relocation question

**ArmchairExtreme** · 10-29-2003, 04:04 PM

As some of you are aware, I am considering a job offer in New York City.

The negotiations are a bit nerve-racking, and we have agreed on most the stuff, although, my prospective employer balked at an important issue and I wanted to get some perspective.

They are offering a nice "signing bonus", but I also felt that I should be on their payroll for any/all househunting and physical moving time. This amounts to about one month that I would require them to pay me regular salary in addition to all moving costs and any expenses I incur related to the move. Of course we're not talking about them paying for security deposits/rent etc, just regular pay and all expenses.

He seemed surprised that I asked for this and re-iterated that they would pay all expenses, but I feel that the time I spent looking for a place to live and getting there should be considered time I was working as well. He wanted my salary to start after I got there.

Am I asking for too much? Anyone have any experience with being offered a job that involved long distance re-location?

**Woodsy** · 10-29-2003, 04:21 PM

AC,
Honestly full relo is a huge plus these days.

I think the signing bonus would cover the time spent moving.
My dad moved around a lot when I was younger & I never remember this being an option./

AH · 10-29-2003, 04:25 PM

Over here, you usually get a compensation for moving, plus they help you find a place. This is not payroll related however, it's in the signing bonus.

**homerjay** · 10-29-2003, 04:32 PM

Moving expenses I can see and have had that reimbursed. My first job out of college paid for one 'exploratory' trip to find living arrangements.

I find it unorthodox to get paid before you actually start working...signing bonus excluded, of course.

**PlayHarder** · 10-29-2003, 04:41 PM

I've gone through this a couple of times and the expenses were always part of the negotiations. The last time, I got what you're after - company put me on payroll a month prior to my starting to cover time spent looking for a home, travel expenses, etc, as well as a bonus to offset the differences in the housing markets from place to place and cover the cost of the move - I was happy where I was and told them this is what it'll take for me to move. Another time it was a cut and dried signing bonus - x amount of $ to cover everything - this job was a great opportunity for me and the company had a selection of people to pick from. I think it boils to who wants who most, if they want you, but you would be happy with or without them - you've got the power.
I hate the negotiation process, good luck in the decision.

**ArmchairExtreme** · 10-29-2003, 04:48 PM

Hmm...

Not getting the responses I hoped. I was thinking that the time I was getting there for them would be considered time was working for them.

Otherwise, I'm not getting paid for about a month. I am here to say that moving across the country is work. Yes, they are reimbursing me or paying for move on my behalf, but that's not money I would be paying out if it weren't for this job. I'm still deciding, but this could be a deal breaker for me. The signing bonus is a little more than a month's slary, but that should be extra dough for accepting the gig, not replacing money I would have been earning had I never accepted.

Hmm...

edit: Thanks, Playharder. At least it's good to see you got that and I'm not alone in left field wanting this.

Of course, they have lot's of options, and I would be fine if I don't do it, but they know me and want me to do this job. It's also nice that I'm dealing directly with the CEO and he doesn't need to run it by anyone.

**johannus** · 10-29-2003, 04:51 PM

Armchair,

Initial househunting expenses, limited of course, can be deducted on your individual income tax returns. In addition, this includes most, if not all of your moving expenses. Is the prospective employer covering the relocation costs on your behalf, or are you paying out of pocket and the company will REIMBURSE you for the expenses? It's minor, but that technicality can make a difference in terms of who reports the deductibility and/or the taxability of the reimbursement. It can screw you if it's not done right (some moving expenses can be considered taxable on your tax return, but if the company does not "Tax Protect" you for the additional incurrance of taxes on that relocation income, you could pay out of pocket for it...). Something to consider... something to ask...

It sounds like they are giving you a full relo. Getting paid for the interim period of the move is ... unique. As mentioned by others, the signing bonus may be the "in lieu of" payment for that purpose. I used to manage the internal tax issues of these types of moves and only saw this for currently employed folk and head honchos. That's not to say you aren't one of them...

Feel free to drop me an email with more details on the arrangement of your move and I can give you more details on some of the common pitfalls/oversights. But, I'm sure you/they have a good grip on these procedures. Who knows, you may be an accountant and I'm just telling you things you already knew!

hanjsATearthlinkDOTnet.

**Crinkle** · 10-29-2003, 04:56 PM

I think asking for the moving costs and expenses is not asking too much. But asking to be paid salary while not working is definitely out of the ordinary. I think I remember you saying that it was a much higher paying job than the one you are currently at. So, not getting paid for a month is pretty much off-set by the signing bonus and the higher pay. I say take it and run. Even if they dont pay for the expenses, still a decent deal since they are paying you more. That is unless you are looking for an out.

**Woodsy** · 10-29-2003, 04:59 PM

I think Mr. Johan wins the prize for most helpful, kickass, 2nd post ever.
& with the follow up of the e-mail

**johannus** · 10-29-2003, 05:00 PM

I'm a couple posts behind.. trying to catch up...

I agree with you, Armchair. A signing bonus is exactly that. A bonus incentive to GET YOU TO SIGN THE EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT! If they're not offering anything up and above that as incentive, it kinda goes against the whole idea. The relocation expenses is a separate beast on its own and they shouldn't be mixing those two hiring incentives. As you said if one falls short, it could be a deal breaker. You'd be in the same financial situation as if you were to stay in your current job, only difference being, you could be in a different city.

Good luck.

**ArmchairExtreme** · 10-29-2003, 05:03 PM

I worked for this company for 9 years from 87-96. Now, they want me to come back. I relocated for them several times in those years. It was always completely paid relocation time and all expenses paid. The money paid out on my behalf (directly to movers, plane tickets etc) was added onto my income at the end of the year, but reimbursements like hotels or meals were not.

I'm pretty sure I was able to claim almost all expenses associated- even the reimbursed funds not added as income- as tax-deductable.

**PlayHarder** · 10-29-2003, 05:15 PM

I don't think you're out in left field at all.

But then, I read the reviews on your last seafood feast and am fishing for an invite to the next one

Just kidding, just feel good about whatever decision you make.

**johannus** · 10-29-2003, 06:00 PM

Oh, so you have some healthy history there! Man, that just changes the whole negotiation situation! I definately think you've got the Ace in the back pocket on them.

Sounds like you've got this relo thing locked down so I won't blabber any more on that issue.

Maybe as a creative solution to the mthly loss in salary... see if they would provide you "tax protection" on the signing bonus that would be equal to your current, or future, monthly salary amount in after-tax dollars? This may require them to "up" your signing bonus, but I believe they still get the tax deduction on their corporate income tax return. AND, it kills 2 birds with one stone. Everyone is happy, you're in Manhatten enjoying a meal at the Union Square Cafe, sipping a cold one, eyeing a hottie across the way and then she walks over...

Again, best of luck. It's good to see people getting jobs, not losing them...

**ArmchairExtreme** · 10-29-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by johannus
Everyone is happy, you're in Manhatten enjoying a meal at the Union Square Cafe, sipping a cold one, eyeing a hottie across the way and then she walks over...

...and Mrs Chair gives me black eye...

heh. I like the "tax protection" angle. I could play that card if I have to.

**ArmchairExtreme** · 10-30-2003, 09:47 PM

They gave it to me.

I can't fuckin' believe the guy called me tonight and pretty much gave me every stinking thing I asked for.

Holy fucking shit. Now I have to live in New York City and completley kick ass at a new and totally challenging job.

I MISS MY MAMMY!!!

I will still get to go a few times before I leave, but

I MISS IT ALREADY!!

I might not even make the summit now. wah.

Dexter, I will call you when I'm coming for apt search.

Gulp.

All I can say now is:

HUGE POWDER YEAR COMING TO THE EAST!!!

Actually he will send out a formal letter and I will formally accept some time in the next few days.

Thanks to all who chimed in. We will tear it up in Vermont.

[/wipes tear for Mammy]

**Dexter Rutecki** · 10-30-2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by ArmchairExtreme
HUGE POWDER YEAR COMING TO THE EAST!!!

There will be no snow in the east this year. [/anti-jinx]

See ya soon, dude. I'll keep my ears peeled for ya--still the same time-frame we discussed?

**ArmchairExtreme** · 10-30-2003, 09:58 PM

Yes, Dex

I should out there looking in Dec for a Jan move in. Not the ideal time, but it never is. Thanks for your advice so far. He gave me a guaranteed parking spot in midtown

**johannus** · 10-30-2003, 10:05 PM

Armchair,

That is righteous. Congrats!

Let the good times roll....

**Big Tim** · 10-30-2003, 11:15 PM

Congrats ACE.

**ulty_guy** · 10-31-2003, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by ArmchairExtreme
They gave it to me....
HUGE POWDER YEAR COMING TO THE EAST!!!

by the sounds of the job, it's not going to be the type of powder that you're used to

congrats, nyc is a killer place to live. consider brooklyn.

**Aldo** · 10-31-2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by ArmchairExtreme
He gave me a guaranteed parking spot in midtown

Damn, you do have pull, way to close.

Congratulations. Make sure to post all of the details on the new location. Cause it sure we be nice to have a parking spot in Midtown.

.

Looking forward to sampling the goods!
And yes, the East will deliver.

**gincognito** · 10-31-2003, 10:32 AM

Wow.

Congrats, man. You are obviously the man is some capacity. I'm sure it'll work out for the best.

See you somewhere on the right side.

Sick and ashamed and happy (and there's plenty here who will show you a good time),
d.

**meatdrink9** · 10-31-2003, 12:31 PM

Congrats AC. I've been following these threads seeing what you would do. I moved from the mountains last year and "quickly pulled a meatdrink" as funken put it.

New York is about a million times better than STL though. I could live in NYC anyday if the right job came along. That place kicks ass. It's got so much going on all the time. A very inspiring place to be. Remember to use that new higher salary to buy plane tickets west whenever you can slip away.

**road trip** · 10-31-2003, 12:39 PM

Congrats, dude! If you get here before the TGR show...

.... maybe Aldo won't get a parking ticket!!

For the record, I've never heard of them fronting one month's salary for relocation. Next time I'm job hunting, I'll request it and then cite this thread!

(and then pretend that I'm not me so that they won't say, "wait a second! are you on this board all day??")

Again, congrats! Looking forward to hearing how it goes IF you decide to accept...

**Buster Highmen** · 10-31-2003, 12:39 PM

Wahl, congrats ACE.
There's nothing like being in demand in your profession.

Now, we'll be expecting you to wing your way west to compensate for the long hours in the slog for success.

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