Sad News in Today's Issue of the Journal Science

[Lane Meyer]

The question is - in our lifetimes, will global warming mean more snow in areas that are borderline (Taos, Squaw, Whistler) or will it translate to a loss of all snow there and a transition to purely rain precipitation events?

So sad....

(I can't link to the Science article, as it is pwd protected...)

BBC Story

Geophysical Research Letters Abstract

West Antarctic glaciers speed up


Eventually the ice will make its way out into the ocean
Many glaciers in West Antarctica have substantially increased their rate of shrinkage compared with the 1990s.
US-Chilean teams report to the journal Science that the glaciers are losing 60% more ice into the Amundsen Sea than they accumulate from inland snowfall.

They say the ice loss corresponds to an annual sea-level rise of 0.2mm, or more than 10% of the total global increase of about 1.8mm per year.

The study incorporates satellite data and measurements from aircraft.

It also shows the glaciers are moving faster. One, the Pine Island Glacier, has sped up by about 25% over the last 30 years.

Bob Thomas, who is attached to the US space agency's (Nasa) Wallops Flight Facility and one of the authors on the Science report, cautions that the observed changes apply to only a short time period.

It is too early, he says, to tell if the accelerated thinning is part of a natural cycle or is a sign of a longer-term change. "Continued observation is important," he added.


Amundsen Sea glaciers are fracturing as they race along
And Eric Rignot, a study participant from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, said: "The rates of glacier change remain relatively small at present... But the potential exists for these glaciers to increase global sea level by more than one metre.

"The time scale over which this will take place depends on how much faster the glaciers can flow, which we do not know at present."

A major factor will be the behaviour of the huge ice shelves that the glaciers flow into before reaching the sea.

This has been illustrated by a separate piece of research published earlier this week in Geophysical Research Letters.

It demonstrated how glaciers on the Antarctic Peninsula once bounded by the Larson B shelf, which collapsed in 2002, are now flowing significantly faster into the Weddell Sea.

[SLCFreshies]

Hey, it's too early to tell if this is from us or from some sort of natural climate change. So lets keep our gas-guzzling SUVs until we know for sure!

[Game Over]

Nothing really new here--

The theorys that I have read in class (taken from stydying Ice core samples) say that during a big melt year, the fresh water from the melting icecaps in Antartica shut down the Atlantic current and cool Europe by 10-15 degrees, and that this flucuation would change back and forth, from melt to cool in a very short time of 2-5 years.

[Lane Meyer]

You mean, sort of like this:

http://jesusrocks.no.sapo.pt/fotos/dayaftertomorrow.jpg

I saw this in Bangkok (ironic) this June, and it was suprisingly rooted in semi-real pseudoscience....

[dubu]

As much as I would like to blame SUV's etc 100% for global warming, I dont think thats the case. there are many ice core camples that show earth does a thaw heat cycle, and we are on the way up..

[Game Over]

I thought that flick was suposed to be fake!?!? Like Dante's Peak bad.

[El Kabong]

I read a review of it that asked some real climatologists whether the scenario was feasible or not.

One of them said that only way it could work would be if you could repeal all three laws of thermodynamics.

[vinzclortho]

no way dude, the part when the helicopter freezes in mid air that was ill.

OH, and when they have to race the cold to get back into the library...that could happen..

on the subject of SUV's, I have noticed after recently moving to SoCal that 83% of the population here drives a very large SUV and most of them drive solo aka not carpooling. I guess that rugged outdoorsy feeling of being able to conquer muddy trails and go where you want, like the top of a mountain in a jeep ad comes in handy when going to get coffee and the paper. then again what do I know, I don't even have a car yet. and the rates on those giant SUV things are MIGHTY attractive.

[Lane Meyer]

I read a review of it that asked some real climatologists whether the scenario was feasible or not.

One of them said that only way it could work would be if you could repeal all three laws of thermodynamics.

Yup, you pretty much nailed it right there. Recipe for pseudoscience film:

Ingredients:

*1 old-ish journal article surmising ice-core data as a several-steps removed proxy for long-term global climactic trend generalizations stating that the thermohaline circulation in the Atlantic ocean turns "on and off" (which it probably does, over thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years)
*Several hollywood screenwriters who undoubtedly never made it past Geology 101 in junior college
*Allow writers access to article, whereupon they will make of it their own conclusions of "facts" of "science" that they will then write up as the central theses of their screenplay
*Hundreds of millions of dollars for some pretty cool special effects
*Half-baked acting


Bake at 350 degrees for several months, and the eventual result is a movie on par with Armaggedon for watchability. Entertaining? Yes. Rooted in fact? Questionable.

[Game Over]

*1 old-ish journal article surmising ice-core data as a several-steps removed proxy for long-term global climactic trend generalizations stating that the thermohaline circulation in the Atlantic ocean turns "on and off" (which it probably does, over thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years)

Ummm dude, hundreds of thousands?? ok I jumped the gun with 2-5 years, but hard evidence exists that shows the time it took for the change to occur has been as short as a decade and the time period the change was in effect was as short as a decade.

Is this the article you are talking about, from the Ocean and Climate Change Institute. seems reptubale to me.
http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/...hange_wef.html

edit--kant talk straight

[splat]

no way dude, the part when the helicopter freezes in mid air that was ill.

OH, and when they have to race the cold to get back into the library...that could happen..

on the subject of SUV's, I have noticed after recently moving to SoCal that 83% of the population here drives a very large SUV and most of them drive solo aka not carpooling. I guess that rugged outdoorsy feeling of being able to conquer muddy trails and go where you want, like the top of a mountain in a jeep ad comes in handy when going to get coffee and the paper. then again what do I know, I don't even have a car yet. and the rates on those giant SUV things are MIGHTY attractive.

Nobody walks in LA.

[Clack]

Hey, it's too early to tell if this is from us or from some sort of natural climate change.

We're not a natural occurance?

[Superstar Punani]

...in areas that are borderline (Taos, Squaw, Whistler) ...

So sad....
.

feels like I'm going to lose my mind

[Game Over]

Nobody walks in LA.

does everyone have segways?

[warthog]

does everyone have segways?

Yeah- they hand them out when you get your Screen Actors Guild card. They are the future man.