Pro ans cons of carrying your avy stuff inbounds

[nesta]

Recommendations? Besides surveyor's tape, that is, or using a metal detector.

Ortovox ski maus? Don't know if they're still making them- haven't seen them on a pair of skis in years. I know SOS make a sled bug for snowmobiles- not sure about the weight of them as a practical use on skis- maybe mounted right behind the bindings?
I suppose in the backcountry you could always use Recco as the receivers are mostly assigned to ski resorts, but then where are you going to get the receiver to go look for your ski? Plus you would never be able to ski within the resort boundaries on those skis.

[Hugh Conway]

Don't believe the Ski Maus is made anymore

For SOS Snow Bug or Sled Bug
http://www.sos-find.com/pages/beacons.html

[Alpine Dreams]

I always have me gear with me (I keep everything in one gear bag). I'm going to start wearing it inbounds all the time! Started today at Loveland. Be safe!

[mb2778]

there's always the old streamer tucked in your boot cuff trick. that should help find the skis when they submarine, and isn't likely to get anyone killed.

[This End Up]

This question has probably been asked before but;

Is a beacon search part of ski patrol’s procedure for an inbounds slide? I'd guess more than 90% of people in the resort don't have beacons.

If you are skiing alone (i.e. no one knows you are wearing a beacon), and are buried in an inbounds slide, would ski patrol try a beacon search?

[hafilax]

The beacon is primarily for companion rescue. Unless you have an avalung it's more likely a body recovery mission by the time patrol gets there.

OTOH all patrol should have beacons if a slide just went so I'm sure it would be the first thing they would try. If someone knows that the victim has a beacon even better.

[Hugh Conway]

Is a beacon search part of ski patrol’s procedure for an inbounds slide?

Yes.....

[nesta]

Absolutely.
The hasty search team is establishing further hazard, exact location of the avalanche, estimate of size and resources that will be needed, scuff & transceiver search, entry & exit tracks, marking of clues found ( and checking them for attached body parts) and random probing of likely burial areas. This team may consist of only 1 person, but ideally would be at least 3.
If the ski area has dogs, they would be dispatched to any and all slides inbounds as soon as it's reported, as would the Recco. Both these recovery methods may or may not get to the scene immediately, whereas the Hasty team will get there as quickly as humanly possible. As I've said before, the scuff search and the transceiver search are the 2 fastest ways to save your ass. Another reason why patrollers should be wearing a transceiver at all times, and be equipped with probe & shovel.

[MultiVerse]

I never liked wearing a pack on lift served days out of fear of going for a ride if a strap/buckle caught on the chair plus the issue of taking it off or sitting hunched forward wasn’t very appealing. But the inbounds snowbird accident forced a rethink and I picked up a Black Diamond Bandit (690 cubic inches) Avalung pack off of craigslist and wore it and all my avi gear today at Solitude. The pack is the perfect size and the perfect profile for riding the chairs and now it just seems stupid not to wear all of it while skiing honeycomb canyon or any other expert resort “boundary” areas. It also sounds like one of last weekend’s avalanche victims suffered serious spinal injuries so I felt safer wearing a pack with a shovel in it even though I haven’t read any research that supports such a claim.

[nesta]

I never liked wearing a pack on lift served days out of fear of going for a ride if a strap/buckle caught on the chair plus the issue of taking it off or sitting hunched forward wasn’t very appealing. But the inbounds snowbird accident forced a rethink and I picked up a Black Diamond Bandit (690 cubic inches) Avalung pack off of craigslist and wore it and all my avi gear today at Solitude. The pack is the perfect size and the perfect profile for riding the chairs and now it just seems stupid not to wear all of it while skiing honeycomb canyon or any other expert resort “boundary” areas. It also sounds like one of last weekend’s avalanche victims suffered serious spinal injuries so I felt safer wearing a pack with a shovel in it even though I haven’t read any research that supports such a claim.

the avalanche that broke my back (T10) also left a nice crease in the Voile shovel blade which was in my pack at the time and one in the internal moldable spine thingy in an Arcteryx Bora 40. It used to be said that you should ditch your pack if caught, but the current school of thought has changed on that one. I can testify to that same pack helping save me protection wise as I bounced off a large tree spine first near the start of my ride in another fairly serious avalanche. ( I was basically OK in this one but went for a hell of a ride). So that's 2X that pack has saved my bacon in one way or another...I still have it and use it.
As for chair riding with pack, the best is to not wear it on the ride and even disembarking, have it ready in front of you so that no straps are going to get caught in the chair, or if you do wear it ( and the resort allows you to do this) make sure the waist buckle is done up.

[nomensteven]

This question has probably been asked before but;

Is a beacon search part of ski patrol’s procedure for an inbounds slide? I'd guess more than 90% of people in the resort don't have beacons.

If you are skiing alone (i.e. no one knows you are wearing a beacon), and are buried in an inbounds slide, would ski patrol try a beacon search?

Recco receivers have a built in beacon antenna, so when you use it you are searching for both.

[geo039]

All gear all the time in Euroland. After 3 years wearing my pack every time out is like second nature. It acutally feels weird to not have it with my.

[nesta]

Recco receivers have a built in beacon antenna, so when you use it you are searching for both.

They are now, but were not prior to last year. We still don't have the new receivers. Patrollers are always wearing their transceivers, so like I have said (ad nauseum) a scuff & transceiver search should be the first searches performed. They are the fastest means to locate someone: fastest=scuff, second fastest= transceiver. This goes for patrollers/organized rescuers & companions. Recco receivers are unlikely to be on scene as quickly as beacons, same as dogs. Depending on depth of burial, consistency of debris, contamination of debris, temperature, other weather conditions and other factors, canine finds can either be fairly quick, or could be delayed. Once the scent makes the surface, it's as quick as it takes the dog to be taken through the scent cone. But for victims without transceivers, Recco or other electronic devices that a Recco receiver may pick up, dogs are by far the best recovery tool. Properly trained avalanche search and rescue dog teams can be more efficient than SAR teams. The dog teams can search an area of approximately 1 Ha in 30 min. for a coarse search, and 1-2 hrs. for a fine search. In comparison, a probe line would take 4 hrs for a coarse search, and 20 hrs. for a fine search.

[muted]

As for chair riding with pack, the best is to not wear it on the ride and even disembarking, have it ready in front of you so that no straps are going to get caught in the chair, or if you do wear it ( and the resort allows you to do this) make sure the waist buckle is done up.

I've skied with packs hundreds of days on chairs and found that wearing it completely unbuckled prevents you from dangling from the chair as you can slip out of it easy.

It also helps to have all the outside strap buckles tight and buckled, those things get wedged in weird places.

[nesta]

I've skied with packs hundreds of days on chairs and found that wearing it completely unbuckled prevents you from dangling from the chair as you can slip out of it easy.

It also helps to have all the outside strap buckles tight and buckled, those things get wedged in weird places.

Yeah but then everybody else has to wait while the liftie unsticks the pack from the chair on the other side of the bullwheel, or you're packless until you ski to the bottom of the chair to retrieve it, even though you're able to slip away, but one of the straps or buckles somehow gets wedged. That's only slightly less embarrassing than if you were hanging in it. You're right about the other buckles on your pack though- I was going to mention that besides just the waist strap, but didn't. I've also skied with packs hundreds of days riding chairlifts, and I've only been tied up once when I wasn't paying attention using the put-the-pack-back-on-after-getting-off method
(something got snagged by the chair)- I had to ski to the bottom and get my pack. I also had to do it making sure no other fellow patroller saw me doing it- that would have been beer for sure!

[monkeywrenchMoose]

JONG question alert. What is a scuff search?

[nesta]

basically a search of the surface, looking primarily for body parts sticking out of the snow or possibly just under the surface but visible, looking for other clues such as equipment, articles of clothing etc which could indicate a line of travel, and marking them somehow, preferably with ICAR standard wanding, checking any said equipment for attached body parts and possibly a quick probe around the equipment, but replacing any equipment found where you found it. Also noting or marking (preferably) a last seen point(s) and any entry or exit tracks. I said surface of the debris, but that includes looking for skis and poles, articles of clothing up in tree branches and maybe in the surrounding snow off the debris as some victims are blown beyond the avalanche deposit.

[BFD]

you can carry all the safety gear you want. Bottom line if you cannot recognize avalanche terrain and conditions you do not belong there wether inbounds or B.C.

[Hugh Conway]

you can carry all the safety gear you want. Bottom line if you cannot recognize avalanche terrain and conditions you do not belong there wether inbounds or B.C.

run along dear, mantalk <slaps BFD in the ass>

[monkeywrenchMoose]

Thanks nesta. Now I know.

[GoNads]

Pro: You might survive an inbounds slide, as they seem to be happening every day here at WB. You can also help search for victims if you come across a slide path.

Con: Can't really think of any, the snowpack is FUCKED right now, and people are dying on a daily basis here.

[vtdownhiller]

Not to get away from the discussion, but since we are talking packs here,.... is it the same policy to remove your packs on the new tram at Jackson?

[Jer]

you can carry all the safety gear you want. Bottom line if you cannot recognize avalanche terrain and conditions you do not belong there wether inbounds or B.C.

Ummm......yeah.

Thanks for that, Captain Obvious.

[BFD]

I guess it was obvious to all those dead people wearing beacons. I guess it's obvious to my 17 year old son. he took avie 1 carries all his gear all the time. Still brakes trail over terrain traps rather than going longer way around. Still rolls over a steep convex slope and makes his first turn into the fall line. I would guess there are quite a few posters here who make their skiing decisions on someone else telling them it's safe. Just for discussion what is this poster saying: If you're hiking the pass you had better ski right down what you just hiked up...little Tucks, Glory, and others are all suspect. I saw tracks coming out Calverts and personally wouldn't be caught dead or alive in there right now. The layer is everywhere and new heavy snow isn't going to make anything better until reviewed by Rando and others...

[Jer]

I guess it was obvious to all those dead people wearing beacons. I guess it's obvious to my 17 year old son. he took avie 1 carries all his gear all the time. Still brakes trail over terrain traps rather than going longer way around. Still rolls over a steep convex slope and makes his first turn into the fall line. I would guess there are quite a few posters here who make their skiing decisions on someone else telling them it's safe. Just for discussion what is this poster saying: If you're hiking the pass you had better ski right down what you just hiked up...little Tucks, Glory, and others are all suspect. I saw tracks coming out Calverts and personally wouldn't be caught dead or alive in there right now. The layer is everywhere and new heavy snow isn't going to make anything better until reviewed by Rando and others...

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying this thread is about carrying your gear inbounds. It's kinda like when somebody starts a thread about fat skis and then some guy chimes in with "you know- they're pretty useless on an icy race course". You're welcome to start a thread about making intellegent descisions when skiing in iffy conditions inbounds. In fact, it would probably be a pretty good idea. Most people act like a ski resort is an amusement park.