Surf etiquette question

**surfgator** · 03-11-2009, 05:46 PM

We needed a referee in the water today, it got ugly. I know there are lots of nuances with who gets the wave, but it's mostly about placement, right? The person closest to the peak or tube gets the wave. The other option is you have to get in line like at a chairlift- one at a time, wait your turn. Or, some combination of wait your turn while getting best placement. My opinion is it's 3/4 placement and 1/4 waiting your turn. But, it's hard to keep track of whose turn it is when there are 10 surfers sharing a peak and half of them are talking, resting, or birdwatching. What works best so that no waves go unridden?

And a loaded question: Doesn't it piss you off when some goombah tries to 'educate' you at a place that you've been surfing for 20+ years?

**Bud** · 03-11-2009, 06:27 PM

where were you surfing?

i'm glad that where and when i typically surf in the NW, its not that bad....if it was, i probably would've given up on surfing within the first few times out.

while i think the whole 'waiting your turn' thing is nice in theory and its pissed me off before when someone has scored wave after wave right next to me, i've never said anything about it...if someone can get on the wave sooner and/or handle a steeper takeoff than i can, then more power to 'em.

my plan for the summertime mush...have my new 10fter out in the lineup....if my arms can't get me on the wave soon enough, having a board the size of a yacht hopefully will

**puhisurfer** · 03-11-2009, 07:00 PM

It's 100% about "placement". Inside guy gets the wave.

But... how you gonna get inside without paddling around somebody? And unless you are Kelly Slater or are a Hawaiian local then paddling around = beat down.

**Misty_Fly** · 03-11-2009, 07:27 PM

i think waiting your turn/sharing the waves around (depending on your skills relative to the other surfers) should be just as important as simple "nearest-the-peak-gets-it" etiquette. personally, i'm an ok surfer and most of the time there are way better guys than me in the lineup. this being the case and if the best guys are just taking everything, i'll normally ask nicely, in the right tone, whether they'd mind sharing the odd wide one with the rest of us. on the rare occasions when i'm one of the better guys, i'd hope people would say that' the same holds. i guess no 2 lineups are ever the same, always different characters, what works well here might not go down so well elsewhere. its about using your judgement, being friendly, and if it still ain't happening for ya either stick it out or try somewhere else...

**Ottime** · 03-11-2009, 07:29 PM

It is not all about placement. It really depends on where you are surfing. 10 people should be able to manage to share a peak w/o issue. 10 is a small crowd. If you have been surfing the place for 20 years, you should know some of the faces out there - make that work for you. There are a variety of 'rules' - mix and match.

Deepest Guy Rule - who ever is deepest gets the wave. The problem with this rule is if you have assholes who are all agro to get deepest. Then you need to keep jockeying for position to stay deep. Generally, this rule creates mayhem from my experience.

Local's Rules ** - unless you are a local, you only get left overs. If you are not a local, find another spot. There is usually a wave just nearly as good around the corner.

Gentlemen's Rule - Take turns. You need to make your waves with the Gentlemen's Rule. You digger two waves in a row - find another peak. It does not matter how you ride, you just need to make that drop. When in effect, it is possible for 10-15 gentlemen to share a peak. Talk it out.

Ripper's Rule ** - Take turns. Unless you rip as strong as the crew out there, go some where else. If you drop in like a Barney, and surf like a Kook, you will be dropped in on. Be prepared to watch someone kill it in front of you as you hold on for dear life. You will not get a wave to your self. Even if you are deepest.

Free For All Rule - no real rules are followed. Often this happens at point breaks. Like the "I thought you were not going to make that section" drop ins. Or the "I did not see you" drop ins. Or the "fuck you, it is crowded out here" drop ins.

** I find these to be lame rules, but they do exist in many line ups. The Point/Slot area at Steamers Lane will usually have one of these two rules in effect.

**surfgator** · 03-11-2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bud

where were you surfing?)

I was at Westport right next to the jetty where there were about 10 people sharing that peak. I got there, waited out about 10 waves, then started to paddle for a wave after seeing that nobody else was setting up for it and this jerk on an M10 hog trys to block me. I pull up shocked after realizing what he was trying to do and say, "Why would you do that?"
"You gotta wait your turn and get in the back of the line", he says. A few more words but no major barbs exchanged. I didn't let it ruin the rest of my session, but afterwards it pissed me off (and still is) that the dude was trying to police the lineup like that. I see him out there all the time and he tears it up, so I'm sure he's riding the snake pretty hard and I know it gets frustrating but he needs to mellow and learn that you don't give someone the business until after they've dropped in on you or are being excessively agro. Otherwise, it was a beautiful day with plenty of waves and plenty of smiles.

Oh well, I guess for some surfing is like church, for others, a Metallica concert.

**Bud** · 03-11-2009, 09:05 PM

I didn't expect you to say you were surfing at Westport.... I've gotten stinkeye from folks out there in the lineup, but never exchanged harsh words with anyone. I guess when I'm out at the jetty I typically avoid the peak closest to the rocks since there's usually two or three peaks working a short paddle to the south. Sorry to hear you ran into an a-hole. At least you got out there to the water! I haven't been out in about a month and I'm dying for some water time.

**surfgator** · 03-11-2009, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

There are a variety of 'rules' - mix and match.

Thanks, that was very thorough and helpful. I don't think the local scene in other places translates very well to WA. IMO, Westport has always had more of a transient local scene- it's a tough town to live in and most so-called locals live 50+ miles away. I've seen the changing of the guard happen every couple years when new young blokes from Seattle get turned on to surfing and live out there for a couple winters til they can't handle it anymore and then move back to Seattle (that's me) or to Hawaii or Cali or quit and then the next crew moves in. I can only think of a handful of people who have stayed longer than two years. So, even though some young rippers may currently 'live' there and I don't, they come and go with the tide while I keep coming back winter after brutal winter- which one of us is the local?

I can't stand that I'm bringing this 'who's-a-local' shit up because it has nothing to do with my hunger for surfing. Cathartic, I guess. I certainly don't want to turn into the bitter barking old seals that I had to contend with when I first started (e.g. Barry and Decker).

**RootSkier** · 03-11-2009, 09:15 PM

What's the difference between a barney and a kook? Serious question from a non (ocean) surfer

**surfgator** · 03-11-2009, 09:31 PM

A kook is clueless and reckless. A barney is clueless but relatively harmless.

**Ottime** · 03-11-2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by surfgator

which one of us is the local?

I think longevity defines who may be a local. Locals seem to get to set the rules of engagement just because they are around most often over time.

I tend to surf a single reef once the fall swells begin moving in. If it gets too big for my home reef, I head up the road about a mile to one that can handle the juice. I know the core group at my home reef pretty well - really only in the water, not in real life. We play by the 'Gentlemen's Rule'. When each year a new crop of young guys show up, we set them straight - no bull shit.

In town in SC there is plenty of bull shit. We surf where we do because the surf rocks and we don't want to deal with attitude. We enjoy a peaceful day in the water - and enforce that.

The whole blocking move, IMO, is lame. If some one comes out and starts to hog waves by being aggressive, we give them a simple chat - we let them know they are killing the vibe. Most of the guys I surf with at this reef are very good - over head gaping barrel good. Still, in SC a super ripper all excited can show up - we just let them know we don't play by the same rules they do in town. Out there, we hoot for each other, and push each other, regardless who is having the best day. More fun that way. Even more fun when you hoot your buddy into a late double over head over the falls beating.

**chadeau** · 03-12-2009, 06:32 AM

So far I've just surfed beach breaks in Australia where the peaks can pop in different places, which doesn't lend itself to 'line-ups'. So I just go with the inside guy gets the wave rule. I'm not that good of a surfer so I usually let the stronger surfers go ahead. Once I've been out there long enough and the stronger surfers have gotten their share of waves because of their ability, I usually will get on a wave with them if they don't give me a chance. By that point they have seen me give up on a wave and give them the right of way a few times, so it's only fair.

Worked for me so far.

**picklestein** · 03-12-2009, 09:44 AM

At Westport, if it's a dude that drives a white Ranger or some other small truck and hangs out in the parking lot drinking all morning, his name is Pepsi. And he's a methhead duchebag. He'll be 6 feet under any day now.

**surfgator** · 03-12-2009, 11:33 AM

Thanks for holding my hand through the cool down, online surf folks. After sleeping on it, I've swallowed my pride and realized that even though I've been surfing the spot longer in time than that dude, he's probably currently paying his dues and surfing there more often than me over the short run so I need to yield and stick with leftovers unless I plan on surfing that spot more than 2-3X/month.

I don't think the guy who gave me a hard time was Pepsi, although that guys reputation precedes him. There's another guy I run into more on our north coast (conveniently his name rhymes with Dick) who moved to WA a couple years ago and he totally kills the lineup vibe. He always brings the longest, floatiest board, goes for everything, and paddles right to the front of the line immediately after catching a wave AND does nothing interesting while riding a wave. But, other than being kind of full of himself (he once bragged that he had caught 65 waves in a single session), he's a semi-tolerable conversationalist in the water and is usually smiling. I still can't figure out if he's a kook or a barney.

**Boarding Medic** · 03-12-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ottime

It is not all about placement. It really depends on where you are surfing. 10 people should be able to manage to share a peak w/o issue. 10 is a small crowd. If you have been surfing the place for 20 years, you should know some of the faces out there - make that work for you. There are a variety of 'rules' - mix and match.

Deepest Guy Rule - who ever is deepest gets the wave. The problem with this rule is if you have assholes who are all agro to get deepest. Then you need to keep jockeying for position to stay deep. Generally, this rule creates mayhem from my experience.

Local's Rules ** - unless you are a local, you only get left overs. If you are not a local, find another spot. There is usually a wave just nearly as good around the corner.

Gentlemen's Rule - Take turns. You need to make your waves with the Gentlemen's Rule. You digger two waves in a row - find another peak. It does not matter how you ride, you just need to make that drop. When in effect, it is possible for 10-15 gentlemen to share a peak. Talk it out.

Ripper's Rule ** - Take turns. Unless you rip as strong as the crew out there, go some where else. If you drop in like a Barney, and surf like a Kook, you will be dropped in on. Be prepared to watch someone kill it in front of you as you hold on for dear life. You will not get a wave to your self. Even if you are deepest.

Free For All Rule - no real rules are followed. Often this happens at point breaks. Like the "I thought you were not going to make that section" drop ins. Or the "I did not see you" drop ins. Or the "fuck you, it is crowded out here" drop ins.

** I find these to be lame rules, but they do exist in many line ups. The Point/Slot area at Steamers Lane will usually have one of these two rules in effect.

You forgot the "I'm bigger (and/or older) than you" rule - commonly enforced on 14-19 year old rippers who weigh 140 or less and can paddle a 5'10 like it was a longboard. Sometimes they need to be snaked, just to put them back in there place
Not that I would ever do such a thing from time to time

**Ottime** · 03-12-2009, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Boarding Medic

You forgot the "I'm bigger (and/or older) than you" rule - commonly enforced on 14-19 year old rippers who weigh 140 or less and can paddle a 5'10 like it was a longboard. Sometimes they need to be snaked, just to put them back in there place
Not that I would ever do such a thing from time to time

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. For sure that rule comes into play around here.

**HellgateBasement** · 10-21-2019, 07:54 PM

Bump.

I'm admittedly a kook, and too new to be truly local (maybe that's where this query should end but it's TGR). I do have a rough idea of who should have priority and know it's generally not me. But yesterday I was surfing at the spot I've been going to consistently for the last year. I'm second inside have been taking leftovers. I see a wave coming and the guy to the inside of me is clearly too deep and starts paddling back out as I'm paddling for the wave. Then he pivots around and we both get up at the same time, maybe a yard apart, but come together almost instantly and both go down. Dude was irate. Seems like a grey area to me at least, right? Like if you're that guy how fucking shocked and angry can you be that I went for that wave?

**m2711c** · 10-21-2019, 08:21 PM

was he showing off for some shelia or was the beach empty?

**2FUNKY** · 10-21-2019, 09:10 PM

Maybe he thinks you’re hot?

**happytimefunbox** · 10-22-2019, 07:02 AM

Its can be a dick move but it happens.

Someone is in position paddling for a wave, maybe on the shoulder.
Snake guy paddles deep into the peak behind them.
Then snake guy quick spins and one or two stroke into a late drop behind you.
Snake guy is betting you will see him and back off or not catch the wave in the first place.
If he gets to his feet first it is kinda technically his wave but it is a gray area.

Back when I surfed all the time and could paddle like a motherfucker I would use that technique from time to time.
You assess the lineup and it is pretty easy to tell who the guys are who will catch a wave and not fall on the takeoff vs. the kooks
If someone is not on their game and missing waves they are paddling for then this maneuver is fair game.
If someone is snaking other people this maneuver is fair game.
If someone is working with the pack, sharing waves, not hassling but still making the waves they go for and you do this to them then yeah, dick move.
Very subjective.

You admit to being a kook so...... maybe it was you?
Had you blown a couple dropins previously?
Missed a good wave that others could have had?
Mistakenly snaked his buddy?

Be a strong paddler and be able to drop in deeper into the peak instead of the shoulder and it will rarely happen to you.

**jackstraw** · 10-22-2019, 07:36 AM

If it's Medina, just drop in every time.

**PowerWhore7** · 10-22-2019, 09:32 AM

^^fuck Medina

**Long duc dong** · 10-22-2019, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by TheFugitive

Its can be a dick move but it happens.

Someone is in position paddling for a wave, maybe on the shoulder.
Snake guy paddles deep into the peak behind them.
Then snake guy quick spins and one or two stroke into a late drop behind you.
Snake guy is betting you will see him and back off or not catch the wave in the first place.
If he gets to his feet first it is kinda technically his wave but it is a gray area.

Back when I surfed all the time and could paddle like a motherfucker I would use that technique from time to time.
You assess the lineup and it is pretty easy to tell who the guys are who will catch a wave and not fall on the takeoff vs. the kooks
If someone is not on their game and missing waves they are paddling for then this maneuver is fair game.
If someone is snaking other people this maneuver is fair game.
If someone is working with the pack, sharing waves, not hassling but still making the waves they go for and you do this to them then yeah, dick move.
Very subjective.

You admit to being a kook so...... maybe it was you?
Had you blown a couple dropins previously?
Missed a good wave that others could have had?
Mistakenly snaked his buddy?

Be a strong paddler and be able to drop in deeper into the peak instead of the shoulder and it will rarely happen to you.

I agree with a lot of this. It is VERY subjective.

Let's say you are a bit on the shoulder and have been paddling first. If that is the case, and it looks like you are going to catch the wave, then yes, this is a dick move in a sense. But it all depends. If you start paddling when he is spinning around, then I think he is okay. But yes, lots of subjectivity.

I will give an example of when it is NOT okay. Summer before my senior year at UCSB I was surfing at Sands. It was a mellow, stomach high day. I was riding a 6'10" funboard, which made sense given the waves. A guy I knew was also out on a similar board. We were both mediocre surfers, we had learned at UCSB, but we had been doing it for a few years. He takes off on a wave going left, he is up and riding. A local kid, probably about 16, who was really good was paddling back out after getting a wave. He whips around behind the guy, the guy was already up and riding, and takes off. He goes down the line and pushes the guy I knew off the wave. They both start yelling, the kid claiming he dropped in, which was obviously not the case. One of my other buddies, a guy on UCSB's surf team who had grown up in Santa Barbara, paddled over. He put the kid in his place, and told the kid he was going to tell his dad what he did. The kid complained, but the guy would have none of it, said he saw the whole thing. That would be an example of when it is NOT okay. If someone is up and riding, or in the process of popping up, it is really not cool. That being said it does happen.

Was the guy paddling back out AFTER a wave? If he was that is pretty lame, and greedy. It does happen though.

**happytimefunbox** · 10-22-2019, 04:59 PM

Withoutadoubt if you are up and riding and someone drops in behind you is time for an asswhoopen. Unless your a tourist at Lunada Bay or Seaside Point.... Then just smile and hope your tires aren't slashed.