Our Sport

[DJSapp]

Originally posted by bad_roo
and her surname rhymes with 'orange'.

Doorhinge. What an odd name.

[1080Rider]

Originally posted by board
No one charges me to hike, but I will be happy to pay more for my season pass if it means less people on the hill.

I think what he means is that it will be more expensive to buy the gear you want. Its just like the auto industry. Chevy has to sell tons of the crappy little cars in order to sell the corvette for the price that they do. If you take away the little cars (the low end skis sold to jong's and ski resorts) your gear will be even more expensive than it is now. Maybe you have a $$$ tree but I like paying less for good products.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by board
maybe I'm just a grumpy asshole ...

Or a(n aging) snowboarder?

Care to join Curmudgeons Without Boarders?

[jayfrizzo]

Originally posted by phUnk
Agreed. Just like mountain biking (which will never take off, I tell ya.)

You've spent $5000 in the last 5 years on mountain biking? You got ripped the fuck off.

Also notice I asked if it was cheaper for kids. Adults have that kind of money, but adults joining sports don't make 'em mainstream.

[Plakespear]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DynaMeg

-Do you think our sport is stagnant at the moment?
No. It's probably the most interesting period skiing has seen in three decades

-Do you think it still becoming more and more popular/'cool' in comparison to the sport industry or have we somewhat reached a plateau? .
Skiing reached it's mainstream plateau in the mid 70's. Interestingly, that is about the same time period that the big lawsuits appeared and made skiing much more expensive. While it's becoming a bit more "cool", the new school movement is kind of an underground thing. Most people who ski aren't even aware of it.

-What about talking to people (who aren't involved in the sport at all), what is their reaction to your being a 'skier'? .
Unfortunately, when you tell people you are a skier, they generally think you're a rich, turtleneck wearing, Stacy. Or some Eurotrash wannabe. Ar Aspen glitzy. Or Suzy Chapstick. Seth Morrison ar Shane McConkey is NOT the first thing people think of.

-Do you think our sport is capable of ever being more mainstrem as surfing has become? Or is the sport just too expensive and inaccessible for most people to afford?.
No. See previous answer. It's not that people can't afford to ski- look at how huge golf is, and golf is just as expensive. Also, I've tried to get non skiing freinds to try it out, and they're all convinced that they're gonna end up with two broken legs.

-What kind of role do girls in the sport now have?

Girls kick ass.

[Alkasquawlik]

Living 5 hours away from the mountains I get to really feel out what the average jong thinks of skiing. And most of them love to go skiing, love to go to the mountians but haven't the slightest clue of what has been going on in our sport in the past 5 years. I often get people asking if I'm skiing on those 'new-fangled-skis-with-up-turned-tails'. If I tell them that I'm a pro skier, trying to make a living skiing, I'm usually met with 'wow that's cool' and then immediately followed up by 'how the hell do you make money skiing, are you an instructor or something.'
Skiing in my opinion is growing. Kids are sticking with skiing instead of going straight to blowboarding. And honestly it's the jibbers that have kept those kids around. But I also think true skiing, big mountain skiing, is getting to get more respect again and that's a good thing for skiers like meg and myself. And altough skiing is growing it will never be up there with skating, bmx, or surfing. Surfing has a large sex appeal that grabs many jong's attentions even if they live hundreds of miles inland. And skate and bmx is accesible to everyone. Skiing isn't sexy (except for in Freeskier) and isn't as accesible, but it doesn't mean we can't continue to show the world that skiing is the sickest, gnarliest and best sport in the world. Oh yeah and meg, will you marry me?

[joshbu]

Originally posted by DynaMeg
Am curious at what you all think...

I'll play (after all, it's a DynaMeg thread: all aboard!)

I'll address the female presance in skiing issue. It really boils down to a sport v. industry question.

In the sport sense, the we're all out here having a great time in the snow sense, women are 100% equal to men. If you beat me up the skin track, the first line is yours. If you want to huck a cliff, there's no force which is going to prevent you becuase of your gender.

In the industry sense, women are not equal. There is obviously fewer pros, less gear that addresses issues like the differences in the way women's bodies are built, etc... This is a function of the old "voting with your wallet" issue. If more women spent more money on skiing gear, then the amount of choices they would have would increase.

How to fix that inequality is a tough one. I bet nearly every single guy here has tried bringing a girlfriend to the mountains, generally with luke-warm success. That's been my expirence for sure.

[EPSkis]

Originally posted by DynaMeg
How do you view the state of our sport today?
-Do you think our sport is stagnant at the moment?
-Do you think it still becoming more and more popular/'cool' in comparison to the sport industry or have we somewhat reached a plateau?
-What about talking to people (who aren't involved in the sport at all), what is their reaction to your being a 'skier'?
-Do you think our sport is capable of ever being more mainstrem as surfing has become? Or is the sport just too expensive and inaccessible for most people to afford?
Also,
-What kind of role do girls in the sport now have?

Am curious at what you all think...

It's not "stagnant" at all. There's constant progress and improvement in terms of equipment, clothing, gear, etc.

Whether it's "popular or cool" depends a great deal on your geographic location. To some, the only exposure to skiing they'll ever get is to watch the Winter Olympics. Here in the Mid-Atlantic, neither surfing OR skiing will ever be "mainstream". It's a matter of access. On a scale, I'd say skiing is considerably more mainstream than surfing, though again - I myself am not exposed to the surfing culture. I didn't grow up in it, so I have little interest in it.

The sport IS expensive, there's no question. For many, it can only BE a part-time recreation. Again - depends on location. I could buy a season pass at any large Western area for about $300. To ski on my piece of shit 600' local hill, it's gonna cost me $600. For a family to spend a day skiing together, you're looking at an EASY $250-$300. Honestly, how many families can afford to do that on ANY sort of regular basis? (Not many that I know of.)

As far as women in the sport ~ They're more prominent now than they've ever been. Household names? Victoria, Picabo, Kristen, Wendy, Allison... (I couldn't name a surfer to save my life - male OR female.)

Young or beginning women skiers have a dozen different role models to choose from. Looking back 20 years ago, who was there? Suzy Chapstick? Did anyone really ASPIRE to that?

But today ~ Ask any young female boarder OR skier who "Victoria" is, and they'll know who you're talking about. And they'll also know that she rips. Right alongside the big boys. In many cases, doing it with more style & finesse.

And you? What's the latest?

[jayfrizzo]

EP -- Where in the Midatlantic are you?

[Hayduke]

Ok,
How do you view the state of our sport today?

I love it - for me it's not a team sport. I'll look out for the safety of others but essentially I do it for no one else but me.


-Do you think our sport is stagnant at the moment?

Frankly I don't care and having read Downhill Slide, I'd rather it did stagnate. As long as I'm pushing my own boundries it's not stagnating
.

-Do you think it still becoming more and more popular/'cool' in comparison to the sport industry or have we somewhat reached a plateau?

Yeah, it's reached a plateau.......next?

-What about talking to people (who aren't involved in the sport at all), what is their reaction to your being a 'skier'?

Normally a yawn. Middle of summer, at a party, talking about skiing? it's not normal is it...... Fact is I can't help it. I'm surprised I've still got a wife.

-Do you think our sport is capable of ever being more mainstrem as surfing has become? Or is the sport just too expensive and inaccessible for most people to afford?
In comparison to surfing?....Definately too expensive. You want to surf? buy a board for $350 and you're made. Want to ski? start adding...



Also,
-What kind of role do girls in the sport now have?

In a word.....Icons. Girls that ski (well) are sexy. Even if they've got a face like the back end of a lorry, they're still sexy (from afar). It's something about them being able to ski and the mystery of what lies underneath all those layers......

[iceman]

phUnk, you should paste all your responses in this thread into one, because you're right all the way. Meg rips, more exposure and more money is good for the sport, etc., etc.

Board, you gonna carve your next snowboard? Or would you prefer that a viable industry continue to produce boards and perhaps even better boards than are available now?

Bottom line is that every person who buys a piece of gear or a lift ticket helps our sport, and good on 'em.

Oh, yeah...You morons who don't know who Meg is and called her out are wicked fackin' lame-o's, fackin' stupid bastids. And I faht in yer general direction.

[joshbu]

Originally posted by DynaMeg
Am curious at what you all think...

The real question D-Meg, is why do you always come to us with obtuse questions? Why don't you just tell us what's on your mind, or what's bugging ya? Reality TV knocking on your door or something?

[Ubersheist]

I've got a related general question: When did this sport start to grow?

I've heard repetetively in ski mags and from ski industry types that there was actually a loss during the mid and late '80s and zero growth through most of the '90s, both in terms of number of skier-days and dollars per year; i.e. skiing was a dying industry in the late '80s, then levelled out but didn't grown in the '90s.

Does anyone know of any sources of raw data to support or negate these ideas?

And, no, skiing will likely not become mainstream in the foreseeable future. However, if you look at other countries... It's far more mainstream in the European countries, but that's mostly because it's so much more ingrained in thier history.

On the other hand, Japan (which is roughly the size of California) has almost as many ski areas as the entire U.S. - I remember hearing something like 725 ski areas in Japan vs. 750 in the U.S. I'll bet this includes X-C ski areas in addition to all the little 250' vert mom n' pop resorts. In addition, Japan's more densely populated then the U.S. Thier population is 127,333,002 (July 2004 est.) vs. 1: 291,950,153 (Sept. 2003 est.).

However, it's a clear indication that the sport is wildly more popular and mainstream there then here.

[irul&ublo]

Originally posted by Ubersheist
On the other hand, Japan (which is roughly the size of California) has almost as many ski areas as the entire U.S. - I remember hearing something like 725 ski areas in Japan vs. 750 in the U.S. I'll bet this includes X-C ski areas in addition to all the little 250' vert mom n' pop resorts. In addition, Japan's more densely populated then the U.S. Thier population is 127,333,002 (July 2004 est.) vs. 1: 291,950,153 (Sept. 2003 est.).

However, it's a clear indication that the sport is wildly more popular and mainstream there then here.

The Japanese love any sport which allows them to dress up in bizarre clothing. hence, their obsession with golf and the popularity of skiing.

[phUnk]

Originally posted by jayfrizzo
You've spent $5000 in the last 5 years on mountain biking? You got ripped the fuck off.

Also notice I asked if it was cheaper for kids. Adults have that kind of money, but adults joining sports don't make 'em mainstream.

Your claim was that skiing required $1000 a year to "stay current" meaning "replace all your gear with new gear."

My post was supposed to point out that there's no need to do that in skiing or any other sport. I was lazy and didn't try to explain it because your post was retarded to begin with.

[jayfrizzo]

Originally posted by phUnk
Your claim was that skiing required $1000 a year to "stay current" meaning "replace all your gear with new gear."

My post was supposed to point out that there's no need to do that in skiing or any other sport. I was lazy and didn't try to explain it because your post was retarded to begin with.

Actually, Fucknut (), what I meant by staying current was in keeping yourself in relatively decent gear and lift tickets.

If it's a sport you're practicing a couple times/week, I think that's a fair estimate, if not conservative.

You spend more than that on skiing every year as do most of the people on this board. But we're nutty, and adults who make bling (those of us with jobs, that is. I asked about kids because it seems student passes are pretty cheap and kids generally ride on crap gear (I know I did skateboarding, which is way cheaper).

Skiing (and snowboarding) is expensive, and IMO that's the biggest thing holding it back, especially compared to surfing/skating/bmx/basketball/etc.


J-

[dubu]

Originally posted by Yossarian
dubu, meet Dynameg.
Ha!

http://www.dreamcatcherheliskiing.co...megoster02.jpg

Alright I take it back. .




and shall jong myslef

[phUnk]

Originally posted by jayfrizzo
Actually, Fucknut (), etc
J-

A lot of season passes cost way less than our $1000-ish Utah passes and the normal skier (the majority of them) doesn't buy shit for new gear each year. They don't break gear and they don't care about the latest slut fashions.

[snowrider]

Do you think our sport is stagnant at the moment?

I believe our sport is beginning to plateau as the pro level. I mean you can only spin so many times and "off axis" yourself in so many ways. Jumps can only be so big before it become suicide, same goes for cliff drops. Cliche but park tricks to big mtn blah blah, but even that will plateau because there only so many tricks to be thrown.

At the "average" person level it most definitely has NOT plateaued. I consider myself a pretty good skier but I don't believe I will ever be at the very top level where current ripping pros are. I would like to think I could be up close eventually, but there will always be something for me to learn. I would think most people on the board feel the same way.

Skiers, even the top pros will always have room for improvement for themselves, Morrison is king of big mtn but he isn't king of park. Tanner is a park master but not a big mtn master. But look at the sport as a whole and each segement (park, big mtn)will have to plateau, but not the individuals who master one segement or the other.

am I being wordy?

[Spats]

Skiing has recovered somewhat from its 80s/early 90s doldrums, but it's nearing its peak given current circumstances.

Cost, and physical difficulty of access, hold it back. The two are related because of gas prices.

First, equipment costs too much. K2's $300-400 skis (PE, Fujative) are on the right track here, and there are several $100 bindings, but boots are still very expensive. Boot companies should use their old, unfashionable molds to make decent boots for cheap. A lot of people will be willing to buy boots that aren't the latest translucent lime with white gold buckles and palladium-neodymium cooling flanges if they only cost $190.

Second, it's too hard to get to and from the hill -- it takes a long time and most people aren't willing to put on chains. Resorts should run ski buses from nearby cities on weekends. I can't believe that of the thousands of cars that make the Tahoe commute on weekend days, that you couldn't get at least one busload to each major resort every weekend.

Third, day trips are exhausting and most people don't have the energy. We want to stay the whole weekend -- but where can we sleep? Too many resorts have gone for the quick buck and sold all their lodging as condos or timeshares, leaving day trippers nowhere to stay (cough*KIRKWOOD*cough). And most skiers don't demand luxury, a hostel is fine...I haven't yet seen a ski area hostel that isn't booked solid. Remember: if you sell a bed, you sell a lift ticket.

Imagine if the aforementioned ski bus left Friday night, returned Sunday night, and left you two nights of partying on the bus and at the resort...how cool would that be? How many of our friends for which skiing is "too much trouble" would get on that bus?

$60+ lift tickets are a problem. Alpine Meadows dropped theirs to $39 and I've never seen them so busy. Cheap lift tickets will get you more than cheap season passes, because the people who aren't skiing now aren't going to just go out and get a pass. We need to get them skiing first.

[phUnk]

Gotta disagree with snowrider's "we almost done progressing" post. (And I've probably said the same thing he has, in the past.)

Just because you can't imagine where it could go next, doesn't mean it isn't going places. I think the rate of innovation is good and will continue.

[Plakespear]

Originally posted by Spats
Resorts should run ski buses from nearby cities on weekends.

IImagine if the aforementioned ski bus left Friday night, returned Sunday night, and left you two nights of partying on the bus and at the resort...how cool would that be?

This is very common in East coast cities. Plenty of weekend bus trips run to VT and the Catskills. At Hunter there used to be a separate rental shop specifically for bus trippers.

[Egon]

Originally posted by phUnk
Less people == less industry money == less innovation & higher prices.

More people can mean more shabby real estate development in sensitive environments, overcrowding highways (I-70), more snowmaking.

But as long as it nutures innovation and keeps prices as completely affordable as they already are...

[phUnk]

Originally posted by Egon
More people can mean more shabby real estate development in sensitive environements, overcrowding highways (I-70), more snowmaking.

But as long as it nutures innovation and keeps prices as completely affordable as they already are...

I dig the avatar, but I think you're off-base if you're blaming problems like irresponsible land development, overcrowded population centers (or insufficient infrastructure) near ski areas and insufficient snowfall all on skiing's "popularity."

[Spats]

Originally posted by Plakespear
This is very common in East coast cities. Plenty of weekend bus trips run to VT and the Catskills. At Hunter there used to be a separate rental shop specifically for bus trippers.

The West Coast isn't nearly as good with this. Only one I know of is Bay Area Ski Bus, which only does day trips, one each weekend to a different resort. The resorts need to pick up this ball.

Imagine: it's Friday and you're at work. Go to the resort web site and reserve a bus seat + lift ticket + rental gear. Weekend planning done!

Let's say your weight, height, and skier level are on the web form: your rental form can be printed out and your gear ready when you arrive! All you have to do is try on boots and sign the form...tell me this wouldn't improve on the current experience, and wouldn't cost the resort much, if anything.