Beginner Boat Question

[SkaFreak]

I am brand new to kayaking and am looking at getting a boat to start out. I weigh about 200lbs (hoping to drop a few though) and am 6'1". I plan on doing a bit of river running and getting into playboating as well. All that being said, I have a killer deal on a liquid logic space cadet. I know it is a playboat, and for a beginner will be hard to learn to roll, but at the price I can probably get it for, it is hard to pass. As long as I am willing to put the time and effort into learning how to roll it well, would this be a decent boat to start in? Most reviews I've read say that it would be bad to take it in anything above Class III+ or IV, but I figure it will be a while before I am running anything that hard anyway. Thanks.

[XXX-er]

have you sat in a space cadet ,how big are your feet & what is your inseam length ... do you fit for longer than 15 min without being in intense pain?

[SkaFreak]

I have not had a chance to actually try out the boat yet, but I had planned on making sure that the fit felt good before I buy it. I was more concerned about whether the boat would be something that would be appropriate for a beginner looking at both a bit of river running and playboating. That being said, if you can give me a better idea on the chance of it fitting that would be great. I have pretty good sized feet (wear size 12's in street shoes generally). My inseam in about 30 inches, possibly closer to 31. I like my pants a little baggy and usually wear 32's.

[RootSkier]

So how much does a Space Cadet cost these days if it's a "too good to pass up"? $200?

How athletic/ambitious are you with your learning curve? Where are you going to be boating?

[SkaFreak]

I don't have a solid price yet, but no more than $350 for the boat and a paddle. My brother knows that guy that is selling it though, and is pretty sure that he would drop the price for me. The main reason that I find it to be such a good deal is that it is the only boat I have found around me within my price range.

I'm moderately athletic, decent upper body strength but nothing amazing. I'm fairly ambitious when it comes to learning sports, and I suspect particularly so with kayaking. I have only ever done anything on flat water, and never learned to roll, but even that I have loved. I have also done a bit of rafting, so I know I enjoy whitewater as well. Now I just need to put them together.

Most of my boating will probably be in the Rio Grande Gorge area, particularly while I am learning. I'll be starting on Orilla Verde once I am comfortable with the boat on flat water, then moving up to the Racecourse once I am comfortable there, and hopefully eventually to the Taos Box.

[cmsummit]

I would pass on the Space Cadet and get something more suited to running rivers.

EDIT: for $350, you should be able to find a MUCH better option.

[SkaFreak]

cmsummit, where should I be looking for a deal like that other than craigslist and local shops? Being that I have no clue on kayak fits, I would want to sit in it and take a look at the boat before I buy it. The only comparable deal on craigslist is a Pyranha Inazone with a paddle, floatbags, and sprayskirt for $450. I figured I would look into the Space Cadet first since I had connections to the guy selling it, but at the same time didn't want to buy a boat that wasn't going to work for what I needed.

[cmsummit]

Depending on the size, that Inazone would be a better beginner boat than the Space Cadet and maybe a better deal depending on the quality of the extras that come with it.

Check out mountainbuzz.com for used kayaks.

Also, CKS in Buena Vista, CO is having their Paddlefest w/ gear swap May 23 & 24. It may be worth a trip.

[Tye 1on]

There always used to be a shitton of info on boats as well as a pretty happening gear swap over on boatertalk.com. Haven't been there lately.

You have a great location for learning! Might also give some local raft companies a call. They might have lessons, and often the guides are dumping their older kayaks right now to buy the newer groovy ones...

[SkaFreak]

BTW, thanks for all the help/info everyone. That is actually kinda how I came into knowledge of the Space Cadet. My brother is going to be guiding rafts for the first time this year, and this was a kayak dumped off by a guide to another guide who didn't ever really use it. Anyway, I'll look around a bit. Any suggestions as to anything I should look for in a boat, or any common boats that would fit my needs well.

[wcf3]

You really should be able to get something that is a more appropriate tool to learn in very cheaply. Any first generation river/play boat (Kinetic, RPM, etc) is fine for learning, and since so few people actually use them much anymore, there should be some around almost for nothing. If you can find a creekboat, that would work to learn in as well and would be something you could keep around and later use as well. In either of these boat types you can hang onto it for a while, to do first runs on rivers that are going to be too challenging to approach in a playboat for a while.

One thing you could try to scare up some other alternatives would be to hang out at the put in for the racecourse on a weekend with a sign: "Looking for good beginner boat. Cheap!" I'd be surprised if you didn't get a number of hits.

[crackboy]

also check out mountainbuzz.com, much more CO focused so you will have better luck geting something local

[SkaFreak]

Mountainbuzz.com did definitely have some good looking boats, but it will be a couple weeks before I could make it to pick up most of the boats, and by then it seems to me like Paddlefest might be a better call, as the drive will let me look at a few different boats. If I don't have a boat by the time the Paddlefest/ gear swap happens, I may be able to make it up there. If I do make it, will any of you be there as well? If I am going to make the drive to find one it would be really nice to have someone who knows what to look for in a good boat that I could ask a few questions.

EDIT: I decided to get in contact with some of the local stores, and have been convinced that taking a class and demoing a few boats while in it would be a good call. Probably a good idea to try out a few boats on the water to get a solid idea of what I want in a boat and what fits me well before I buy.

[mtcham]

There is no such thing as a beginner boat unless you want to be a beginner forever and sit in the eddies while your friends have all the fun. And you'll just end up looking for another boat in a month or two. Get a playboat and learn to roll it and you'll be able to roll any boat you get into and you will improve quicker. No matter what kind of boat you have if you can't brace, roll, and maneuver the boat quickly swimming will be a big part of the learning.

You will probably fit in most mid size play boats but with your weight they will be slower. Is 30" your true inseam?The other thing to consider is what your boating partners are into-play/no play/creeks/overnighters?

Eventually if you stick with it you'll probably end up with a creek boat too depending on what water you have available.

I've never paddled a space cadet but it looks like you are at the upper weight range-looks like a fun boat. Maybe someone who has tried it will give their opinion.

[markb]

There is no such thing as a beginner boat unless you want to be a beginner forever and sit in the eddies while your friends have all the fun. And you'll just end up looking for another boat in a month or two. Get a playboat and learn to roll it and you'll be able to roll any boat you get into and you will improve quicker. No matter what kind of boat you have if you can't brace, roll, and maneuver the boat quickly swimming will be a big part of the learning.

Not really. I've seen people pick up super cheap (for a reason) edgy playboats and never get a roll they trust. I lived out of my glide but I watched other people never feel confidence in that generation of relatively-unstable playboats.

Get something you can roll, has stability, some volume, and a little hull speed. People need to learn to catch eddies, ferry, paddle straight, edge and brace/dink before they need to play. If you want a boat that'll be useful for a long time, get a small creekboat or flat-bottomed creek decked RR.

Stable river-runners hold their value for a reason. Now if you're the type who can learn to roll in 15 minutes and run class 3 half an hour later, go for something aggressive. Otherwise, you might get frustrated with a lot of flipping/swimming/flailing.

[mtcham]

Not really. I've seen people pick up super cheap (for a reason) edgy playboats and never get a roll they trust. I lived out of my glide but I watched other people never feel confidence in that generation of relatively-unstable playboats.

Get something you can roll, has stability, some volume, and a little hull speed. People need to learn to catch eddies, ferry, paddle straight, edge and brace/dink before they need to play. If you want a boat that'll be useful for a long time, get a small creekboat or flat-bottomed creek decked RR.

Stable river-runners hold their value for a reason. Now if you're the type who can learn to roll in 15 minutes and run class 3 half an hour later, go for something aggressive. Otherwise, you might get frustrated with a lot of flipping/swimming/flailing.

Good argument. For a new paddler showing fear of the water or not overly athletic (or as old as me) I would defer to a faster, higher volume, easy rolling boat. What I see a lot of is the young kids not taking the time to learn basic paddle strokes. They learn to roll and throw the boat around in the pool, then jump in the river but don't understand the basic concepts of how water flows in a river. That's when the real learning and safety come into play.

Learning hard maneuvers on easy rivers and lower flows builds confidence for new paddlers especially if they are self taught. Beginners generally start on class 2-3 not 4-5 so I think the need for a survival type boat is less important especially when better paddlers are present.