Wasatch 08-09 Conditions

[The Gnarwhale]

new snow is avalanchy in wind loaded areas.

ski cuts were productive, with 8-14" slabs pulling out along ridgelines and roll overs. a few were remotely triggered by skinning above them on ridgelines. ski cuts on one slope yielded a shooting crack that traveled ~100' out from ski tips. soft slabs were sliding on the old snow surface and did not seem to be moving fast or far. the new snow was a bit upside down which no doubt helped with the energetic propagation.

[MultiVerse]

Went up LCC in the AM but avoided the ridges because visibility approached zero the higher you went and because of the expected wind loading. The new snow was not yet—completely—bonded, though, and the newer stuff was coming in as graupel… not 2% this time around so no bouncing off the crust either.

[skibunny20]

Went up an uber-secret spot where everyone goes in LCC with ruletherock and found some good turns on north-facing aspects above 8000 feet... One ridgeline running northwest to southeast was heavily wind-loaded on the eastern aspect and looked like it could rip under any force from a skier. Nothing moved of what we skied, though. Everything was surprisingly stable, aside from the numerous pinwheels and small wet sluffs that were in the sun in the afternoon.

It's spring out there.

[Xover]

heard that earlier in the day, ski cuts weren't enough to produce much activity; but bombs sent alot down on the same slope(s).

skied perfect windbuff inbounds for the last few hours at Utah's new surf break, Alta. then did a dusky across the road.

west facing below about 9k will have a slight, but very maneagble zipper on it first thing tomorrow morn. east facing is definitely packing an upside down punch. south facing was surfy sickness top to bottom and north facing, protected held some 10% fluff.

by the end of the day, everything was welded into place ... thanks spring. of note though is the spike in w/nw winds mid day; keep an eye on the leeward slopes for early tomorrow.

hopefully the clouds will stay at bay most of the morning tomorrow. this winter just keeps on giving; so beautiful out tonight and so much fun. couldn't stop laughing the whole way down and giggling out loud as i skied right to the tailgate of my truck.

[criscam]

skied lower elevevation, ne terrain last evening. creamy. only minor sluffing noticed. some big cornices on n-s ridge.

[nieveparasiempre]

DP'd up the main sheep pen gauntlet (Black Knob) today. The party ahead of us kicked off a small slab that only broke 8" deep but ran for at least 300 ft (past the roll over and out of sight in the photo) on a SE Aspect. Not big enough to bury you but could def take you for a ride. Looked like it failed with in the new snow, not at the New Snow-Old Surface interface.

We saw 2 more isolated pockets that didn't have any juice to run.

[the vor]

Superior was getting hammered, along with toledo this morning. Lots of folks out enjoying things. As hinted at by Xover, ski cuts didn't produce any movement on the wind-loaded aspects and drifts seemed pretty stubborn. That sun late afternoon yesterday was just about perfect, enough to stabilize but not too much to ruin. Not too much sun this morning and things were still pretty good, South facing was indeed awesome surfing. Best exit down to sheep pen central station in a while.

[MultiVerse]

I was with one of the groups on Flagstaff / Sup early in the morning. Really nice powder and windbuff with manageable snow but later there was a slide on superior (human triggered I think; but maybe UDOT) that ran on the top third of the mountain:


Otherwise, stability improved with warmer temps. At lower elevations the warming snow was a little grabby but up high all aspects still held excellent turns. Part two of the tour involved skiing whatever looked good in the sheep pen and hanging out with the BC jibbers:

[The Gnarwhale]

cornice stomp triggered soft slab that traveled down to the headwall apron. ~6" deep running within the new snow.

[beaterdit]

I was with one of the groups on Flagstaff / Sup early in the morning. Really nice powder and windbuff with manageable snow but later there was a slide on superior (human triggered I think; but maybe UDOT) that ran on the top third of the mountain:


Otherwise, stability improved with warmer temps. At lower elevations the warming snow was a little grabby but up high all aspects still held excellent turns. Part two of the tour involved skiing whatever looked good in the sheep pen and hanging out with the BC jibbers:

Yeah that was me. We took a lap on the N side before skinning back up to ski the S face. The sun was definitely starting to affect the snow on the S, we prolly should have forgone the N side but the snow was good back there.

I dropped in west of the summit where the cornice eased and crossed that rock rib to my line. I ski cut across the top and a small windslab broke about 50' wide but only about 4" deep. It entrailed quite a bit of snow with it on it's way down though and prolly ran about 1000'. It ran on the new/old interface and there was a more pronounced crust on that aspect. After it went down I worked the area skier's L of the slide and found deeper, more stable snow without the hard crust underneath.

Good skiing overall bu the Sun's had it's way with it now.

[Xover]

guys (and gals ),

I am not saying anybody did anything wrong nor am I attempting to point fingers, but please - please - please consider what and whom is below you when above highly traveled roads, buildings, towns, popular skinners, etc. when doing whatever in the bc.

glad, you are ski cutting, accessing your own party's stability, etc. but when on such faces as 'Sup, Flagg, Emmas, Lawnmover, Stairs, etc. etc. etc. it ain't only 'bout your party, but also includes the other "forgotten" element of the 2-3hundreds below you that has no f'ing clue you are up there. this shit ain't twin peaks, lone peak, timp, nebo, etc.

would hate to be the cause/see/read about any of us cutting loose something we never, ever thought would happen upon innocent bystanders. i am pretty much sure i would just grab a gun and shoot myself in the head and back of the throat on the top of whatever peak i was on at that point in time.

sorry for the "soapbox"; just needed to keep things honest 'round here, blow off some steam and offer up my $0.02. please, just be cogniscent of who and what are below you and let it influence all of your decisions.

have a good, safe weekend all.

[Skidog]

guys (and gals ),

I am not saying anybody did anything wrong nor am I attempting to point fingers, but please - please - please consider what and whom is below you when above highly traveled roads, buildings, towns, popular skinners, etc. when doing whatever in the bc.

glad, you are ski cutting, accessing your own party's stability, etc. but when on such faces as 'Sup, Flagg, Emmas, Lawnmover, Stairs, etc. etc. etc. it ain't only 'bout your party, but also includes the other "forgotten" element of the 2-3hundreds below you that has no f'ing clue you are up there. this shit ain't twin peaks, lone peak, timp, nebo, etc.

would hate to be the cause/see/read about any of us cutting loose something we never, ever thought would happen upon innocent bystanders. i am pretty much sure i would just grab a gun and shoot myself in the head and back of the throat on the top of whatever peak i was on at that point in time.

sorry for the "soapbox"; just needed to keep things honest 'round here, blow off some steam and offer up my $0.02. please, just be cogniscent of who and what are below you and let it influence all of your decisions.

have a good, safe weekend all.

Excellent point Xover......thanks for posting.

[otter]

guys (and gals ),

I am not saying anybody did anything wrong nor am I attempting to point fingers, but please - please - please consider what and whom is below you when above highly traveled roads, buildings, towns, popular skinners, etc. when doing whatever in the bc.

glad, you are ski cutting, accessing your own party's stability, etc. but when on such faces as 'Sup, Flagg, Emmas, Lawnmover, Stairs, etc. etc. etc. it ain't only 'bout your party, but also includes the other "forgotten" element of the 2-3hundreds below you that has no f'ing clue you are up there. this shit ain't twin peaks, lone peak, timp, nebo, etc.

would hate to be the cause/see/read about any of us cutting loose something we never, ever thought would happen upon innocent bystanders. i am pretty much sure i would just grab a gun and shoot myself in the head and back of the throat on the top of whatever peak i was on at that point in time.

sorry for the "soapbox"; just needed to keep things honest 'round here, blow off some steam and offer up my $0.02. please, just be cogniscent of who and what are below you and let it influence all of your decisions.

have a good, safe weekend all.

Good reminder cupcake!

[the vor]

Very spring like today. Couldn't stay cool enough, guess I should have been in shorts and t-shirt. Sticky snow was good for skinning, decent for skiing. Definetely manky down low. Wet slide on Southeast aspect, with prior wind-loading, broke right below the wind lip. Entrained snow on the way down, went for several hundred feet??? Not sure, couldn't see but about 50 feet in front of yourself, but could hear it continue on a ways. Graupel like crazy, with some thunder for fun, when leaving. Character-building and learning day.

[leroy jenkins]

guys (and gals ),

I am not saying anybody did anything wrong nor am I attempting to point fingers, but please - please - please consider what and whom is below you when above highly traveled roads, buildings, towns, popular skinners, etc. when doing whatever in the bc.

glad, you are ski cutting, accessing your own party's stability, etc. but when on such faces as 'Sup, Flagg, Emmas, Lawnmover, Stairs, etc. etc. etc. it ain't only 'bout your party, but also includes the other "forgotten" element of the 2-3hundreds below you that has no f'ing clue you are up there. this shit ain't twin peaks, lone peak, timp, nebo, etc.

would hate to be the cause/see/read about any of us cutting loose something we never, ever thought would happen upon innocent bystanders. i am pretty much sure i would just grab a gun and shoot myself in the head and back of the throat on the top of whatever peak i was on at that point in time.

sorry for the "soapbox"; just needed to keep things honest 'round here, blow off some steam and offer up my $0.02. please, just be cogniscent of who and what are below you and let it influence all of your decisions.

have a good, safe weekend all.

Thats the first and only good reason I've heard to not skin with a gun.

[Xover]

Thats the first and only good reason I've heard to not skin with a gun.

... other than to shoot WRA in his left ass cheek for heckling members of his own touring party from above them

my "Tramdeck Obs" from today: only had an hour or so to burn in the a.m. so headed up to the Wasatch's Only Surfbreak. low angle, straight north facing offered up the goodness. soft base with frosting on top was fun for sure. made me wish i had 4-5 more hours to go do some meadow skipping and pester the likes of maynerd, antitrust, etc.

definitely not sure how things shaped up in the p.m. but the middle of next week sounds like fun. gotta love this end of march + all of f'ing april

[climbhigh1119]

So while up on the ridge above Cardiff today some skiers down in the flats yelled up to us that we shouldn't come down because the landowner and the sheriff were handing out tickets for trespassing right at the base of cardiac bowl. I could hear the snowmobiles and barely see them due to the poor visibility. Does anybody know what is up with this? I know that much of lower Cardiff down by Doughnut Falls is private land, but I had no idea that it extended so far up the drainage. How far up does the private land go?

On a side note, a significant part of the ski out the south face of Little Superior was a combination of avalanche debri and horrendous visbility. Definitely a character building experience.

[leroy jenkins]

So while up on the ridge above Cardiff today some skiers down in the flats yelled up to us that we shouldn't come down because the landowner and the sheriff were handing out tickets for trespassing right at the base of cardiac bowl. I could hear the snowmobiles and barely see them due to the poor visibility. Does anybody know what is up with this? I know that much of lower Cardiff down by Doughnut Falls is private land, but I had no idea that it extended so far up the drainage. How far up does the private land go?

On a side note, a significant part of the ski out the south face of Little Superior was a combination of avalanche debri and horrendous visbility. Definitely a character building experience.

Utah might be different, but I thought that in MT and CO at least, if its not marked with obvious signage and/or fenced off, they don't have the right to do shit.

[otter]

So while up on the ridge above Cardiff today some skiers down in the flats yelled up to us that we shouldn't come down because the landowner and the sheriff were handing out tickets for trespassing right at the base of cardiac bowl. I could hear the snowmobiles and barely see them due to the poor visibility. Does anybody know what is up with this? I know that much of lower Cardiff down by Doughnut Falls is private land, but I had no idea that it extended so far up the drainage. How far up does the private land go?

On a side note, a significant part of the ski out the south face of Little Superior was a combination of avalanche debri and horrendous visbility. Definitely a character building experience.

I don't know if this has anything to do with what you are talking about, but yesterday we were on top of wolverine and heard and saw snowmobiles down on lake marry area. I don't know what was going on, but I don't think they are allowed back there. Couldn't see very well because of the fog so I don't know what was going on.

[Researcher]

So lets say that property that has been in YOUR family for over 100 years happens to be in a great place for skiing. You let people recreate and play on YOUR family land because its the nice thing to do, and people who enjoy the mountains are nice, and its all good.
Then within the last 10 years- (some longer...but most less) people move to town and decide that it can't be your property. It is too nice to belong to you, and they like to ski there too much to allow you access your land. I mean these people (found) the place ten years ago (after reading the guidebook) and now kind of should decide who uses it. This person Cannot be happy sharing the land with helicopter skiers, other skiers and especially the rednecks who have the nerve to access their own property by snowmobile. These new arrivals are so upset by others using "Their" ski terrain they are absolutely rude to anyone they encounter and dedicate themselves to eradicating any kind of "different" use. (IE anyone who isn't just like them, lets say: wearing an Arcteryx jacket, Dynafits and a camera to document their rad day on the internet.)
If it was YOUR LAND... it might piss you off if someone you allowed on your land was a complete and total rude asshole to you. Yelled at you, pulled down your signs, started and supported orgainzations to make your land useless, and try to take it away. You might even get so dissapointed that you decide to close it to anyone without your permission.

Bottom Line:
You should be careful about who you are a dick to. They just might own the ground you are standing on. If people were just willing to show respect for others, share, tolerate, and be nice to eachother in the mountains (god forbid be friendly) there might not be an issue. It may however be too late, and you have no one to blame but yourselves when you need an access pass to ski Cardiac. (end rant)

[alto]

If bro Arcterex came along and was a dick, that's not cool.

My belief is that the mountains belong to no one. Landholders in the mountains, or in a spot which bars access to the mountains are my enemy. Trying to keep people off the hills is as good a grounds for a battle as any.

Was just in Europe for a spell. Did you know all the mountains and ski areas are public domain! The lift companies only manage just that, the lifts. The access and use is all public priority first.

[PROVO]

Yesterday my group was also heckled for skiing some west facing couloirs into cardiff fork. I ski in that area maybe once a year if im lucky. I was surprised to see snowmobilers highmarking in cardiff all day and was even more surprised that we were getting yelled at for skiing down the mountain. We never went to the valley floor, but they were hollering at us all day to come on down and talk. The one day I go up there and sledders are buzzing around all day and we get yelled at for skiing some wasatch classics!!! Maybe someone owns a little cabin or something down there, but im certain no one owns the mountain tops. correct me if im wrong.

here's on observation: You couldn't see fuck all yesterday!

[TeleThor]

Yesterday my group was also heckled for skiing some west facing couloirs into cardiff fork. I ski in that area maybe once a year if im lucky. I was surprised to see snowmobilers highmarking in cardiff all day and was even more surprised that we were getting yelled at for skiing down the mountain. We never went to the valley floor, but they were hollering at us all day to come on down and talk. The one day I go up there and sledders are buzzing around all day and we get yelled at for skiing some wasatch classics!!! Maybe someone owns a little cabin or something down there, but im certain no one owns the mountain tops. correct me if im wrong.

here's on observation: You couldn't see fuck all yesterday!

Provo, were you in the group that came down Hallway, got harassed, snuck away, and booted back up Reed & Benson out? Our group of three came down before you (if that was you), made the mistake of skiing the Tube almost to the bottom and got rounded up by Buxton and his boys.

We were as polite as possible, didn't give them any shit, and they were friendly enough. Basically told us that we had "good attitudes" and just to go "educate all of our friends that 80% of Cardiff is private property." Then the dude in camo turned out to be the Sheriff's Deputy. He said he was just making sure everyone played nice. We got added to the list. No fine, but if they catch us back there again, we'd get a fine.

Then one of the other land owners up there came down on his snowmobile and started talking to us. He was pleasant enough, but yammered on and on for 40 minutes about owner's rights, Save the Canyons, Alta, Dick Bass, the watershed, etc. I don't know how valid this is, but he said that because of Save the Canyons, the pro watershed people, and the percentage of bc skiers that give them shit about being on their own land, if there isn't some amicable agreement made within a year or two, they're going to start take serious action against trespassers all over the place, since a lot of the ridgelines, summits, and forks have private holdings in them. That would suck.

Sorry for all that, but just be aware when you're back in Cardiff. For now, be nice and you won't get fined. I for one was surpised at how much of the land in Cardiff (and Days, Silver, and on ridgelines) this guy claimed were private land, and could be revoked from bc skiing in the future. Dunno about the truth to it yet.

Quick obs from Saturday: Mashers on a crust in sheltered W-facing. Glad I had rockered tips. Mid-afternoon S-facing, Provo was right, you couldn't see fuck. Like skiing in ping pong balls. Snow was actually kind of fun though. Until you went flying blindly off a hidden cornice that snuck up on you...

Some stoke from the day, taken by my buddy Steve:

[Trackhead]

Per the above posts.......this is why the potential lift up Flag is so disturbing.

[Nathan Explosion]

So lets say you had a clue ... nah, that'll never happen.

I bet I'm pretty much on your side on this one, but you should give him a clue, then. Seems to me like 99% of the problems related to the Wasatch stem from a lack of communication. You seem to have a great deal of knowledge about these matters, so it would be cool to be enlightened. Maybe he doesn't want to be, but I'd like to be, even if by PM instead of a post here.

Just sayin'.

Oh, and guys on 'biles harassing BC skiers is not cool in any conditions. I can't think of a single justification for chasing skiers out of your (unusable) land who got there on human power, rather than fuel power.

What happens when this guy who is chasing people off gets himself caught in a slide? Anybody going to help him? (Of course you would, because it's the right thing to do, but it's a legitimate hypothetical situation, because some people are clearly dicks).

I don't have a snow observation because my fuggin' leg hurts, but I went up Guardsman to take some pictures, and was stunned by the 30+ dudes tearing it up on tricked out snowmobiles at 6:30 and later in the evening. You could here these guys from miles away. Kind of ruined the quiet retreat I was hoping for.