Intuition liners

[Danno]

This seems like a good thread to ask this possibly dumb question:

I bought a pair of "Alpine" liners for my old scarpa TX Pros, molded them and skied maybe 20 days.

Then bought a newer pair of TX Pros that had the stock scarpa liners. Molded those and they work ok, but they feel like they are rapidly packing out.

Can I swap the Alpine liners in without remolding? I assume the boots are close to/almost identical, but there may be slight differences. Obviously, the side that's molded to my feet are already molded well, but will I need to remold because the outside of the liner might not perfectly match the boot?

[mn_teleswede]

In my experience moving between TX comps , I did not have to rebake.
I did heat gun one toe box to give myself a little bit more room though.
Spend a day or 2 in them and make a decision from there. Should be fairly obvious ime

[uglymoney]

You can swap them most likely. I did that going from older Cochise 120 to newer 130 and it worked great. I asked a couple of people I consider knowledgeable before I did it and they also approved.

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[Danno]

Thanks, I'll give it a whirl.

[Adrgha]

I toured with luxury liners in my khions for years. It was ok as long as I fully opened and took the buckles off the ladders. It does feel a bit weird when I do back to them from a boot with a touring liner. It's kinda bad at boot packing and terrible downclimbing. Not really an issue. I never downclimb as I full send all my lines.

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Agreed. I have Luxury liners in my Hoji free's, and while they fixed all the fitment issues I had with the original liners, they do require me to fully open all buckles for touring (which kind of negates the point of the "pants down" Hoji lock thing, I guess. Heh). And as you said, rearward articulation feels somewhat awkward. Forward motion is OK as long as you unbuckle properly.

Either way it's an OK compromise, as the boots weren't really usable with the stock liners for me, and they ski great with the Luxury's.

[kootenayskier]

Anybody, cough…GoldenBC, have experience using the Dreamliner or Luxury in their touring boot. I’m curious as talking with the guys at Skookum in Revy, they claim a lot of the locals use the Dreamliner to tour in. As you Golden, I don’t want to go with the Pro Tour as there’s too many seems/stitching on the ankle bones and the TourWraps just don’t have enough substance on the shin. I’m about ready to order a Dream LV for the Radicals, need a denser liner than stock.

And…what exactly is the difference between Dream and Luxury?

I’m using Dreamliners in my Hoji Frees. I didn’t notice any loss in touring performance from the stock liners, they’re just fine (as a 1500gm descent-focused boot is going to be) on multi-day slog fests, and the skiing performance, comfort, and warmth are all significantly improved. I put Pro-Tours in my ski-mo slippers, where maximum range of ankle movement is more critical, but they’re uncomfortable, sloppy, and weak (I tore off the top of one) around the cut outs, and I won’t buy them again. Luxury liners have a thicker sole, to take up volume or to use without footbeds. I used the Alpine (wrap) liner for years, which also worked great in various touring boots, I just needed more forward lean in my Hojis.

[GoldenBC]

General Intuition survey below

Would your dream touring liner be full HD foam(silver stuff) like the HD race or Powerwrap, around your ankle or dual density (stiff HD silver outside soft black inside) like the FX Race?

Do you generally find the full HD foam too hard or abrasive?

Do you find the black foam has enough integrity to give you heel hold where you normally wouldn’t have it?

Greg, Dave, Rob, definitely keen to hear your thoughts based on customers too.

[SeatownSlackey]

Exactly my gripe with tour wraps. I’d probably prefer full hd foam but dual density would be a nice improvement. Find I vastly prefer my pro wraps for this very reason. That and the Strobel / no foam sole


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[Tailwind]

Full Silver HD foam would be my vote.

I’ve been less than thrilled with tour wraps. The thinner foam in the lower hasn’t worked and I’ve repeatedly tweaked to try to take up space. The heel has just felt sloppy for most of my time in them. I did 70-80 days in them and they were “okay” but didn’t accomplish what I want which is really precise heel hold and instep pressure.

I’m now trying a MV pro tour with a HV tongue (working on getting this pulled together). I would have jumped at burlier touring liner in a heartbeat even if it gave up a little walk flexibility and comfort. The pro tour skis better for me but I’d still love a stiffer heel. I notice a HUGE difference in powerwraps.

General Intuition survey below

Would your dream touring liner be full HD foam(silver stuff) like the HD race or Powerwrap, around your ankle or dual density (stiff HD silver outside soft black inside) like the FX Race?

Do you generally find the full HD foam too hard or abrasive?

Do you find the black foam has enough integrity to give you heel hold where you normally wouldn’t have it?

Greg, Dave, Rob, definitely keen to hear your thoughts based on customers too.

[bthomson22]

Full Silver HD foam would be my vote.
I’m now trying a MV pro tour with a HV tongue (working on getting this pulled together).

Did you go with the power tongue or flex tongue? I'm in a MV Pro Tour now and was thinking about getting an HV tongue to help take up some additional space. Wondering if the power tongue has more material, thus driving the heel back even more (at the lower part of the tongue).

[Duffman]

Exactly my gripe with tour wraps. I’d probably prefer full hd foam but dual density would be a nice improvement. Find I vastly prefer my pro wraps for this very reason. That and the Strobel / no foam sole


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ProWrap is by far my fav of the intuitions for my chicken ankles with big instep and wider toes , but the ROM sucks for touring boots, just like a Powerwrap, maybe worse bc it's a bit stiffer

As an aside, is it possible to get as much vertical and toe volume in a powerwrap as a ProWrap if they are baked right, or does all that extra foam on the sole and toes eat up volume no matter what .

[Tailwind]

I did the flex. I considered power but they’re out of stock in my size.

I think the volume should be similar but the power doesn’t have a flex joint. Maybe without the joint there is a bit more material but I’m not sure… I’ll just ordered them so I’ll report back once they arrive. I think the HV liner is a BIG difference from the MV so I’m hoping the tongue will be noticeable.

Did you go with the power tongue or flex tongue? I'm in a MV Pro Tour now and was thinking about getting an HV tongue to help take up some additional space. Wondering if the power tongue has more material, thus driving the heel back even more (at the lower part of the tongue).

[Shorty_J]

Exactly my gripe with tour wraps. I’d probably prefer full hd foam but dual density would be a nice improvement. Find I vastly prefer my pro wraps for this very reason. That and the Strobel / no foam sole


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Intuition website says the pro tour is dual density. I think the HD foam is just in the vuff area?

I agree that I have heel hold issues. I also find that my boots go on tight but seem to pack out over even a short day of touring... and I feel like I need to buckle them more than I should need to for my descent.

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[GoldenBC]

Intuition website says the pro tour is dual density. I think the HD foam is just in the vuff area?

I agree that I have heel hold issues. I also find that my boots go on tight but seem to pack out over even a short day of touring... and I feel like I need to buckle them more than I should need to for my descent.

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That’s the problem with thermo moldable liners that don’t have intergrated heel cups. You heat mold a heel cup and then go skiing and heat it up so it’s useless.

[GoldenBC]

Thanks for the feedback. I ended up heat molding myself a HD Race. Any softer above the heel and I think it wouldn’t do anything. A soft felt layer would do wonders inside an HD liner.

I don’t love how much volume they put behind and beside the heel. It kills toe room and makes it very difficult to feel like your heel sits down all the way, and I don’t see any benefit.

Has anyone tried shaving down the foam around the heel to create a pre shaped thinner pocket (from the outside)? I was thinking that or making a clamp that packs it the fuck out. Or are the any molding tips to help with that?

[Shorty_J]

That’s the problem with thermo moldable liners that don’t have intergrated heel cups. You heat mold a heel cup and then go skiing and heat it up so it’s useless.

Interesting. Do the HD foam liners have heel cups?

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[GoldenBC]

There’s the slightest contour out of the box but it’s basically just a double layer of HD foam in a cylinder. It molds into a heel cup but it’s still very thick beside and behind.

[sb]

I have had problems for touring with tongue liners, much prefer the wraps. Dual density sounds great but it would need to be just right proportions and locashuns.

HD seems the best to me.

Even though i have good luck with off the shelf green superfeet i am having my buddy do a custom foot bed this year.

[GoldenBC]

I have had problems for touring with tongue liners, much prefer the wraps. Dual density sounds great but it would need to be just right proportions and locashuns.

HD seems the best to me.

Even though i have good luck with off the shelf green superfeet i am having my buddy do a custom foot bed this year.

What were the problems touring with tongue liners? They will typically have a bigger ROM. Which wrap liner were you touring in? How much touring?

[sb]

The tongue would work its way down on my right the worst, in spite of being tied well. I still have them as back up liners. It was only a problem when skin climbing steeps in my Merc boots. If i do not need the ROM i live in the basic wraps.


No long approaches but fairly steep skinning for our 1200+ vert to the summit and back to the cabin.

[bthomson22]

I did the flex. I considered power but they’re out of stock in my size.

I think the volume should be similar but the power doesn’t have a flex joint. Maybe without the joint there is a bit more material but I’m not sure… I’ll just ordered them so I’ll report back once they arrive. I think the HV liner is a BIG difference from the MV so I’m hoping the tongue will be noticeable.

I just got my HV Powers in. Definitely taking up more space on the instep. I think some heat will work it out. Space around shins feels sooooo much better.

Compared to the flex's I took out, I'm lead to believe that the power does have even more material on the instep area. And I imagine it wont compress as easily. Hoping that's a good thing?

[CaliBrit]

The full hd foam is too hard for a touring liner and causes blisters. There needs to be some squish as your foot moves a bit in the liner. Not the case for an alpine boot.

[Duffman]

Does a PowerWrap inherently take up more toe and instep volume than a ProWrap of the same size (because of the stroble footbed) or can you bake the bejeesus out of a Powerwrap and compress it enough to fit a tight instep area?

[Andyski]

I wish I’d just gotten another pair of alpine wraps instead of wasting a few years fucking with pro tours and then tour wraps for my touring boots. Even the plug wraps in my TLT5/6s are better than pro tours and tour wraps. Yeah, the tour liners have more ROM, but the tongue moves around and the skiing performance is meh in the pro tours and the scratchy foam and disappearing heel hold in the tour wraps are annoying as hell.

[Dromond]

Exactly my gripe with tour wraps. I’d probably prefer full hd foam but dual density would be a nice improvement. Find I vastly prefer my pro wraps for this very reason. That and the Strobel / no foam sole


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Pro Wraps are my favorite liner, which I am touring and skiing alpine with. I wish there was a touring version with some sort of minimal “flex zone” to reduce the resistance for skinning.