Goldburg in the New Yorker about a year ago. So to say we supported Osama is stretching it quite a bit.

Arafat, former terrorist. did he die and I missed it on the wire?

[FNG]

Arafat is a motherfucker. Palestine needs to get a new "leader" like a crackhead needs crack. Arafat - and the PLO - is the only thing keeping Israel/Palestine from becoming two seperate states. If he was gone, the US would probably be the first to recognize Palestine and start the domino effect in Europe.

[up an down]

matches rather than lighters. That's the spirit man.


up and down. for the hundredth time on this board(at least). I do not support the US government's former strategy of containment. To my knowledge, Pinochet had to go to Spain for treatment. The US was operating under an anything but communism policy. Where France is concerned. Is it an anything but Israel policy?

I realize you operate under the "One man's terrorist is another man's revolutionary" credo. for chrissakes, Arafat is worth hundreds of millions of while "his people" starve.

i wasn't even thinking of pinochet..... and no i do not operate under the "One man's terrorist is another man's revolutionary" credo. as usual you dont understand.. arafat probably deserves to be imprisoned till the end of his life, but you seem to spend your life citing examples of horrible behavior by foreigners and foreign administrations, while believing that shitty behavior that originates from usa government and usa business action and policies is golden..... in other words there is a huge streak of hypocrisy in the vast majority of your posts