Wasatch 08-09 Conditions

**powder_prophet** · 12-23-2008, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Droopy

once the faceted snow rounds out and bonds, the rain crust isnnt really an issue is it?

Faceted snow doesn't round out and bond easily. It takes warm weather (=low temp gradiant in the snow) to get the squares to start to break down. At least here in Colorado, that doesn't happen until Spring. I'm not too knowledgable about the Wasatch snowpack and how it changes throughout a season, but here in CO with our Continental snowpack, facets won't start roudning out for another couple months.

**Particle** · 12-23-2008, 10:51 AM

^^ Utah can get a low temp gradient in the snow by developing a very deep snowpack, so it can heal before the spring cycle unlike much of CO.

**Trackhead** · 12-24-2008, 02:36 PM

12-24-08
Excellent turning conditions in sheltered areas up to 35 degrees in Porter Fork.

Went out solo and met up with some folks, here's their pit........The shear layer was less impressive than in BCC from last week. Take it for what it's worth.

Youtube Vid

**The Gnarwhale** · 12-24-2008, 02:50 PM

Two snowmobilers are dead after triggering an avalanche today on Logan Pk, according to the news.

**TeleThor** · 12-24-2008, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by wra

I learned from Spread Eagle's post. I learned absolutely nothing from the video showing shovel taps in an area that had no snow prior to last week.
You don't have to look ya know, especially since I'm not an ecter, nor do I pay much attention to fluff and facade.

Sorry, some of us have jobs and can't go touring every day. Clearly yourself, the Wiz, won't gain anything from that vid, but others may. We saw a bunch of people traveling in the same location, underneath and over to the ridgeline where shit was collapsing and settling. They could clearly have taken some time to check the snowpack. Don't get your panties in a twist.

**wra** · 12-24-2008, 09:05 PM

Damn, I thought the zig zagger was twisted.

BTW, watch that shit in the middle, didn't go with the rest and may loosen with loading.
Oh, yeah.
Merry Christmas.

**powderwhore** · 12-24-2008, 10:07 PM

I saw a group of four head up Flagstaff this morning. Then I saw that they kicked of a nice slide about halfway up. Then they skied down right next to it!

This was all from Alta. Be safe out there.

**Rudyj2** · 12-25-2008, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by powderwhore

I saw a group of four head up Flagstaff this morning. Then I saw that they kicked of a nice slide about halfway up. Then they skied down right next to it!

This was all from Alta. Be safe out there.

Just to clarify, it was two groups of 2 and one guy solo. Important because one group triggered the slide and walked right past the other group (who was out of sight of the avalanche) and was preparing to ski the same slope that just slid without saying anything about the slide they had just triggered? This group of two was very unfriendly and withheld important info from fellow skiers, maybe it was because of the failed attempt to pass us that led to them getting off route into dangerous terrain.

In other words when I started down the slope I had no idea it had just slid around the corner. I would have stopped and investigated had I known, but I probably would have descended the same way, next to the slide path with it as my escape route.

Scary day made even scarier by a lack of communication between separate parties. As well as poor route choice from the get go by me.

**Trackhead** · 12-25-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Rudyj2

This group of two was very unfriendly and withheld important info from fellow skiers, maybe it was because of the failed attempt to pass us that led to them getting off route into dangerous terrain.

Failed attempt to pass? What does that mean?

**Rudyj2** · 12-25-2008, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Track Head

Failed attempt to pass? What does that mean?

They tried to pass us, got in front and slowed down, wallowed into some hollow snow around some trees and continued to go in a direction I didn't want to go. I continued to break trail along the ridgeline in wind scoured and compacted snow and easily regained the lead. Next time I saw them they where below us and back on our up track. I presume they triggered the avalanche since (when viewed from below) their skin track led right into it.

Failed attempts at passing happen often enough, at least to me and my partner (who is a woman and is convinced it is because of her, some sort of sexist thing, I don't know). For some reason people think you are slow when breaking a trail and decide to pass only to find that they can't go any faster and especially can't route find any better. I usually just end up passing again by putting my own up track in a place I see more fit.

Not to say some of you are not very fast, strong and skilled. I get passed often enough to know I am no speed demon, just slow and steady.

But really, communication between separate parties is the issue here.

**Trackhead** · 12-25-2008, 12:40 PM

^^^^^Funny how that happens. "Let us by, thanks", then the slowdown.

Glad nobody got mangled or worse.

**basinbum** · 12-25-2008, 09:09 PM

im sure most people know but avy hot line today said possibility of going to EXTREME after this storm

Be careful people we've already had enough trouble this year

**Lonnie** · 12-26-2008, 07:59 AM

Yeah, word on the street is that there were lots of folks at alta watching those parties and was amazed at what they saw...

**Rudyj2** · 12-26-2008, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lonnie

Yeah, word on the street is that there were lots of folks at alta watching those parties and was amazed at what they saw...

Not surprised.

I remember the days of my own liftline quarterbacking.

**Trackhead** · 12-27-2008, 02:09 PM

Wondering if anyone knows if this incident is here.

**sfotex** · 12-27-2008, 04:54 PM

Went up Porter's this morning to get the dog out. Dug some pits in west porters on north facing slopes and my columns were falling out when I isolated them. Failing on the facet/crust stuff down low. yuck. I tore up some awesome 20 degree slopes on the way out (cause you know 29 degrees is the new gnar-gnar)

**basinbum** · 12-27-2008, 10:56 PM

up north here went sleddin at monte cristo, just played around on some smaller things but still did things that after taking an avy I class i though for sure would've ripped, big open north eastern loaded faces below a rock band(nothing), cut cornices(small ones) in half (nothing) the only thing we could get to move while trying our hardest (again on small scale) was few inch wind slab. at one point while tearin up open face (previously mentioned) we had a guy stop us and tell us that the avy danger was "nasty" today.
again BE SAFE PEOPLE

**zion zig zag** · 12-27-2008, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by basinbum

up north here went sleddin at monte cristo, just played around on some smaller things but still did things that after taking an avy I class i though for sure would've ripped, big open north eastern loaded faces below a rock band(nothing), cut cornices(small ones) in half (nothing) the only thing we could get to move while trying our hardest (again on small scale) was few inch wind slab. at one point while tearin up open face (previously mentioned) we had a guy stop us and tell us that the avy danger was "nasty" today.
again BE SAFE PEOPLE

I suspect Monte has a completely different snowpack than the cottonwoods or even the Mt Ogden massif. Did you dig a pit? I bet there was no raincrust/facet layer, especially if you were below 8000ft or so.

I also have to wonder why you were trying to get big open faces to rip?

**truth** · 12-28-2008, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I also have to wonder why you were trying to get big open faces to rip?

15 minutes of fame.

**basinbum** · 12-28-2008, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by zion zig zag

I suspect Monte has a completely different snowpack than the cottonwoods or even the Mt Ogden massif. Did you dig a pit? I bet there was no raincrust/facet layer, especially if you were below 8000ft or so.

I also have to wonder why you were trying to get big open faces to rip?

your probably right. i know one point up there is around 9000 though..

big open faces is a relative term... biggest open thing that i knew wouldnt kill me if it did rip

**alto** · 12-28-2008, 08:19 AM

basinbum, what you just said sounds really sketchy.

**Lone Star** · 12-28-2008, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by basinbum

big open faces is a relative term... biggest open thing that i knew wouldnt kill me if it did rip

so.......you ripped an open face the size of a backyard swimming pool?

**ski_adk** · 12-28-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by basinbum

big open faces is a relative term... biggest open thing that i knew wouldnt kill me if it did rip

How big is big? The open thing on little water wasn't that big in the grand scheme of things.

And it sure as hell buried someone deep enough that they WOULD HAVE DIED, if it weren't for the quick action of friends and luck -- I mean look at the burial hole!

4-TEEF · 12-28-2008, 04:58 PM

These shots are from the resort but I thought they were pertinent. If you guys don't want them here let me know and I will delete. All shots are from Saturday, Dec. 27, at about 8:20 a.m. I think that these were all natural releases in the night but I don't know for sure. Hopefully APD will chime in with much more knowledgeable information.

Just up from/below Tram Tower 3. Slope faces North/NE. Estimated elevation 9800' Crown roughly 4' tall. This didn't run very far but the snow boulders in the debris were LARGE. I think just the torque of that amount of snow moving 15 feet would crush/rip a person apart. Might put a different perspective on what some people think of as "safe"...

Mid Cirque. Slope faces North. Estimated elevation 10,500' The next Tram up Patrol had cleaned out the crown and snow above.

Upper Cirque. Slope faces North East (I think...). Estimated elevation 10,750'

Stay safe out there.