mid-season Bandit Launch

[dude_le_skibum]

rumor has it that a new bandit line comming out mid-winter or late season. anybody got word ?

[White Chocolate]

rumor has it that a new bandit line comming out mid-winter or late season. anybody got word ?

rumor has it that you will probably end up skiing waaaaaaaaaay more than working this winter. any truth to this?

as for a midseason launch, i don't know anything.

[dude_le_skibum]

me...eh, i wish.... we'll see how thing goes. i think i ate a bit more then my share of the pie last year....i doubt i'll be skiing at all. (mt-tremblant doesn't count as skiing....its like going to the gym....)i have to work. we'll reevaluate in march if we go ride or surf....

[meatdrink9]

there is truth to the rumor. a maggot now is the main superdude rep guy for all of CO, UT, and WY. he's made mention of the boards several times. seems pretty stoked on em.

[summit]

The fabled B4 will finally be declassified?

[powderhound]

Here's what I got from a friend a while back (I edited the supersecret stuff out) after some speculation about the B4:

I went to our Rossi clinic the other night. The B4 is not a myth. It is actually the old B3, now called the B4. It is not new. But what is new, is the new B3. What they've done is made a B2.5. The dimensions of this ski is somewhere in between the old B2 and B3. Rossi felt that the dimensional difference between the 2 and 3 was to great. So they made something that would fit in between. By doing this, they had to make the old B3 the new B4, and the new B2.5 the new B3. These won't be out till January, I think.

Are you confused yet?

[Jumper Bones]

If people are stoked on the XXXX, then why does Rossi give them more of the same? They had an opportunity to release a superfat of their own that already has a sizeable buzz behind it (unlike Kahuna/Maiden, or Tabla Rasa, or like the Prophet), that people want.

Suitable course of action - B5, I guess.

I'd wondered why the telemark T4 was the equivalent of the B3...that made no sense, unless the T1 is the old Rebel...

[phUnk]

#1: All this "insider information" is, so far, nothing but new names and those don't mean shit. Somebody give us some numbers already.

#2: Rossi doesn't make a B4 (meaning a 100-ish mm Bandit) for the public because the current B4 (which only pros have) is race room. I wonder if the dualtec construction wouldn't hold up for a wider ski like that? I wouldn't be surprised. They don' call it dualcrap, dualcrack and dualcrush for nothing.

Also, who is "stoked on the XXXX" ? A bunch of wankers (myself certainly included) in an internet chatroom. That's not a market

[powderhound]

I wonder if the dualtec construction wouldn't hold up for a wider ski like that?

not unless you get the longest board with the extra weight, i mean metal in it

[splat]

I noticed another company (Atomic?) has a B5.
I think Rossi might do better with a C4 -
It'd be like an Explosive, only wider.

[Jumper Bones]

Also, who is "stoked on the XXXX" ? A bunch of wankers (myself certainly included) in an internet chatroom. That's not a market

Oh, come on. You KNOW there are more people out there than just in this board who would buy that level of equipment. It wasn't maggots alone that had Volkl selling out of its stock of Gotamas already, K2 its 189 Pistols, maggots alone buying the Spatulas, Iggies, etc. There is a sizeable and quite competent group of skiers out there that eats that equipment right up.

[jk]

There is a shop in Oslo, Norway, that has a pair of the raceroom B4,XXXX or what you like to call it. And they only want like 2000 usd. for them!
The text on their website translates: "Rossignol B4. Only two pairs in Norway, and we`ve got one of them. If you are more than dedicated (?), and have 2000 usd (15000 norwegian kroners) burning a hole in your pocket, you may call us.
Length:195
Radius: Good and wide
measurements:Unknown"

Oh, and they are also asking around 1100 usd for a pair of Spatulas, worst part is that there are enough wannabes that probably are willing to drop that kind of doh only to be able to look cool in Hemsedal (Norways equivalent of Aspen)....

[azzure]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with phunk on this one. Skis like the monster im103 are burley big mountain boards (similar to the XXXX) but don't seem to sell all that well. Just take a look online or hit a major resort shop and you'll see tons of them at great prices with no takers. Heck, even REI had problems selling all 194 B3's last year, so a true B4 would be even more difficult to sell.

[cj001f]

It wasn't maggots alone that had Volkl selling out of its stock of Gotamas already, K2 its 189 Pistols, maggots alone buying the Spatulas, Iggies, etc.

And how big were the production runs of 189 Pistols, Gotamas, Spatulas? Judging by most of the shop I've been to none of the above were "great" sellers - like most skis they finally sold out at the end of the season with typical end of season discounts. Maybe the shops and mfrs wised up and made less this year to improve the margin.

[phUnk]

Oh, come on. You KNOW there are more people out there than just in this board who would buy that level of equipment. It wasn't maggots alone that had Volkl selling out of its stock of Gotamas already, K2 its 189 Pistols, maggots alone buying the Spatulas, Iggies, etc. There is a sizeable and quite competent group of skiers out there that eats that equipment right up.

Gotamas & Pistols: Semi-soft, easy to ski & maximum size = 190ish minus the twinned tail.
Spatulas: Not long, stiff & ultra-demanding like a XXXX. Also, a money-loser.
Iggies: Not limited to only XXXX type skis. Also, they went out of business once.

Sure, a bunch of Maggots & the crew we usually ski with might like XXXX's. But, I maintain that there is not a sizeable group that would like the XXXX as it currently exists. It's a very long, fat & stiff ski. Stiff enough that it doesn't float in pow as well as you'd think, according to a local Rossi pro / AK veteran.

[Bandit Man]

I'm going to have to agree with PhUnk on this one...For some reason, skis like the PR sell out before Christmas at $600+ for many seasons in a row. Yet, as has been mentioned, Monster 103's and Big Stix 10.6' can be found a-plenty for near cost. Despite the concentration of truly Bad-Ass skiers, in places like this, the market for a true B4 has got to be minute.

I've always been curious why Volkl made it's mass-offered (or perhaps not so many en-mass) 100+ boards (Gotama) soft and twinned. People love 'em...like a PR on steroids they say...but it still isn't a 100+ V-Ex. And even at 190, with the twin, it isn't that long of a ski. And what about the G4? It has now been replaced by another twin, with a bit more sidecut, no laminate. Sounds like the Volkl version of the PR, but without robot graphics to make it so obvious.

I think companies are dancing on the line of stroking the ego of skiers with "skiable" gear, while continuing to promote to th consumer that the gear they are selling is purely for the skilled and elite (ie - "big mountain/pro level skis"). Hey, I'm buying into it too...but when it comes to a mass-marketed factor-team B4, it'll never fly.

[Jumper Bones]

When I had mentioned the Seth Pistol and Gotama as examples, I had meant this season's models, and not the previous ones. In each case, the models were stiffened up considerably. The reputations that you are mentioning of them being easy-to-ski, the masses can handle it, etc, were based off of those previous models, which were extremely soft and flexible.

With both of them, once the word got out that they'd finally grown a backbone, their sales (at least at the pro-form and shop level) have increased massively, to the point of their longest and stiffest models are the ones that have sold out.

Yes, previous models didn't sell as well, and could be found on wholesale lots all over the place. It will be interesting to see how the SP and Goat do at retail this year.

Good point on the Fischer 106 and iM103, but I would say in return that these companies don't market very much at all, and rely on word-of-mouth. They don't have the legendary status or rep that Volkl and K2 have (kind of like the big 3 car companies in America - sure there's others, but the ones with the biggest status out there are the big 3).

hmm...I'm having trouble finding the exact words for my argument here, sorry if things don't make much sense.

And yes Iggy went out of business...but they were trying to do the impossible - have a limited-production, limited-edition ski, for a mass-produced retail price. That isn't possible, and they found that out the hard way. That's why their prices for the same product are what they are today.

[Bandit Man]

With both of them, once the word got out that they'd finally grown a backbone, their sales (at least at the pro-form and shop level) have increased massively, to the point of their longest and stiffest models are the ones that have sold out.

Yes, previous models didn't sell as well, and could be found on wholesale lots all over the place. It will be interesting to see how the SP and Goat do at retail this year.

Good point, JB. I guess what I was attempting to articulate is that ski companies are starting softer and then testing the market to see how skis can be improved. I mean how many of us owned a pair of Blue Noodles at one point? So we bag on the PR, and a few years later Sallie makes a limited number of AK Rocket Labs and we bitch about the cost. It still doesn't change the fact that all the while, they are still selling large numbers of PR's to Joe-Skier, who never even thinks twice about engaging in ski gear banter with his peers. Joe skier doesn't care that they're soft...he just likes they way he skis on them.

And then you have the Maggots...We love stiff, long skis with little sidecut. This type of ski is in in direct conflict with what pleases Joe Skier, and since his type accounts for the larger majority, we lose. Slightly stiffer Got's and SP's are nice, but can clearly be labeled as a compromise between skis liked the Maggots and those sought afte by Joe Skier.

I mean, cummon...it's not like Volkl added 10-mm to the girth of the V-Ex and called it perfect...Now I'm rambling...

[splat]

There is a shop in Oslo, Norway, that has a pair of the raceroom B4,XXXX or what you like to call it. And they only want like 2000 usd. for them!
The text on their website translates: "Rossignol B4. Only two pairs in Norway, and we`ve got one of them. If you are more than dedicated (?), and have 2000 usd (15000 norwegian kroners) burning a hole in your pocket, you may call us.
Length:195
Radius: Good and wide
measurements:Unknown"

Oh, and they are also asking around 1100 usd for a pair of Spatulas, worst part is that there are enough wannabes that probably are willing to drop that kind of doh only to be able to look cool in Hemsedal (Norways equivalent of Aspen)....

Then you and mbs are gonna be bummed to hear that TeleRob just bagged a pair of 193 or 196 Hugo team rider 4X's from Natty for less than half of that.

Some pretty good opinions expressed here about the feasibility and demand for a B4 type ski. And interesting because, when you lay a Bro Model edge to edge and base to base with these Hugos, the dimensions are quite similar. But the those Rossis are some really stiff mofos.

[dude_le_skibum]

the b4 exists. i have one in my hands now .
i mesured it for you 132-100-125
my boss rode it all summer in SA.
dreamlike

[snorkeldeep]

i think its partially a question of ability, and also partially a question of preference. sure, there are a lot of people who want them just to say theyre on the team board, but shouldnt be skiing on something so stiff. For me, im just so freakin tall i torque the crap out of anything im on.. hence my preference for stiffer skis.

the first time i saw XXXXs was probably 5 years ago in whistler, and they looked ginormous at the time (certainly helped the awe factor that dan treadway was skiing them), but there are large stiff boards available to the general public now (iggys, db). i tend to agree with phunk - the market isnt really there. However since their not set up to be mass produced anyways, i think it would be cool for rossi/salomon etc. to do a custom version of the b4, ak lab, etc that is the team board at a price in line with its "race-room" construction and one or ten-off requests if thats actually whats happening. If people want to pay for them, let them.

[phattypowpow]

dude-le,

Thanks for the B4 beta but those dimensions look like a Scratch BC with an extra 10 mm at the tip/waist/tail. Is it really part of the Bandit liine? Any chance that it will be a mid-season release this year?

[wizard604]

the b4 exists. i have one in my hands now .
i mesured it for you 132-100-125

That's a lot more sidecut than the present B3. I wonder what the dimensions will be for the new B3? I have this year's B3's all mounted up and ready for action, a 95 waist is still pretty decent

[optics]

And yes Iggy went out of business...but they were trying to do the impossible - have a limited-production, limited-edition ski, for a mass-produced retail price. That isn't possible, and they found that out the hard way. That's why their prices for the same product are what they are today.

And there's the crux.

A small company with a specific specialty product focus needs to price to allow for a profit margin based on what it costs to make the ski. Iggy can clear a profit on their boards (if they sell) because that's their focus, they're not a distraction from their main line.

A large company which is otherwise pumping out mass numbers of consumer skis needs to pay the same direct overhead, but also has to account for the lost potential revenue they would otherwise have collected producing the mass-market skis.

If it cost salomon $300 to make a race room ski, but the time/resources associated with making that ski would otherwise have produced 10 PRs with a huge margin, they would need to price the race room boards to compensate - in order for it to be a feasible product. It wouldn't fly.

I would think making race room/pro boards is considered a brand marketing expense as much as anything. They make no money on them, they just get the name out in the right places. Their margin can't be anywhere near what it is for the broad market lines.

[splat]

the b4 exists. i have one in my hands now .
i mesured it for you 132-100-125
my boss rode it all summer in SA.
dreamlike

A lil more tip than the Bro...

Hey, you wanna hook up in Whistler this season?