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Thread: A good example of Surface hoar

  1. #1
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    A good example of Surface hoar

    If you see this growing on the top of the snowpack, beware of the next big dump. It is a very weak layer that can cause Avalanches. This photo is from a hand railing. On the snow the crystal growths look more feathery and have more of a snowflake shape.

  2. #2
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    I saw a very nice example of "surface hoar" in the freezer at the local grocery store.

  3. #3
    Hugh Conway Guest
    who says it never gets cold in the Sierra

  4. #4
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    nice pic. it certainly does stick around for a while. rain, sun and wind before the next dump are good ways to get rid of it. though, you still have to track the layer to see what aspects and elevations it has survived.

  5. #5
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    I'll play. This was after an exceptionally cold week north of whistler.

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  7. #7
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    Frank - that's a wonderful picture. Such a clean fracture line and such a big cohesive block to slide on the line.

  8. #8
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    Sorry Lee - pit.
    The layer was so good and the sun right we had to back dig it for the shot.
    Wolf creek.

  9. #9
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    Frank....that looks crazy dangerous....you long did it take for things to settle?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankZappa View Post
    Tom,

    As a snow nerd I have always loved that photo. But, its a scary photo. It is the perfect example photo of Ian McCammon's 5 Lemons (a field method of identifying structual weakness in the snowpack). The lemons are:

    1) A weak layer within 1 meter of the snow surface.

    2) A weak layer thickness of less than 10 cm thinkness.

    3) A hand hardness difference of greater than one step.

    4) There is a difference in snow grain size of 1 mm or greater, between snow layers.

    5) There are persistent snow gain types (depth hoar, near surface faceted crystals, buried surface hoar and mixed forms) present in the weak layer.

    I see 4 out of 5 lemons (if I could do the hand hardness test, I'll bet there are 5 lemons present) in the photo.

    Buried surface hoar has been know to last upwards of 6 weeks in the snowpack....

    Cheers,
    Halsted
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  11. #11
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    Good stuff

  12. #12
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    Frank-

    That's a phenomenal photo. Nice work.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoWork
    Well we really came up with jong because it was becoming work to call all the johnny-come-lately whiny twats like yourself ball-licking, dick-shitting, butthole-surfing, manyon-sniffing, fotch-fanagling, duck butter spreading, sheep fucking, whiny, pissant, entitled, PMSing, baby dicked, pizza-frenchfrying, desk jockeying flacid excuses for misguided missles of butthurt specifically. That and JONG is just fun to say.
    the-one-track-mind

  13. #13
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    Awesome pic and information - thanks!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankZappa View Post
    clean and scary.

  15. #15
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    For fucks sake Frank, that photo just sent a well nasty chill down my spine. Just off for a bourbon now to settle my nerves again.

    But nice example of a classic layer, they are not always that easy to spot.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwolter7 View Post
    If you see this growing on the top of the snowpack, beware of the next big dump. It is a very weak layer that can cause Avalanches. This photo is from a hand railing. On the snow the crystal growths look more feathery and have more of a snowflake shape.


    probably had something to do with this yesterday:

  17. #17
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  18. #18
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    f2f - that's terrific stuff. Microscope in the field? Or if in a lab under cold conditions?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    f2f - that's terrific stuff. Microscope in the field? Or if in a lab under cold conditions?
    i only have a link to the image so i have no info about the conditions. similar pictures indicate that images at that resolution are taken with a low-temparature scanning electron microscope, so i would imagine they were not taken in the field. wikipedia's page on "snow" has a link to a similar, though not as pretty, picture with somewhat of an explanation.

    edit: found it, linked to from wikipedia: http://emu.arsusda.gov/snowsite/default.html

    the graupel pic is here: http://emu.arsusda.gov/snowsite/rimegraupel/rg.html

    Last edited by f2f; 12-02-2008 at 12:28 PM.

  20. #20
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    wow! more pictures please, these are great!

  21. #21
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    ^^^^^
    It's like a CNC machine carved out that stellar snow flake. Amazing photo.
    "A lack of planning and preparation on your part does not make it an emergency on my part."

  22. #22
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    great pics
    "At least if the species has lost it's animal strength, individual members can have the fun of finding it again..."
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