Draft study: Denver-Vail rail line would cost $15B

[gunit130]

Everyone will have Swine Flu this winter anyway....

[bean]

let's not forget that the heaviest peak traffic weekends occur during the summer.

It's generally dry and sunny when people are driving on 70 in the summer, as opposed to wet/snowy/icy and dark in the winter. That has a small effect on capacity.

[Edgnar]

jmf raises an interesting question. These mountains are laced with old railroad beds/grades. Many of them have been converted to dirt roads now, but it seems like they could use an existing grade from the mining days and with minimal work have a functional rail grade that only needs track laid. Seems like they could use eminent domain to get ownership of this land, if the state doesn't already own it.

Using one of these old grades as is probably won't work for high speed the whole way, but it seems a lot easier more sensible that cutting a new grade the whole way. Oh wait, now I know why they won't do that...

[cmsummit]

It's generally dry and sunny when people are driving on 70 in the summer, as opposed to wet/snowy/icy and dark in the winter. That has a small effect on capacity.

Yes, but the traffic capacity issue is not just a winter one. Raising season pass prices certainly isn't going to solve the problem. Winter driving conditions only compound an existing problem.

[Hacksaw]

Summit's idea is as solid as any I've heard... The resort sponsored shuttle isn't a bad one either if you could get the price right. Something along the lines of RT transportation from Genesee + lift ticket for $99. The other thing they could do would be to reopen and pave the road from Georgetown to Loveland and from Idaho Springs to CCP.... If you could hop on the frontage road before you hit the tunnel east of IS and stay on it until you hit Eisenhower tunnel, it would in effect, add a slow lane to i-70 through it's narrowest corridor. Maybe send the trucks that route or something...

FYI, there is no "frontage road," from Georgetown to Silver Plume.

[gunit130]

One solution that is not mentioned is to make Colorado more European....

Euro in the sense that we need to start connecting our small mountain towns with chairlifts, trams, and gondolas like the Euros.

Think about the possibilities of connecting Loveland, Abasin, Keystone, Breck, Copper, Vail, Beaver Creek.....

[Edgnar]

I've thought about that possiblity before, specifically connecting Breck and Copper. That would be pretty fucking sick. Rumor is that copper may be for sale, but there is a question about Vail Resorts buying b/c of anti-trust/monopoly laws. It would also make it easier for them to jack our pass prices up...

[MassAttack]

The Vail Resorts Mtns are already packed as is on big weekends, the extra skiers visits from the proposed train will make it absurd.

Get a place in Summit/Eagle County if the traffic really bothers you.

[tommyvee]

This thread and this whole discussion makes me wonder when the US changed from a "can-do" to a "can't do" nation. While the US public has been whinging about how much rail costs, how it won't work, and how no one will ride it, Spain has built a whole new high-speed rail system in the last decade. If we are convinced we cannot do things, we are correct.
But the US-centric views are so small-minded. "No one will use it, skiers need a ton of stuff, have to drive their own cars, etc.,etc.". Anyone who has skied in Europe knows that thousands of skiers arrive in resorts on trains, with their gear in ski-bags and duffels(duh), with nobody crying it that it is "un-possible".
Eventually the US will catch up with the rest of the world (like China and India for example) and start building a real rail system. The longer we wait, the more we will impoverish ourselves importing oil, and the more the whole system will cost, since construction and land costs escalate with time.

[gretch6364]

One solution that is not mentioned is to make Colorado more European....

Euro in the sense that we need to start connecting our small mountain towns with chairlifts, trams, and gondolas like the Euros.

Think about the possibilities of connecting Loveland, Abasin, Keystone, Breck, Copper, Vail, Beaver Creek.....

This could also be a good idea...how much would it cost to build a tram or gondolas that connected these resorts? Would it be less than $15B?

You could pass a lot of the cost onto the ski resorts, and have it start in like georgetown or somewhere before you go up the hill, and put in a giant parking lot. Of course, it would probably take a person quite a bit of time to get to Beaver Creek, and I doubt the resorts would like the fact that you are stopping at each resort and are more likely to get off and ski closer to Denver.

I still think the government should make a temporary exlusion to the price fixing laws and allow Vail Resorts and Intrawest to work together to set pass prices at $1500 a year. Try to cut the number of pass holders in half.

[gretch6364]

The Vail Resorts Mtns are already packed as is on big weekends, the extra skiers visits from the proposed train will make it absurd.

Get a place in Summit/Eagle County if the traffic really bothers you.

Simple solution...build more ski resorts...this is America

[grskier]

There are two peak traffic seasons on I70. Yes summer is larger than winter. I think I said that. You need to look at the facts and improved your reading comprehension. I never said winter was the absolute peak. But this passenger train idea would likely be used only during the winter peak.

http://www.dot.state.co.us/Eisenhowe...ounts.asp#2009

2009

Month...Eastbound...Westbound...Monthly Total...Average Daily Total
January...537,066.....532,089.....1,069,155....... 34,489
February..463,831.....478,485........942,316...... 33,654
March.....542,956.....536,167.....1,079,123....... 34,810
April.......407,945......392,873.......800,818.... ...26,694
May.......425,415......425,351.......850,766...... .27,444
June......494,445.......503,865.......998,310..... .33,277
July.......608,923.......616,682.....1,225,605.... ..39,536
August...592,604.......572,291.....1,164,895...... 37,577

What, you're not going to start discussing peak hour factor

This discussion is funny...

[Edgnar]

Fuck that noise -re making pass prices $1500.

[Pablo Escobar]

FYI, there is no "frontage road," from Georgetown to Silver Plume.

you don't count the bike path ? sheeit, thats the best way around the gate closure at the bottom of the hill.

[Pablo Escobar]

This could also be a good idea...how much would it cost to build a tram or gondolas that connected these resorts? Would it be less than $15B?

You could pass a lot of the cost onto the ski resorts, and have it start in like georgetown or somewhere before you go up the hill, and put in a giant parking lot. Of course, it would probably take a person quite a bit of time to get to Beaver Creek, and I doubt the resorts would like the fact that you are stopping at each resort and are more likely to get off and ski closer to Denver.

I still think the government should make a temporary exlusion to the price fixing laws and allow Vail Resorts and Intrawest to work together to set pass prices at $1500 a year. Try to cut the number of pass holders in half.

you gonna include loveland & abasin in the exclusion ? if not, all that does is move the traffic 50 miles east. and would cause more jongs in the BC, hitchhiking off LL pass, etc etc.

casino style buses would make the most sense, or do what the utards do, increase the pass cost then throw in a bus pass.

[gunit130]

We need to make it easier for the middle class to be second home owners in SuCo/EagleCo.

[gretch6364]

Fuck that noise -re making pass prices $1500.

sounds like it would be a good solution to me....only the truly committed would buy season passes, then the ones that are not, would just buy day passes or 4 packs, and the ski company's would probably make even more money from the day passes than they did not the $400 passes. If you cut down on the number of skiers, the powder would last longer and the lines would be shorter.

[gretch6364]

you gonna include loveland & abasin in the exclusion ? if not, all that does is move the traffic 50 miles east. and would cause more jongs in the BC, hitchhiking off LL pass, etc etc.

casino style buses would make the most sense, or do what the utards do, increase the pass cost then throw in a bus pass.

Yeah...all front range resorts would be included

[FrankZappa]

Some kind of interesting numbers in that CDOT link elkodin put up.
It looks as if the numbers are leveling off over the last 5-10 years (or at least slowing way down).
Also last year was the first year the numbers dropped. I bet with the price of gas people actually started car pooling.
I would have thought this years would be down too with the economy the way it's been.

[grskier]

Last year, country wide was the first time since they started counting that vehicle miles traveled decreased... spot on with the gas $...

I wouldn't be surprised if some people drove more with the economy the way it is.. cheaper than flying the fam.

[jmf]

FYI, there is no "frontage road," from Georgetown to Silver Plume.

Not until they pave it - there is what used to be a dirt road but has since been converted to a bike trail taht runs from about the west end of 22nd st. to the back of the loveland parking lot. It's got 'frontage road' written all over it.

[Benny Profane]

Just to throw one in here: Denver Airport. Way the fuck over budget, and still being paid for, and the projected growth around it has been pretty much nil. SLC elders must say a little prayer of thanks to that thing every winter, when they think of all the money they didn't spend and how much cheaper and easier it is for skiers to fly in there. Be careful what you hope for, especially when politicians start throwing around the billion word.

[fortysix&2]

I offer a more cost effective and sustainable solution:

[jrbd]

Solution: a fleet of MI-8 helicopters. $5-8 mil apiece, 24 passengers, 14,500' ceiling, 140 mph. The world's most-produced helicopter, in service for almost 50 years in 50 countries.

You could buy a lot of these puppies for $15 billion.

[snowswine]

I don't see why an efficient low cost bus system wouldn't help things out. Overall this would be cheaper and a whole lot quicker plan to execute.

Also enforce chain laws for the truckers, I see tons of trucks sliding around without chains.