They call it Baseball...

**Karl Stall** · 10-22-2004, 01:32 PM

I fucking LOVE the Cardinals. This town is shut down - nothing getting done - serious two-weeks of 'snow days'. It's GO TIME!

**AntiSoCalSkier** · 10-22-2004, 01:37 PM

Why does everyone keep talking about "the history" between the Cards and the Sox? They met in the World Series in 1946 and 1967. There can't be anyone left in either organization from those years. If they had met two or three years ago, it would be worth mentioning, but the last time was 37 years ago! Give it a rest, and talk about the teams today. (Or keep talking about the 86 Sox. I do enjoy watching the fans writhe in agony. Buckner. Buckner! BUCKNER!!!!!)

**The AD** · 10-22-2004, 01:37 PM

So, which Cardinals player is going to get their leg trapped in the tarp this year?

**basom** · 10-22-2004, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

So, which Cardinals player is going to get their leg trapped in the tarp this year?

no no. theis is the year of punching inanimate objects.

red sox ownerize pitchers who break hands. see big bad kevin 'i hate wall' brown.

the cards version is obviously Julian 'i hate phone' Tavarez.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/ima.../ph_123118.jpg

**Karl Stall** · 10-22-2004, 01:52 PM

Yeah, pretty funny about the phone punch, but I gotta say I love Tavarez - he is fucking nuts, but if he can shut down 4 innings in two must-win games, well he's alright. The guy's awesome.

Have the bean-towners tried to recruit Don Denkinger out of retriement? Is God going embody himself again in the right arm of Shilling? Wow, God must have a lot of time on his hands if he is going to spend his time pitching for Curt

I wish we had the fundage for Randy Johnson before the trade deadline this past summer.

**tuffy109** · 10-22-2004, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by AntiSoCalSkier

(Or keep talking about the 87 Sox. I do enjoy watching the fans writhe in agony. Buckner. Buckner! BUCKNER!!!!!)

wow, what happened in '87?

**basom** · 10-22-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by tuffy109

wow, what happened in '87?

thats when my buddys dad got the sweet ass season tickets i've been sitting in lately. the sox were terrible that year, and a lot of seats opened up at fenway after the 87 season.

**baldyboy** · 10-22-2004, 02:23 PM

buckner was '86, bro.
('87 was cards and twinkies.)

you just lost your right to vote.

- bob stanley

**AntiSoCalSkier** · 10-22-2004, 03:19 PM

Look, I'm just reaelly broken up after the Astros loss, OK?

Give me a break!!!!

**Dexter Rutecki** · 10-22-2004, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Karl Stall

4 games in Fenway? don't get ahead of yourself, my friend.

What, you really think the Sox will take it in four or five??

I was wondering today if the mayors of Boston and SL (I don't suppose I'd ever have heard of SL's mayor?) are doing one of those stupid betting things. You know, where Mumbles would bet 10 gallons of chowdah against...hmmm, what does SL have, anyway? Beer? Strippers? That big arch? Whatever. I hope they're not doing it (I think last year Bloomberg put some pastrami up against some crap from FL), but I did wonder today whether or not the local politicos were doing their best to get into the act.
Also, my mother (in Boston) told me today they're talking about banning alcohol sales in the city during games? Or not allowing bars (bahs) to show the games? Seriously??

**Woodsy** · 10-22-2004, 04:24 PM

BOSTON Oct 22, 2004 — Mayor Thomas Menino said he was considering banning alcohol sales near Fenway Park during the World Series, following rowdy celebrations of the Red Sox's league championship that turned deadly when a police officer shot a projectile into a crowd.

Menino planned to meet with bar and nightclub owners Friday and also said he would press colleges to expel students found guilty of criminal conduct in the melee.

"Since people won't accept responsibility, I, as mayor, will take it into my own hands," Menino said.

Emerson College student Victoria Snelgrove, 21, died Thursday, hours after being hit in the eye with what was designed to be a non-lethal projectile that would douse the target with a pepper-like spray. Her father expressed outrage at the city's response to her death.

Witnesses said Snelgrove was standing outside the ballpark when a reveler threw a bottle at a mounted police officer. Another officer fired the plastic, pepper-spray filled balls into the crowd, hitting Snelgrove.

Fifteen other people, including a police officer, suffered minor injuries in Boston's Kenmore Square neighborhood near Fenway Park after thousands of baseball fans spilled onto the streets to celebrate the Red Sox triumph Wednesday night at New York's Yankee Stadium. Small fires were set and fights broke out. Boston police reported eight arrests, mostly for disorderly conduct.

Menino said that to avoid a repeat of the rowdiness in his city, he was considering imposing the alcohol-sales ban through a state law never before used in Boston. The law lets him ban sale or distribution of alcohol "in cases of riot or great public excitement."

He said he may also ask bar and restaurant operators not to let television stations broadcast live scenes from inside their establishments during games, as at least one station did Wednesday.

Peter Martineau, manager of Boston Beer Works, across from Fenway Park, expressed sympathy for Snelgrove's family but blamed area college students for causing the problems.

"They all want to come out to the Fenway for the excitement," he said. "I don't think the remedy is banning bars and restaurants from serving liquor. If you can't serve beer or anything, why would people come out? It's a beer works."

Officials said the projectiles are not supposed to be aimed at people's faces, and Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said she would "firmly and emphatically accept responsibilities for any errors."

But, she continued, "I also condemn in the harshest words possible the actions of the punks (Wednesday) night who turned our city's victory into an opportunity for violence and mindless destruction."

The student's father, Rick Snelgrove, said angrily that she did nothing wrong. Standing outside the family home, he held up a photograph of his smiling daughter.

"What happened to her should not happen to any American citizen going to any type of game, no matter what," he said. "She loved the Red Sox. She went in to celebrate with friends. She was a bystander. She was out of the way, but she still got shot. Awful things happen to good people. My daughter was an exceptional person."

City officials had announced there would be a heavy police presence in Kenmore Square for the history-making victory by the Red Sox, who came back from 3 games to zero deficit to advance to the World Series.

The city had been caught understaffed when riots broke out after the New England Patriots' Super Bowl win Feb. 1, when one person was killed and another critically injured by a vehicle that plowed into revelers.

Ahh Bastan, drunks & trigger apy cops, what ethnicity is dominant there again.....

**HyRUPz** · 10-22-2004, 04:34 PM

Bahstan, not selling beah huh? Yeaah, friggin right!

May I say . . .

FUCKTHEASTROSFUCKTHEASTROSFUCKTHEASTROSFUCKTHEASTR OSFUCKTHEASTROSFUCKTHEASTROSFUCKTHEASTROSFUCKTHEAS TROS and,
FUCKTHEASTROS - arrogant Enronites, served.

Hee hee

**Woodsy** · 10-22-2004, 04:54 PM

Boston Won't Ban Liquor During Series

U.S. National - AP

By MARTIN FINUCANE, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON - The mayor backed off his threat of banning alcohol from around Fenway Park during the upcoming World Series (news - web sites) but more police will be inside neighborhood bars to make sure fans don't get too drunk or rowdy.

Mayor Thomas Menino had considered the ban after thousands of raucous fans took to the streets when the hometown Red Sox won the American League championship. One college student died after being hit in the eye by police firing pepper spray into the crowd, and more than a dozen others were injured.

After meeting for an hour Friday with about two dozen bar and restaurant owners, Menino backed down from the threat to invoke a rarely used state law to ban liquor "in cases of riot or great public excitement."

Instead, bar owners agreed to a series of restrictions, including not allowing patrons to line up outside to wait to get in, not allowing bars to become overcrowded or patrons to drink too much, and not allowing television crews to do live shots from inside bars. Authorities were worried that live television coverage of bar patrons encourages people to act out as they play to the cameras.

In addition, police will step up their presence inside bars near the ballpark and around the tourist hot spots of Faneuil Hall and the city's waterfront to enforce the agreed-upon restrictions.

The bar owners, who agreed to the measures, are "part of what we're trying to do to make sure the world sees Boston in a positive manner," Menino said.

Bar and restaurant owners had expressed outrage when Menino first floated the idea of banning alcohol sales around Fenway Park, where the Red Sox will go up against the St. Louis Cardinals in a best-of-seven World Series that begins Saturday.

After the meeting with the mayor, Patrick Lyons, who owns several nightclubs on Landsdowne Street across from the ballpark, said, "We're intent on having a good safe environment within the licensed premises" during the games.

"It was a great meeting. It was a very cooperative meeting. ... I think the outcome was a positive outcome and we're working together to do everything to keep the public safe," said Dana Van Fleet, owner of the Cask 'n' Flagon, a bar just outside the ballpark.

Both Lyons and Van Fleet blamed the disturbances in the streets on crowds who flock to the area, which is near a number of colleges, to celebrate after games, rather than patrons coming out of the nearby bars.

Several television stations, including WHDH-TV Channel 7, WCVB-TV Channel 5, WSBK-TV Channel 38 and WBZ-TV Channel 4, said they hadn't been doing live broadcasts from inside bars and didn't intend to do any.

"We have not been doing live shots in bars. So it's not a big issue for us. But we are going to study (Mayor Menino's) request and we're definitely going to look at our coverage to ensure that it doesn't incite any violence," said Ginny Lund, a spokeswoman for WHDH-TV.

Officials at other TV stations didn't immediately return messages seeking comment.

The meeting followed the death of an Emerson College student who was hit in the eye by a pepper spray-filled ball fired by a police officer. Victoria Snelgrove, 21, was fatally wounded in the post-game rowdiness outside Fenway Park following the Red Sox's series-clinching win over the Yankees.

**DaveTV** · 10-22-2004, 06:28 PM

And why do our Guvs always bet lobster? Rather lobsided - for Superbowl Rams/Patriots we put up clam chowder, a pot of lobsters, and a case each of Massachusetts-made Samuel Adams and Harpoon brew. St Louis countered with an Italian dinner of Missouri ingredients, washed down by wine and brew of the Show Me State. Please

...

**Karl Stall** · 10-22-2004, 09:42 PM

This thread is already highlighting the differences between our respective fan bases:

[East Coast Maggots - thought balloon] wow, let's discuss lame political sports bets and possible beer bans etc., maybe we can turn this into a flame war.

[Me, i.e. representative of heartland baseball - thought balloon] hmmm, I wonder whether we should activate Ankiel as a leftfhander to counter some solid left-handed Boston hitters...is Carpenter ready to pitch after his recent injury...how does the designated hitter rule help/hurt the Cards in this series?

**The AD** · 10-22-2004, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsy

BOSTON - The mayor backed off his threat of banning alcohol from around Fenway Park during the upcoming World Series

I'll guarantee this would have been one thing voters would definitely remember come election time!

**gonzo** · 10-22-2004, 10:09 PM

Karl, none of us know anything about your team, or where St. Louis is on a map for that matter. As the Sports Guy put it: "I didn't know there was a National League until 20 minutes ago."

My buddy who now lives in St. Louis told me on the phone today that St. Louis folks consider themselves "the best sports fans in the world." Not just the best baseball fans, the best sports fans. I found this amusing.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 10-22-2004, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Karl Stall

This thread is already highlighting the differences between our respective fan bases:

[East Coast Maggots - thought balloon] wow, let's discuss lame political sports bets and possible beer bans etc., maybe we can turn this into a flame war.

[Me, i.e. representative of heartland baseball - thought balloon] hmmm, I wonder whether we should activate Ankiel as a leftfhander to counter some solid left-handed Boston hitters...is Carpenter ready to pitch after his recent injury...how does the designated hitter rule help/hurt the Cards in this series?

Karl,[/clapping hands in front of Karl's face] follow along, we've been going over rotations and lineups for weeks with the Yankees, I think everyone's a bit burnt out. Not to mention exhausted from watching 14 inning games. I've been talking about some of this stuff with people today and yesterday, though--I like Francona going with Wakefield, Schill, and Pedro for 1-3, and really worry about Red Sox defense playing perfectly against the Cards bats. Not to mention that Ortiz will be on first for the NL games...
Everyone here is talking about it, just not online (here, anyway).
Besides, it's tough typing slow enough for you guys in the provinces to follow along...

**lph** · 10-22-2004, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by iceman

Years ago, before I was even married, my wife-to-be and I were travellling around the country for a few months. We got to St. Louis and after hitting the zoo and the bowling hall of fame we were pretty much out of things to do.

The Cards were playing an afternoon game against the Braves, but it was sold out and we couldn't find any scalpers. Figuring that the scalpers must hang out somewhere, we asked a couple walking towards the gate where we could find some tickets.

"Here, take ours," the guy said.
"Um, well, how much do you want?"
"Nothing. Take them. We have season tickets, we go to every game. Everyone should get a chance to see a game here, so take our tickets, please."
His wife nodded. "Please, take them. It's our pleasure."

So we took them. Great game, too.

That would NEVER happen in the Bean.

Still haven't figured out if they were the nicest people I ever met or if they were just retarded.

Amazing story Ice, and no I can not imagine that happening in Boston.

Here is the fenway version. Buddy of mine is a cop on the vineyard, comes to boston, wants to go to a game, walks up to one of the cops working the street, tells him who he is and asks him if he knows of a way to get a couple tickets. Cop gets on his radio and about 5 minutes later an undercover cop comes out of the crowd and hands him two tickets, 'Here you go, just took these off a scalper. Enjoy the game.'

**DaveTV** · 10-23-2004, 08:13 AM

Karl, if you think Cardinals fans are more baseball-knowledgeable than Red Sox fans, you are sadly mistaken.. FYI we sold out EVERY SINGLE GAME this year. The Cardinals did not(nor any other team). And being this is a ski forum, discussing detailed strategy minutiae would not be appropriate. Try THE REMY REPORT or any other of the many Red Sox forums where the most knowledgeable and passionate fans in the game talk turkey. And a few drunken fans who are out-of-town college students do not represent Red Sox nation. Now about those lobsters....

FROM THE MIAMI HERALD:
Posted on Sat, Oct. 16, 2004

ALCS GAME 3 | YANKEES AT RED SOX, 8:19 TONIGHT, CHS. 7, 29

Believing in their Bosox

The Red Sox trail 2-0 in the ALCS, but Boston fans have rallied behind their team like never before, clinging to a belief that this is finally their year.

BY KEVIN BAXTER

kbaxter@herald.com

BOSTON - Long-suffering Red Sox fans have waited 86 years for a World Series victory. So waiting three more days to see their team play the Yankees in the American League Championship Series really isn't that much of a hardship.

At least that's how Tim Keefe was feeling after Friday's game was postponed, leaving his tickets useless until Games 5 on Monday -- a game that won't be played if the Red Sox don't win this weekend.

''Oh, there is going to be a Game 5,'' said Keefe, still in his roof box seats high above the first-base line after most of the other fans had left. ``There's going to be a Game 7. [Curt] Schilling's going to come back and we're going to win.''

It would be hard to find anyone in New England who would disagree with that optimism. Despite temperatures in the mid-50s and rain a near certainty, fans in Red Sox jackets and caps began filling the streets around Fenway Park by 2 p.m., more than six hours before game time.

BOSTON ABUZZ

But you didn't have to come to the ballpark to see the Red Sox or experience Red Sox fever. All over Boston, massive billboards featuring the likenesses of Pedro Martinez and Manny Ramirez and the slogan ''Keep the Faith'' have been erected. Red Sox banners hang from apartment balconies, bumper stickers proclaiming ''The Yankees Still Suck'' are ubiquitous, and on one downtown overpass a traffic sign warning of a reverse curve has been altered to read ``Reverse the Curse.''

The tabloid Boston Herald, whose movie ads had been changed to carry pro-Red Sox messages Friday, wrapped the paper in a four-color Red Sox poster and carried 15 pages of ALCS coverage inside -- despite the fact no game had been played the day before. One feature was a half-page graphic that explained how Ramirez and Kevin Millar do their celebratory handshakes following home runs. The staid Boston Globe, meanwhile, handed out cardboard ''Go Sox'' placards and blue-and-red Mardi Gras beads with their paper.

Even the screen savers on the business center computers at the Marriott in suburban Quincy carry pro-Bosox messages.

''The fans here are just totally baseball fans,'' says outfielder Ellis Burks, who broke in with Boston, played for four other teams, then re-signed with the Red Sox as a free agent in February. ``Just rowdy, awesome crowds. They treat their players great and that's what you expect when you come to the Red Sox.''

Well, that and sellouts. Despite single-game ticket prices as high as $75, there hasn't been an empty seat at Fenway Park since May 2003, a string of 145 consecutive games. Ticket brokers were asking more than $700 for playoff tickets on eBay on Friday.

''Boston is a great town to come to,'' said Linda Griggs, a native of nearby Andover who arrived at Fenway around 3 p.m. wearing a white-and-red Red Sox home jersey and blue Red Sox cap. ``The atmosphere is just electric. That's why we come so early. To take part in it.''

Griggs, who has relocated to Albany, N.Y., came to the ballpark with neighbor Nancy Jones, a Yankee fan who won the $96 bleacher seats in an online lottery. But Jones made the mistake of securing the tickets with her Yankees credit card, which almost cost her the seats when the Fenway Park employee at the will-call window refused to honor it.

''The passion is incredible,'' Griggs said. ``You stay with your passion.''

DIEHARDS

Passion.

It's a word that comes up often when talking about the Red Sox and their fans. And it's something that can be felt on the field, says outfielder Dave Roberts.

''To say the least,'' said Roberts, who came to Boston following a midseason trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers. ``They're so knowledgeable and passionate. Their love for this team goes back generations, and until you wear a Red Sox uniform you don't really understand that concept.

``There are so many expectations of the fans for us. And we feel the same way about the fans.''

Said manager Terry Francona, also in his first year in Boston: ``Our fans are incredibly excitable and passionate about our ballclub. So if there's anything to yell about, they're going to get behind our ballclub more than any place I've ever seen.''

That, of course, has been the problem: Sox fans haven't had much to yell about in October since 1918. Keefe, however, is sure this is the year. So is Griggs -- and most of the rest of Boston.

''I always have faith. Without it, what have you got?'' Griggs said. ``The Red Sox rule.''

**gonzo** · 10-23-2004, 08:25 AM

or try the sons of sam horn board. pretty intense.

www.sonsofsamhorn.com

**Karl Stall** · 10-23-2004, 08:43 AM

Dave and Dex, and anyone else who doesn't know:

Peter Gammons, I believe is from Boston, and ESPN pays him for his knowledge of the game. He believes St. Louis to have the best fans in Baseball. Period. What else is there to say.

Boston = along with the Cubs Fans, the longest suffering - that does not mean the best or anything else.

New York - Don't even get me started - spoiled bandwagon chasers.

I'll restate what I said in the first post of the thread: "if you don't know about the deal with baseball in my town, then you're basically showing your ignorance of our pasttime."

**Karl Stall** · 10-23-2004, 08:48 AM

DaveTV - once more thing - it is without a doubt the most true statement in the world to say that St. Louis fans are widely regarded as the most knowledgeable baseball fans in the country.

Hell, just about every chica in this 'burb knows the game inside and out - think about that one. Hey, but we can't get any respect from you east coast elitists, so that's nothing new to us.

Let's play the game - hopefully we'll make it 3-0 for World Series victories against you folks.

**gonzo** · 10-23-2004, 08:55 AM

i'm ignorant! not only do i not know the deal with baseball in your league or your town, i don't know where your town is. "missouri"? wha?

i do know that i am driving there on tuesday to see game 3 because tickets are 1/3 what they are going for in fenway.

edit: Karl - we're not being elitist! we just don't know shit about St. L. because we have never had to. i really think you are reading more tension into this than there is.

edit 2: and there is ZERO in common between Cubs fans and Sox fans. ZERO.