f-stop packs

[wren]

I'm at the office now, but I'll try and fit the skins in the front pocket this evening. I'll grab a comparison shot next to my heli-pro as well.

And ya, Hop you're right, they did kinda drop the ball on the front pocket thing. Looking at my heli-pro (an older model), they have a wide front pocket with neoprene/elastic-type sides which expand if a large blade is put in there. That pocket also has a flap with buckle access instead of a vertical waterproof zipper. Perhaps it's something they can figure out for the 2nd version. This isn't a pure ski pack though, so perhaps the outside sealed pocket with the waterproof zipper is there to make it more flexible for other uses like hiking or mountain biking or something. I'm still a happy guy. Being able to have my gear protected like it is as well as easily accessible is something I've never had, and the process to actually get the camera out, take photos, and put it back in is at least 3 times as fast versus my heli-pro, so this will mean more photos and less frustrated friends. If there is indeed a Tilopia BC coming out soon that sounds pretty sweet, hopefully they can get it to market a little quicker than this one. I remember contemplating a Tilopia around this time last year but after talking to Saaka and him mentioning a smaller pack was in the works I was prepared to wait until spring...which turned into early summer, then late summer, then late September.

[saaka!]

hey guys as I just emailed someone about this. Probe, shovel blade and handle - one zipper access.

That pocket was never sold as an avalanche shovel pocket, if you saw that it was, it is a mistake. Skins and jackets is what it is for. Obviously you can use it for anything but its idea is for flat and foldable items.

If you think we dropped the ball. think about that when you unhooking your shovel from the side tension straps, then opening the back pocket for your blade and then fetching your probe from where ever you put it and then removing it from its bag.

All the while someones under the snow wondering where his bros are.

Who is dropping the ball now?

Sorry for the dramatics just making a point and I'm sleepy.

In all seriousness... keep your stuff together and easily accessible. It makes sense and your buddies will appreciate it.

[saaka!]

Also this whole idea that your shovel and probe and handled are trapped under all your other gear and you have to dig for it.... is a little much.

Shovel sits out side edge of front panel.

Probe sits on the inside side wall of side panel.

Handle sits also inside edge of the side panel.

They will be sticking there heads up waiting to be grabbed.

There is no green 'P' button on our packs. The user is still required to take some responsibility when using it.

[eug]

A comment out of the left field... Laptop sleeve in Tilopa works pretty well to separate steel shovel from the camera stuff when not using ICU.

[jon turner]

Just got an email that the Loka I ordered 2 days ago has been shipped? That's surprising as per previously mentioned email, I was told there wouldn't be anymore available until November and likely mid/late-November. Pretty psyched if they had a few extra in the warehouse to get one to me early or perhaps the latest shipment got to their warehouse earlier than expected. Sweet!

[hop]

hey guys as I just emailed someone about this. Probe, shovel blade and handle - one zipper access.

That pocket was never sold as an avalanche shovel pocket, if you saw that it was, it is a mistake. Skins and jackets is what it is for. Obviously you can use it for anything but its idea is for flat and foldable items.

If you think we dropped the ball. think about that when you unhooking your shovel from the side tension straps, then opening the back pocket for your blade and then fetching your probe from where ever you put it and then removing it from its bag.

All the while someones under the snow wondering where his bros are.

Who is dropping the ball now?

Sorry for the dramatics just making a point and I'm sleepy.

In all seriousness... keep your stuff together and easily accessible. It makes sense and your buddies will appreciate it.

Also this whole idea that your shovel and probe and handled are trapped under all your other gear and you have to dig for it.... is a little much.

Shovel sits out side edge of front panel.

Probe sits on the inside side wall of side panel.

Handle sits also inside edge of the side panel.

They will be sticking there heads up waiting to be grabbed.

There is no green 'P' button on our packs. The user is still required to take some responsibility when using it.

Saaka!, I'm the guy you emailed. I don't know what you carry in your pack when you're skiing but I carry spare gloves, spare goggles, a little "10 essentials" bag (w/ first aid, CPR mask, rutschblock cord, space blanket, etc.) skins, food, maybe a spare layer, water, maybe a rope. It looks kinda like this, but worse:





That's all going around/on top of my shovel blade, which (like Wren's) protrudes into the middle and does not rest flat against the side of the pack.

When I open up the main compartment to get at my avy gear, I'm going to have to dig a bit, potentially untangle some stuff, and probably pull a bunch of it out when my avy gear gets ripped out. Then I need to either pack it back up before I start digging (bad use of time) or risk losing it as it gets buried/blown away (obviously less bad, but certainly not ideal). The first pack I used for BC skiing was an old Dana Designs "dumb rucksack" that didn't have a dedicated front organizer pocket, and the above shitshow situation happened in an emergency. All's well that ends well, but very next day I went out and bought a real BC pack with real organization so I'd never have to worry about that again.

You said this pack was designed for backcountry skiing and snowboarding. Every other pack I've used that's been designed for BC skiing (BD covert; Indigo Elvn, Rhide, Tahoma; BCA Stash BC, Alp 40, Valhalla; DaKine; Osprey and Arc'Teryx have had some sort of front "avy tool organizer" pocket/section, which often looks a lot like the front pocket of the Loka. You can see where I may have been confused.

You're right, users have to take responsibility for their actions. Therefore, I'm not using the Loka for BC skiing because I don't like how it organizes my safety gear, which IMO is much more important than how it organizes my camera gear.

[/counter dramatics]

Now that that's over, what can you tell us about the Tilopa BC? Will I be able to fit a standard size shovel and 320cm probe in the front pocket?

[saaka!]

same pocket as previous design. Again not designed for Avy shovel or probe but fits 'some' shovels.

No info on Tilops BC for a bit.

[hop]

Ok, I'll check out one of the current tilopas (or if someone has one, can they check it out? I won't be near one for a month) and see if my gear fits. Fingers crossed...

FS: one green Loka w/ small ICU, NWT. Looking to get back what I put in $263.36.

[jon turner]

I got my Loka w/small ICU a couple weeks ago and took it out this weekend. Here's some shots of it loaded up if anyone's interested. I like it a lot. It fits really well and carries the weight nicely. I packed it pretty full and thought the shovel/probe/handle were easily accessible with moving the couple layers I stuffed in on top, but I could see some preferring to be able to see/grab their avi gear without having to move anything.

Skins in front pocket. It's a tight fit, and I'm not sure if my Lhasa skins will make it, but my ~95mm waist skins fit fine.


Pack stuffed full. There is a shell and R1 fleece on top of the shovel handle.


Pack with only shell and fleece pulled out. The shovel and other avi gear is easily grabbed from here.


Back of pack open.

[hop]

I finally got home and checked out the Loka that's been waiting for me.

That front pocket is plenty big enough to hold skins for 189 Pontoons, so I imagine it will hold skins for Lhasas.

It looks to be an amazing pack and I wish I could keep it. Saaka! If the front pocket of the Tilopa BC is not already big enough to hold a normal shovel and probe, please please please make it big enough.

[saaka!]

From the mail I sent answering your same question/request.

"...There are a lot people who a spend a lot of the time in the backcountry with it already, using it with great success. The Tilopa takes more than a few different shovels. Here is 3 shovels the Tilopa pocket it works with...

http://www.ortovox.com/shovel/professional-alu-ii-1 - Dan Carr
http://www.genuineguidegear.com/gear/shovels/avitech - Colin Adair
http://www.backcountryaccess.com/index.php?id=63 - Christian Pondella

i am not suggesting these 3 guys are more hard core than you but they practically live in the backcountry in the winter.

If you expect to fit shovel, handle and probe in that one pocket, I will tell you now that our packs are not designed for your needs.

I am sorry for you its a killer, that bag is great as is. We stand behind our product. If you would like to return feel free..."

[hop]

Thanks. Got that email and sent back a response w/ more questions and some photos/suggestions.

Might as well ask one of those questions here too:

Where do those guys keep their shovel handles and probes? In the inside of the pack w/ the rest of their crap, or lashed to the outside, or ???

[wren]

Hop, I'm sure this is of interest to you.

Tilopa BC review

What I am surprised at is how similar is size the Tilopia BC is to the Loka. Yes it is deeper, but my thinking is if the pack isn't full, cranking the straps down would make it similar depth to the Loka, and when you really wanted to carry more, you could. There don't appear to be weight specs listed by F-Stop (I asked Dan if he had any info on them), but the old Tilopia is curiously listed as weighing less than the Loka. If this is the case again, I'll probably return my Loka.

Saaka, could you chip in here?

[hop]

I just sent my Loka back yesterday and am still waiting to find out where Tilopa BC people put their shovel handles and probes.

Edit: Sounds like Dan keeps everything inside the main compartment a la Loka.

[saaka!]

Sorry have been all over the place these days... not much TGR time...

The weight difference is because the old Tilopa is a much simpler pack. The weights being compared, not sure where you saw it... but I am pretty positive its the old weight of the Tilopa. The new Tilopa has been beefed up. The base, the TPU board grip, snow edge protection, ski straps... etc. If you want lighter weight packs... wait out the new Satori.

That bag basically went the opposite direction and has been made for nature landscape friendly rather than backcountry shred friendly. In the grand scheme the weights are very little and I really doubt you would notice. And if you do... do ten push ups in the morning everyday. This should help.

As for size difference, Dan pretty much nailed... sorry gotta run, will post later.

[saaka!]

Have a few more minutes...

As Dan points out the physical size is not huge but comes in the girth of the bag. Like he hints the Loka is designed for smaller loads, if you weigh your Loka down with a full L icu it will not be comfortable. If you do this with a Tilopa... its easy breaazy.

Loka is ideal for guys who more or less part of the action and like to get dirty. The Tilopa is more along the lines of the serious photog who is out there to bring home images because he wants/needs to get paid.

There for he might pack every lens and doo-dad to make sure he is prepared.

I'll say it again... the loka is bag made for shredding with camera gear. it is a much as ski bag as camera bag.

Also the bags are left open to your use and how you feel they can work for you. What they have been designed for does not mean that is there sole purpose... Use them as you will.

i personally do not like riding with bags bigger than they need to be. I lean towards the Loka everytime, unless I really need the space for a bigger bag.

[hop]

I'll say it again... the loka is bag made for shredding with camera gear. it is a much as ski bag as camera bag.

[saaka!]

Thanks Adam.

Good luck with your mission.

[hop]

Thanks Adam.

Good luck with your mission.

Thanks Ian. The quest for a solid ski/camera bag continues. Don't worry, chances are I won't find a better carrying camera bag before you guys redesign Loka 2.0 (or the Tilopa "B.C.") so they can handle avy gear in a responsible user-friendly manner. When you do, I'll be first in line.

[Tap]

I was out today for my first deep pow mission of the year with my Loka.

Satisfied darn good. Loved the top open pocket and all the space. Including:

- small camera block not even close to stuffed
- shovel blade behind block
- probe alongside block/pack frame edge
- splitboard skins
- down sweater
- goggles
- coffee thermos
- water bottle
- 2 pbb&j
- safety kit
- random parts
- and room for a few tall boys



rides great. works for me so far, fo sho'.

[jce338]

FWIW, I had the buckle that holds the shoulder strap up break on my Tilopia while hiking in the Presidentials during the October Nor'easter. It' sucked. I was surprised because of all of the talk about how well made the packs are.

[saaka!]

Hi, that does suck, but realize that even though the buckle comes on an F-Stop pack and is chosen by us to be used, it is not directly made by F-Stop.

It is made by the most reputable plastics manufacture going and is why we choose them. They are the same buckles used on most high-end bags.

Did you contact customer support for replacement?

[smmokan]

Saaka- do you have any product shots of the small and medium ICU's, or does anyone else? I'm looking for something to fit inside an existing pack, and they both seem like they could be ideal. If it helps, I need it to fit a Canon 50D, 4" wide angle zoom lens (likely attached), another 4" zoom, and my Canon 70-200 f4L.

[jon turner]

Dan Carr's blog post shows the S,M,L next to each other, not filled, but you can see all the interior compartments. From my experience with the small ICU, that might fit, but it would be very tight. The medium looks like a better fit from Carr's photos.

http://dancarrphotography.com/blog/2...-tilopa-fstop/

[saaka!]

Hi this link should work, but it is not working for me right now(i have selective Chinese internet).

http://fstopgear.com/images/pi_10/icu/

Is has a bunch if ICU images with gear.

also the medium is very popular and will sell out again. If that's the one your after, I would get on it before Xmas.