Summer use of ski areas

[kidwoo]

Tahoe take on the same legislation.

http://www.sierrasun.com/article/200...%20attractions


Why are friggin alpine slides always the talk? Like those things generate repeat customers, pass holders etc? Just further evidence that ski areas have their heads up their poopers. At least northstar offers some fishing in a dinky retention pond. That's a hell of a lot more 'mountain environment' than an alpine slide.

[bngofast]

I disagree.

It has more to do with the fact that most US resorts just haven't gotten off their asses and actually put some thought into hiring GOOD trailbuilders to compete with whistler. Every single mountain I know of in the US (except maybe sol vista) just half asses it by doing something like hiring some clown who works there in the winter who happens to own a mountain bike.

That's not entirely true. The Sol Vista guys aren't really being paid that much more than anywhere else(I skied last week with my best friend from high school who is a member of the trail crew up there). The big problem is the original topic of discussion in this thread and that is that Nat'l Forest Service regulation makes it very difficult to get trail cutting approved. Though it has gotten better, it still takes a very long time just to get approval to build a new section of 5 berms. Sol Vista owns the property that it operates its resort on so there is no regulation. Same thing with Angel Fire, New Mexico.

[SkiNebraski]

All this Whistler vs Mammoth stuff makes me glad that I can just go to Sol Vista and know that I'm getting the best gnar there is, winter or summer.

Not bashing on Sol Vista at all, I love the place but as far as rock gnar goes keystone beats vista.

[slim]

Tahoe take on the same legislation.

http://www.sierrasun.com/article/200...%20attractions


Why are friggin alpine slides always the talk? Like those things generate repeat customers, pass holders etc? Just further evidence that ski areas have their heads up their poopers. At least northstar offers some fishing in a dinky retention pond. That's a hell of a lot more 'mountain environment' than an alpine slide.

The TRPA won't take kindly to DH course building at any of the in-basin resorts in Tahoe. I can just see all the jr. planners losing their minds over the concept of regularly moving dirt.

[kidwoo]

That's not entirely true. The Sol Vista guys aren't really being paid that much more than anywhere else(I skied last week with my best friend from high school who is a member of the trail crew up there). The big problem is the original topic of discussion in this thread and that is that Nat'l Forest Service regulation makes it very difficult to get trail cutting approved. Though it has gotten better, it still takes a very long time just to get approval to build a new section of 5 berms. Sol Vista owns the property that it operates its resort on so there is no regulation. Same thing with Angel Fire, New Mexico.

Paid more or not, they know what they're doing because most of them built trails for years before they worked there. Most mountains are hiring guys who never lifted a tool in their lives to build trails until they were hired to do so. The right people building trails that others will travel to ride is a huge part of the equation.

But you're right about FS land. I know Northstar owns their own property (at least where the trails are) so that certainly helps. An interesting side note is that they just paid somewhere on the order of a million in fines for not keeping their construction clean and dropping a bunch of sediment in the creek drainages. But it wasn't the bike trails

Mammoth is on FS land, and I know they get a lot of flak about new construction. Seems like whenever they got a race a while back though, they got a new trail or at least a new section. They've also added some new trails in the last few years....so it can be done on FS leases. I'm sure it differs in every district though.

You know the ownership at keystone by any chance? I don't.

The TRPA won't take kindly to DH course building at any of the in-basin resorts in Tahoe. I can just see all the jr. planners losing their minds over the concept of regularly moving dirt.

But construction does happen. I can't think of any area that's as close to the lake as homewood and you've seen what they've got planned. I don't disagree, TRPA would thow a hissy fit for sure. I just don't know if it's that areas work harder when it's ski related or just straight up money in the right pockets but an entire base development like heavenly and homewood have thrown out there dwarf anything a well built path through the woods could pose as a threat. But your 'regularly' part probably would be a huge flag. Seeing as how it rains constantly here in the summer, I'm sure they'd still have a problem with it.

And TRPA and the forest service need to get their heads out of their asses. Everyone throws up the erosion argument with bike trails when there are thousands of miles of old logging roads around here that are straight up mud creeks every spring. I know my ranting won't change the rules but just throwing that out there.

[karpiel]

Not bashing on Sol Vista at all, I love the place but as far as rock gnar goes keystone beats vista.

Yea, there's just that one little sorta steep bit at the vista. And you can't get much more freeride then my bike, WP for me this year.

[trainnvain]

At Attitash, the two times I've gotten my bike off the lift with a flat, the alpine slide guys have let me chair the bike back down as I ride the slide.
That shit is WAY fucking fun with full armor and a fullface.

The first time I got to do that, I was in line with all my gear on and a sled. The woman behind me asked "Do you need a helmey for this?"
I replied "Oh yeah, not just a helmet, but I wear full protective gear. You're just wearing flip-flops? Did you take the safety briefing? They probably won't even let you on."
She looked terrified.
I let her off the hook after that.

[kidwoo]

^Best case for alpine slide ever!

[ColinB]

I agree with everything Kidwoo has said, he knows more about bike parks than most and he is spot on. I can offer a little insight on Mammoth Bike park as a resident and year round employee of the mountain, it sucks compared to Whistler, end of discussion.

As for the financials of a bike park not penciling because DH'ers are drunk/broke/stoned etc...even if that were true (its not), the bread and butter for the bike park here at Mammoth is the families that come mountain biking. They think its cool that there are crazy DH trails, but they buy the same priced lift ticket (usually 3 or 4 of them for the whole family), rent bikes (more money for the resort) and then just go putter around on the cross country trails for a few hours and go home, its easy money. These folks aren't riding the gnarly trails, but they still want the lift up because they don't want to climb the whole way up, just like your average ski family thinks its neat that there are big jumps in the park, or steep stuff up top, but spend the day cruising groomers, same concept, resort mountain biking in the US is just 30-40 years behind the evolution of resort skiing.



The Mammoth Bike park has actually been making a meager profit the past few years, and it is finally starting to change some management opinions in regards to actually funding the damn thing (of course the economic downturn crushed a lot of that). They are also being more creative in ways to get trails built that don't require extra FS permitting, like planning to build jump lines on unused dirt roads instead of on soil, no permit needed. But yeah, the permit process sucks, and its not even just a matter of the FS not wanting ski areas to cut down trees or dig holes (though they hate that too), its also that the use permits for the ski resorts state that the primary use of the land is for skiing, so other projects cannot impact the skiing. An example of that would be something like a dual slalom course, not really much of an impact, but because of the features on it, the berms and the banks, it would require significant depth of snow to cover, the forest service would not like that on an open run, they would try to force the resort to remove the berms and jumps for the winter so that the run could be skied with minimal snow coverage, lame.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Fail!

I got some fresh turns in today! from the 10 inches the other night... over 5 ft in the beginning of may... right now the resorts in NS have the most coverage I have seen in the past couple of seasons.. AND ITS MAY! although are season started dry... it turned into a pretty epic one. right now is probably the worst time to say that Tahoe has no snow. Squaw and AM have more snow than mt hood, vail, jackson, big sky, and park city

Did you just come back from 2 months from now in the future?!

People bike bridger bowl a lot. You just have to climb it first! Lot's of ski areas have summer rides and biking if they're not on FS land. Not a bad idea to allow a few alpine slides and such. Biking would probably be good, too.