unsmart people should not vote

[train07]

Originally posted by joshbu

2. The notion of executions carried out by the government is also dangerous.

Agreed.

[two_planks]

Originally posted by Potsy
What if only stupid people could vote - would things be worse or better?

Does it really matter now that Diebold controls the elections?

Maybe we should let our pets decide.

Woof.

My dog is smart. My fish seem kind of stupid though.

[Trackhead]

Originally posted by roadtrip:
Before we start licensing people to vote, how 'bout we license people to become parents. I think clueless parents are a greater issue than a clueless electorate.

Originally posted by monster dump:
Agreed. Easier yet, anyone (F) on welfare gets a manditory Depo-Provera shot with every third check. Not a civil rights issue becuase welfare is not a civil right. If you want the money, take the shot.

I'm proud of the above statements.

We are breeding a weak society. We need to be more animalistic. Only the strong survive and breed. But in modern society, it is the other way around. We are killing ourselves as a species.


Spelling errors edited to save my life and possibly pass on my DNA in the distant future.

[Dexter Rutecki]

I suggest that people who can't spell the word 'weak' and 'mandatory' be sterilized.
Or at least not allowed to post in serious threads.
Society's getting too soft on those who can't spell, we need to turn this around. Get rid of those poor-spelling genes.

[seldon]

Originally posted by freshie247
are the greatest,...pain in the ass & hope for the destruction of what's left of our "culture".

wait, we had a culture to begin with?

[Tippster]

Originally posted by board
... I can't imagine
it could makes things much worse ? The state requires you to pass a test to
drive, hunt, etc voting is as important and potently deadly as any of those...

Well, Hunting & Driving are not fundamental rights of US citizens, believe it or not, they are PRIVILEDGES that can be taken away by society. Voting is not just considered a right, but a "civic duty," whatever that means, and the only way to lose that right is to comit a Felony.

The danger in what you propose is subtle. The Electoral College was established back in the day so that the various landowners (the only recognized voters) could continue working their land and send one person from their community to cast their vote for them while they worked his land for him durng his absence. It was also easier, in this way, to have central polling places - the delegate, being a landowner, had access to transportation that a mere family farmer didn't.

Then look what happened in 2000. The guy with the most common votes did NOT win. This is why I bristle every time someone claims we have a true Democracy in the US. We don't; it's a representative democracy where we appoint people - be they delegates, electors, Congressmen, or Senators - to hopefully do what we want them to do. Understand that NONE of these people is obligated to do so, legally. Look at the outgoing Gov. of Michigan pardoning every death row inmate a few years ago. Betcha that wasn't the majority opinion. Remeber how much derision Clinton got for actually wondering (through polls) what the majority of the US would like to have happen? How COULD he??!! I mean really - should Shaniqua Laticia Johnson have the same voice as a Yale/Harvard/Stanford man?

The only recourse for change is to elect someone else next time around. The true genius in the system invented by T. Jefferson et al. is that it's flexible enough not to break and there are some checks & balances. However - make NO mistake. The Electoral College exists because the founding fathers thought like you: how can the un(der)-educated masses be trusted with such a weighty decision as electing our leaders?

I say we start a bit smaller: Licenses for guns.

[meatdrink9]

Originally posted by joshbu
Great. Radical leftism.

2. The notion of executions carried out by the government is also dangerous. You should already question the goverment's right to execute anyone. If you examine the numbers, a shocking number of criminals that are excuted turn out to be innocent. Plus, political agendas could be (have been?) carried out via abuses of the death penalty.

Looks like somebody missed the first sentence of my post.

"While we're throwing out crazy , but brilliant ideas."

I'm still down with the death penalty. People got's to be afraid of something to keep them in line. The death penalty isn't to blame for wrongfully incarcerated people. The legal system is.

[dipstik]

Originally posted by ak_powder_monkey
if unsmart people couldn't vote, republicans would never get into office (and wouldn't that be a shame)

edit: forgot the

Anyone else think this board has made Seldon, and now AKPM into liberals/dems/anti-republican?

[Trackhead]

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki:
I suggest that people who can't spell the word 'weak' and 'mandatory' be sterilized.

Did you mean: I suggest that people who can't spell the words 'weak' and 'mandatory' be sterilized.

Or did you mean: I suggest that people who can't spell the word 'weak' or 'mandatory' be sterilized.


Is it time for your vasectomy?

[ak_powder_monkey]

Originally posted by dipstik
Anyone else think this board has made Seldon, and now AKPM into liberals/dems/anti-republican?

Not me if anything its made me more conservitive

[Dexter Rutecki]

Originally posted by Trackhead
Did you mean: I suggest that people who can't spell the words 'weak' and 'mandatory' be sterilized.

Or did you mean: I suggest that people who can't spell the word 'weak' or 'mandatory' be sterilized.


Is it time for your vasectomy?

I meant and/or. Obviously.

[board]

Tippster I agree the Electoral college is a hindrance to Democracy and I join you in calling for it's immediate elimination. The voter testing system I am suggesting does not water down the electorate, theoretically 100% of the population would be eligible to vote. This is not a class system suggesting only white male land owners can vote. Everyone under my system can determine their own eligibility.

A little insight into what spurred this post. It is no secret that I am a card carrying liberal commie pinko fag, but this idea was born out of frustration with my fellow man's intellectual laziness, not his political biases. This idea, for me anyway, is utterly non partisan. I actually think it might have a negative impact on the Democratic party, but I haven't seen anything that would back that up ?

Simply put Merican's are lazy ! We CHOOSE to engage ourselves in activities that give instant gratification while ignoring anything that smacks of effort and time. Case in point I bet you have friends/co-workers/acquaintances who can rattle off fantasy football stats like Chris Berman reading a tele prompter but couldn't pick out the president of Mexico in a multiple choice quiz, or can tell you the Oscar dress designer of every major female actress but can not identify who the US Sec of Defense is, or have solved 100 plus hours of Final Fantasy but have no idea what position Gerald Ford held before he became president. This is disturbing and I don't want their vote canceling my vote. This is not intellectual elitism. I am not suggesting people have to write a 1000 word essay on the principles of Keynesian economics, simply high school level civics/history/current events. The capacity is there. People if they choose to be, are capable of maintaining a basic level of knowledge.

For some, ignorance is truly bliss, and to those people I raise my ice cold can of Duff Dry to you good sir ! However life is full of choices and choices come with consequences, so if you choose to make professional wrestling your area of expertise at the expense of others areas of knowledge that is your democratic right as a Merican, but don't cry foul on election day when you are locked out of the voting booth because you answered B. 1903 to the question " In what year was the Louisiana Purchase made." You can sleep well knowing that you can tell people how many times and in what year Hacksaw Jim Dugan was WWE " Champion". Let dem Poindexter's in Washington work out the details, you've got some Nekkid lady mud flaps that needs installin.

[Potsy]

Who gets to develop the test? What if the questions were less eurocentric and were more along the line of:

What year was Malcom X born? In what year did the second battle at Wounded Knee take place? What organization did Cesar Chavez found? Etc.

Would such a voter test be good for America?

[mildbill.]

Originally posted by board
because you answered B. 1903 to the question " In what year was the Louisiana Purchase made."

ok i don't usually do this political thread thing, but:

[political spam] vote "NO" on Proposition 212--repeal the Louisiana Purchase!--we kept the receipt, and Lousiana DOES NOT FIT! [/political spam]

[joshbu]

Originally posted by meatdrink9
Looks like somebody missed the first sentence of my post.

"While we're throwing out crazy , but brilliant ideas."

I'm still down with the death penalty. People got's to be afraid of something to keep them in line. The death penalty isn't to blame for wrongfully incarcerated people. The legal system is.

Heh. The whole gist of it is that it's not possible to create a system that is 100% right. Same as the voter sorting. It's just not possible.

Worse, because the system holds so much inherant power, (power over human life, power over the selection of leaders) it's bound to be corrupted.

Finally, there is substantial evidence that the death penalty does not deter major crime at all. The murder rates in death penalty states are in line (often higher!) with states that ban the death penalty. (Check http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...cid=12&did=168)

The reason it doesn't work is that murder is generally commited by people who are mentally unstable. They aren't able to make the "if I do this and they catch me, I die" connection necessary to make it any sort of deterant.

[Potsy]

But if we execute a convicted murderer haven't we successfully deterred them from murdering again?

[mr_gyptian]

Originally posted by Potsy
Who gets to develop the test? What if the questions were less eurocentric and were more along the line of:

What year was Malcom X born? In what year did the second battle at Wounded Knee take place? What organization did Cesar Chavez found? Etc.

Would such a voter test be good for America?

The test for US citizenship is rudimentary enough. It got passed around at the bank I was last employed in Chicago. the results were abhorrent.

Oh, and Potsy, could you name three more inconsequential events?

[1080Rider]

Just my $.02 on the death penalty. We need to figure out why we're using it and go from there. As potsy said, if its to get a bad guy off the street and keep him from killing again, its effective and should be in place. If its a deterrant then we really are wasting our time. As barbaric as they were, public hangings/killings were prolly more effective than our behind closed door gassings/injections of today. No one is going to think, "I might get gassed in 14 years if I commit this crime." If they'd seen some guy hanging last week, well, maybe he doesn't hit his wife w/ the hammer.

[Buster Highmen]

Milking sharks with plaid udder voluptuizing upright and locked vacuum cleaners is the nooner of newage newts and neoherbivores. Not to say that Nancy and her bushy headed boyfriend aren't sucking fat wallets on alternate Tuesdays, followed by waltzing waffles and lost, dancing doorknobs. Soon, all your neoprene underwear will stage a revolt and find themselves as revolting as you and then, then mes amies, you will find that the unguents of the 7th chakra have invested heavily in squat futures in a bad locust season and you will be fucked. Fucked I say.
So, lest there be any question regarding the sensibility of clouds, floor mats and little dark hard rubber wheels, let us lift up our hearts and eye to that great donut in the sky and ask for Perserverance, Pulchritude and a little alleyway nookie when the gestapo isn't looking.

[meatdrink9]

Originally posted by joshbu
Heh. The whole gist of it is that it's not possible to create a system that is 100% right. Same as the voter sorting. It's just not possible.

Worse, because the system holds so much inherant power, (power over human life, power over the selection of leaders) it's bound to be corrupted.

Finally, there is substantial evidence that the death penalty does not deter major crime at all. The murder rates in death penalty states are in line (often higher!) with states that ban the death penalty. (Check http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/arti...cid=12&did=168)

The reason it doesn't work is that murder is generally commited by people who are mentally unstable. They aren't able to make the "if I do this and they catch me, I die" connection necessary to make it any sort of deterant.

It still comes down to fixing the legal system. Not the punishment. Plenty of people who kill make that connection, otherwise they wouldn't plead "not-guilty" and be scared shitless once caught.

And you could also argue that the reason the death penalty has been brought to those states is because they had a higher crime/poverty rate in the first place. Things don't change overnight. There's more to analyze there. That's like saying there's more crime in prison than golf courses and the people in prison have security guards everywhere and the golf courses don't. Therefor we should get rid of the security guards and the prison crime will go away.

[Clack]

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
I suggest that people who can't spell the word 'weak' and 'mandatory' be sterilized.
Or at least not allowed to post in serious threads.
Society's getting too soft on those who can't spell, we need to turn this around. Get rid of those poor-spelling genes.

Heh.

edit:

Originally posted by meatdrink9
And you could also argue that the reason the death penalty has been brought to those states is because they had a higher crime/poverty rate in the first place. Things don't change overnight. There's more to analyze there. That's like saying there's more crime in prison than golf courses and the people in prison have security guards everywhere and the golf courses don't. Therefor we should get rid of the security guards and the prison crime will go away.

That was my immediate response as well, not even having taken sides on the issue.

[cololi]

Requiring any test in order to vote is wrong. It is well documented that the schools with the worst records (in terms of test scores) are in poor neighborhoods. What you are doing is tellling the poor you can't vote because the school is under funded and we can't get good teachers to teach there, therefore your kids will be stupid and never get to have a say in how govt. impacts their lives.

There is no question that voter apathy in the US is a growing problem, but requiring any test will only increase the problem.

[board]

Originally posted by cololi
Requiring any test in order to vote is wrong. It is well documented that the schools with the worst records (in terms of test scores) are in poor neighborhoods. What you are doing is tellling the poor you can't vote because the school is under funded and we can't get good teachers to teach there, therefore your kids will be stupid and never get to have a say in how govt. impacts their lives.

There is no question that voter apathy in the US is a growing problem, but requiring any test will only increase the problem.

I already addressed this ???

" In all fairness though to take a stance like mine I would be
remiss if I did not take into account the continuing problem of educational inequality in this country, however I do not feel that a radical educational system overhaul needs to take place before a system like I propose be instituted. maybe just in conjunction with...however libraries are free and we all have access to them "


Once again though to make perfectly clear my intentions, this test would NOT require you to have a Masters degree from Yale. example how many Senators are there ? if you can't answer this question I want you to be VERY VERY apathetic when it comes to voting !

[Potsy]

How about we test the candidates instead of the voters?

And instead of asking them about history and civics we ask them to provide specific answers to questions like how does the crime rate in their district or state compare to others and why? Who is the largest employer and do they pay wages/salaries that contribute to a healthy and vibrant middle class? Does their district or state have a plan for future growth in population? Do they think it is acceptable to get hummers from 21 year old interns in their taxpayer funded office? If Country A commits a terrorist act against our country is it a good idea to invade Country B? If Wille Nelson dies, would you listen to Incubus?

Stop me.

[joshbu]

Originally posted by meatdrink9
And you could also argue that the reason the death penalty has been brought to those states is because they had a higher crime/poverty rate in the first place. Things don't change overnight. There's more to analyze there. That's like saying there's more crime in prison than golf courses and the people in prison have security guards everywhere and the golf courses don't. Therefor we should get rid of the security guards and the prison crime will go away.

You could make this argument, but again you would find that the numbers don't back it up. Nationally, the murder rate has declined since 1990, but there has been more improvement in non-death penalty states. (dealth penalty states: 9.5 in 1990 to 5.82 in 2002. Non death penalty states: 9.16 in 1990 to 4.27 in 2002. All number in murders per 100K people and taken from the FBI's "Crime in the United States" document.) Now, that's 14 years. How much longer until this "deterrance" kicks in?

Originally posted by board
Once again though to make perfectly clear my intentions, this test would NOT require you to have a Masters degree from Yale. example how many Senators are there ? if you can't answer this question I want you to be VERY VERY apathetic when it comes to voting !

You STILL cannot do this, no matter how easy the test is. In the United States, everyone has to right to vote. PERIOD. We already face heavy manipulation of campaign finance, gerrymandering, the "2 party" system, the electoral college, and a host of other schemes to keep the powerful in power. Why would you give them yet another tool to manipulate the results of our so-called democracy?

You can be appalled at people's ignorance. It's your right. But remember that everyone else has an equal right to be ignorant.