Made in ?

[adrenalated]

Why not support the real hard core indie AMERICANs? PM Gear, DPS, etc..?

DPS = based/designed in USA, made in China

Made in USA (to my knowledge):
PM Gear (179, 179 Fat, 188, 192, Lhasa 186, Lhasa 196)
Moment
Praxis
Folsom
Icelantic
Fatypus
Igneous
Voile
Unity
Wagner

[XXX-er]

http://www.exoticskis.com/ExoticSkis/Default.aspx

go crazy

[123ski]

There are some American companies..like Moment, PM, and Praxis that I really like, however..all in all...why would you want something made in America in the first place...in my experience American made stuff sucks (cars, tv's, computers)...so why would American made skis be any better? China, America, Spain, France, Estonia..whatever..just give me some skis...

[heyyyou]

Not to call your principles into question, but I do have to question the logic of buying one model over another from the same manufacturer.

If you want to make a statement through your purchase, why not avoid Volkl all together? It's just another big, faceless corporation owned by an even bigger corporate entity. They'll be sending all their production to China sooner then later.

As others have pointed out, there are alternatives. Good alternatives. Why not consider throwing your coinage at some of them?

[teleposeur]

It matters because most of the labor force in China is paid at poverty levels. It matters because a company SHOULD PAY its employees a living wage! It matters because an honest hard working human being should be able to have home, a family, and maybe even ski!

Amen and, it would be nice to be able make that happen here too.

[volklpowdermaniac]

Who the fuck cares. The whole conscience thing about having shit made in China and the minimum wage, and labor rights, blah blah blah....just another part of the softening of americans. You can't say anything without someone being offended, or do anything without anyone being offended.


There's one thing I care about. How does it ski, does it hold up.

If its made by some five year old being whipped, for 10 cents an hour in 100 degree sweat shop, and it fucking destroys and lasts forever, then bravo.

No one can control who/where/what conditions they were born into, so why do I need to feel some false sense of guilt over buying products made by people in other countries with less good fortune. I am damn thankful I am an american, but I didn't choose it, so I don't feel the need to accomadate for it.


Sorry, thats a really, skewed version of the world, but just my instinct, not asking anyone to agree.

If its good, buy it, if it sucks, don't.

[karpiel]

It matters because a company SHOULD PAY its employees a living wage! It matters because an honest hard working human being should be able to have home, a family, and maybe even ski!

If they really have it that bad, why don't they just quit and take another job?

[volklpowdermaniac]

If they really have it that bad, why don't they just quit and take another job?

amen brother.

[Singel]

If they really have it that bad, why don't they just quit and take another job?

Is that a serious question?

[dorikin]

^I think so. It is legit though, because this whole argument:

"It matters because a company SHOULD PAY its employees a living wage! It matters because an honest hard working human being should be able to have home, a family, and maybe even ski!"

Is completely blown out of proportion. Outsourcing production to China by U.S. companies has been shown time and time again to be beneficial to China. The factories pay better than the jobs a lot of these people would otherwise have. If they had a problem with how crappy the working conditions were, they really could find employment from some Chinese company that will pay them worse, and treat them like shit.

[123ski]

It matters because I have seen and heard more delam with the gotama (made in china) than the mantra (made in germany). It matters because skis made by skiers is a good thing, they care. It matters because most of the labor force in China is paid at poverty levels. It matters because a company SHOULD PAY its employees a living wage! It matters because an honest hard working human being should be able to have home, a family, and maybe even ski!

I already said this, but I will say it again:

This is how business works. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it is made worse. For those of you who won't buy from china because their employees don't make very much money, consider this:

Fischer has a factory in the Ukraine, their Monthly minimum wage in the Ukraine is 64.67 Euros a Month
Salomon has a factory in Romania where Montly Minimum Wage is 140.64 Euros a Month
Atomic has a factory in Bulgaria where Montly Minimum Wage is 112.49 Euros a Month
The minimum wage in Beijing China is 84.57 Euros a month.

I am not saying that this is the amount the workers in every factory make, but it seems that China is pretty comparable to the wages of Eastern Europe, where you don't care if your skis are made.

I am not writing this so that you quit buying skis from Salomon, Atomic, or Fischer, but to remind you that if you refuse to buy products from China you are just making your life more complicated than it needs to be.

[skifishbum]

^^^^^ sweet the elusive self quote

There are some American companies..like Moment, PM, and Praxis that I really like, however..all in all...why would you want something made in America in the first place...in my experience American made stuff sucks (cars, tv's, computers)...so why would American made skis be any better? China, America, Spain, France, Estonia..whatever..just give me some skis...

In my experience what all 17 years?? Which pm gear ski have you owned ridden Moment?? Praxis you just talkin out your jong ass or what. I'd tell ya to call Splat and ask him why pm gear skis are better, but friends dont waste other friends time.
Yeah finding good skis made in The USA is complicated almost as complicated as using the search button to find threads that already discussed this topic repeatedly
Fuckin warm weather and jongs time to fire up the made in the usa driftboat and grab those made in the usa waders and rods Shit I even have made in the usa flies*




*By incorriable stoner skifishbums

[123ski]

^^^^^ sweet the elusive self quote

In my experience what all 17 years?? Which pm gear ski have you owned ridden Moment?? Praxis you just talkin out your jong ass or what. I'd tell ya to call Splat and ask him why pm gear skis are better, but friends dont waste other friends time.
Yeah finding good skis made in The USA is complicated almost as complicated as using the search button to find threads that already discussed this topic repeatedly
Fuckin warm weather and jongs time to fire up the made in the usa driftboat and grab those made in the usa waders and rods Shit I even have made in the usa flies*








*By incorriable stoner skifishbums

I am sorry you misunderstood my response. I will break it down a little bit better so it is easier to understand.

1. I was saying that I really like PM, Praxis and Moment.

2. My next point is that If you are considering buying an American ski over a Chinese made ski just because it is made in America (remember, this is pointed at the thread starter who doesn't want to buy a ski that he has never skied on just because of where it is made)..when other products that are made in America have proven to be horrible

3. Although not all American made skis are horrible, some are. Although some Chinese made skis aren't horrible, some are. YOU CANNOT BUY SKIS BASED ON WHERE THEY ARE MADE.

That was my point, I wrote it horribly the first time.

Now, to answer your questions.

1. I am 23 years old, not 17.
2. Moment Donner Party, Moment ComiKaze, Moment Bibby Pro. I haven't skied anything from PM gear but alot of people I know have and they love them. 2 of my Friends have skis from Praxis that have been abused and abused and they are still holding up, I will ski on them soon.

[hemas]

Which pm gear ski have you owned ridden Moment?? Praxis you just talkin out your jong ass or what. I'd tell ya to call Splat and ask him why pm gear skis are better, but friends dont waste other friends time.

Yes, the boutique skis are really good and their customer service is pretty top notch as well (pRaxis... well let's not go there). But that is the case with ALL boutique skis, no matter where they are made (Birdos, DP).

Comparing Völkl to Bros is like comparing a VW Jetta to Lamborghini, sure they both will get ya where ya going and are not bad. But as far as workmanship style and whotnot go, well the Lambo is completely different level... The only difference being that boutique skis are actually not that much more expensive than regular brands.

[heyyyou]

I don't know that anyone should be necessarily riding the OP about making a purchase that's in line with his conscientious.

It's his money and if he chooses to buy from a non-third world source, good for him. And just because it doesn't matter to you where your money goes doesn't mean that everyone shares the same sentiment.

It's the "who gives a shit as long as I get a good deal" attitude that drives the global economy in the direction it has gone. It isn't necessarily good or bad, but it isn't too hard to figure out why almost everything is being made in China these days. Someday you may even be able to buy most your ski gear in Walmart, then it'll be convenient and inexpensive.

[XXX-er]

does boycotting products made somewhere by a factory worker do any good or do they just lose a job ?

[heyyyou]

does boycotting products made somewhere by a factory worker do any good or do they just lose a job ?

I'd rather spend my money on a "domestically" manufactured product simply out on the priniciple of what goes around comes around. A domestic company that can put together a high quality product that's competitive in terms of value with an overseas version at least deserves my consideration. Furthermore, they get kudos for making a go at it in a highly competitive environment.

It's easy to make the argument for outsourcing, until you've lost your job to it. However, I've got a steady career that's unlikely to be effected by the ups and downs of the global economy. So fuck you all!

[irish51]

I'd also like to add that the majority of my purchases (ski and otherwise) are done locally!

[volklpowdermaniac]

Ayn Rand baby, total ethical egoism and self interest.


But seriously, I would love to buy American, but so much shit made in America is crap. Cough [Chrysler, GM, Ford] cough.

But that's not to say all that is not made in the U.S. is gold.

Shit is just so different, product to product, location to location, some japanese shit is the tits, some german shit, some american shit is, etc and some from all those countries is the best.

IMO, given the economy and the sanctity of a dollar, its just best to cut the crap out of your life and buy what will last And if that means buying from China, U.S., Europe wherever, then do it. The economy seems to weak to have any kind of conscience regarding buying products to be loyal. If a company wants my business, just step it up and make a better product.

[summer_teeth]

Thanks, it matters where products are from. I like the gotamas but can't get over the made in china sticker!

To your original question; if you care where your skis are made then stay away from the big ski companies and buy something US built. There's lots to choose from.

[verbier61]

This is how business works. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it is made worse. For those of you who won't buy from china because their employees don't make very much money, consider this:

Fischer has a factory in the Ukraine, their Monthly minimum wage in the Ukraine is 64.67 Euros a Month
Salomon has a factory in Romania where Montly Minimum Wage is 140.64 Euros a Month
Atomic has a factory in Bulgaria where Montly Minimum Wage is 112.49 Euros a Month
The minimum wage in Beijing China is 84.57 Euros a month.

I am not saying that this is the amount the workers in every factory make, but it seems that China is pretty comparable to the wages of Eastern Europe, where you don't care if your skis are made.

I am not writing this so that you quite buying skis from Salomon, Atomic, or Fischer, but to remind you that if you refuse to buy products from China you are just making your life more complicated than it needs to be.

money apart, maybe democracy or not makes a difference....

[karpiel]

Let's all buy American so those companies are in such high demand they have to move production overseas. Win win?

[Ryan Pringnitz]

There are some American companies..like Moment, PM, and Praxis that I really like, however..all in all...why would you want something made in America in the first place...in my experience American made stuff sucks (cars, tv's, computers)...so why would American made skis be any better? China, America, Spain, France, Estonia..whatever..just give me some skis...

Hmmmm.....What American computers have you bought? Really think about it, lots of capacitors, mosfets, you name its, and more inside a computer. I don't think any computer can be made in America. Last I knew 90% of the notebooks were made in a few cities in China for example.

[XXX-er]

yup lenovo bought the IBM PC business 4 years back and thats china,from the sounds of it their laptops were better after lenovo took over

the last time I bought into that buy canadian thing was a Navarro drysuit a piece of shit ,I had the pants replaced twice and the top once ... now I buy Kokatat exclusively,they are american and they do make the best .

A company does NOT get carte blanche to do whatever they want and still have my business just cuz they are canadian ...if there are 2 products on a shelf and one has a canadian flag that means nothing to me I pick the best product