the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[GoldenBC]

Ah. That makes sense then. Also, I guess Kicking Horse filters out a lot of super casual skiers by nature of the terrain, even if our shop is the only option for fitting.

[mr_pretzel]

What’s the procedure for salomons 4D liner?

HD shell is 2min at 100c, do you wait to do the liner til the boot has cooled down?

[gregL]

HD shell is 2min at 100c . . .

Who told you that?

[mr_pretzel]

Who told you that?

The salomon tech manual lol

[gregL]

The salomon tech manual lol

Well, you won't fuck it up, but it won't mold to your foot either. We do 8-10 minutes @ 117 C. depending on how warm the oven is to start (all the ovens, including the ones Salomon sends us, are pre-set to 117 C.). We do the liners on the Lange heat stacks for the "alpine" time (8 minutes). Make sure you don't walk around and stand on a hard, flat surface during the cool down phase (~14-15 minutes). We do them both at the same time.

[Huskier]

Almost got my fit dialed on the Quattro XT. Two remaining issues:

1) At the end of the day my pinkie toes are asleep both foot. None others. I've had that ankle nerve issue before resulting in 3-5 going numb but never just pinkie toe. Already punched for width on one side including the territory that a sixth toe punch would hit. I almost feel like it's pressure on the bottom of the fifth metatarsal head?

2) This one is trickier. I have a congenital thing in my right ankle compounded by hardware that limits my dorsiflexion substantially. I have an odd tendency to suffer uncontrolled foot/ankle eversion (rolling to the outside, sometimes bad enough to catch an edge) just on that foot. How does adding/subtracting ramp angle affect ankle stability? Would adjusting my canting accomplish anything?

[Samski360]

Almost got my fit dialed on the Quattro XT. Two remaining issues:

1) At the end of the day my pinkie toes are asleep both foot. None others. I've had that ankle nerve issue before resulting in 3-5 going numb but never just pinkie toe. Already punched for width on one side including the territory that a sixth toe punch would hit. I almost feel like it's pressure on the bottom of the fifth metatarsal head?

2) This one is trickier. I have a congenital thing in my right ankle compounded by hardware that limits my dorsiflexion substantially. I have an odd tendency to suffer uncontrolled foot/ankle version (rolling to the outside, sometimes bad enough to catch an edge) just on that foot. How does adding/subtracting ramp angle affect ankle stability? Would adjusting my canting accomplish anything?

If you have enough space in your boot and you’re getting pain/numbness in the metatarsal head, my guess would be also excess pressure on the metatarsal heads.

Reduced dorsiflexion can increase pressure on the metatarsal heads. So, that congenital/injury history is likely contributing. Another thing that can contribute to metatarsal pressure is a shortened/tight gastroc muscle. If that’s the case, doing some stretching can help. Also making sure your forward lean/ramp matches your anatomy may help too.

I’m sure more pro boot fitters can chime in on this with more detail, but less forward lean is the first thing to try. It might be that your boot flex movement exceeds your dorsiflexion, which means your boot isn’t supporting your shin, and you’re getting that excess metatarsal pressure. If that messes with your stance, adding some ramp by shimming the heel could bring it back…or make it worse.




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[turnfarmer]

Almost got my fit dialed on the Quattro XT. Two remaining issues:

1) At the end of the day my pinkie toes are asleep both foot. None others. I've had that ankle nerve issue before resulting in 3-5 going numb but never just pinkie toe. Already punched for width on one side including the territory that a sixth toe punch would hit. I almost feel like it's pressure on the bottom of the fifth metatarsal head?

2) This one is trickier. I have a congenital thing in my right ankle compounded by hardware that limits my dorsiflexion substantially. I have an odd tendency to suffer uncontrolled foot/ankle eversion (rolling to the outside, sometimes bad enough to catch an edge) just on that foot. How does adding/subtracting ramp angle affect ankle stability? Would adjusting my canting accomplish anything?

Rolling to the outside is actually inversion.
And yes reduced ankle dorsiflexion can make it worse. When you run out of ankle dorsiflexion and the knee is trying to progress over the foot compensation will occur either by pronation or supination. Pronation is a triplanar motion consisting of eversion, abduction, and dorsiflexion. Supination is a triplanar motion consisting of inversion. adduction, and plantarflexion. Bringing the ground up to the heel will reduce the need for compensatory motion. In boot modifications affect the foot/ankle, outside the boot(canting, binding delta, mount point) affect above the ankle biomechanics. So if catching an edge( outside?)on that foot is coming from you ankle/foot canting will not help. A lateral post on your footbed may help. However if catching the edge is coming from your knee/hip canting will help.
But you need to back up and get the fore aft plane balanced first. Set your forward lean as straight up as possible and get a heel lift first.
That alone may fix your little toe numbness.
Also if you have no dorsiflexion in your fifth ray go back to the manipulation video I posted and watch the end where he mobilized the cuboid.

[turnfarmer]

If you have enough space in your boot and you’re getting pain/numbness in the metatarsal head, my guess would be also excess pressure on the metatarsal heads.

Reduced dorsiflexion can increase pressure on the metatarsal heads. So, that congenital/injury history is likely contributing. Another thing that can contribute to metatarsal pressure is a shortened/tight gastroc muscle. If that’s the case, doing some stretching can help. Also making sure your forward lean/ramp matches your anatomy may help too.

I’m sure more pro boot fitters can chime in on this with more detail, but less forward lean is the first thing to try. It might be that your boot flex movement exceeds your dorsiflexion, which means your boot isn’t supporting your shin, and you’re getting that excess metatarsal pressure. If that messes with your stance, adding some ramp by shimming the heel could bring it back…or make it worse.




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Good post

[Huskier]

. In boot modifications affect the foot/ankle, outside the boot(canting, binding delta, mount point) affect above the ankle biomechanics. So if catching an edge( outside?)on that foot is coming from you ankle/foot canting will not help. A lateral post on your footbed may help. However if catching the edge is coming from your knee/hip canting will help.
d.

Next level shit, mind blown did not know that. And SS360 informative as always.

I actually went and increased my ramp and forward lean to fix an issue with my mechanics putting me in the backseat but only on one pair of skis with a flat binding delta, and only in the backcountry. It seems the toe thing is a byproduct of that, so that makes sense. The only thing I can't figure out is why only my fifth is involved, the others are totally fine

[This End Up]

I’m a 3-piece/cabrio noob, and I bought some Dalbello Kryptons “on-sale”, on-line. I realize the liners needs to be heat moulded to fit my feet, but I’m thinking of sending them back due to the tightness. The boots are the right length, a little tight for toe width, it’s the height at the toe that’s a problem. I can close the top leg buckle, I can barely close the mid-ankle buckle and cannot close the bottom toe buckle. The loop doesn’t even reach to the “hooks”. The tongue is laying flat against shell.

Will heat moulding the liner solve this height issue, or should I just ship them back and go try on more boots?

[turnfarmer]

Next level shit, mind blown did not know that. And SS360 informative as always.

I actually went and increased my ramp and forward lean to fix an issue with my mechanics putting me in the backseat but only on one pair of skis with a flat binding delta, and only in the backcountry. It seems the toe thing is a byproduct of that, so that makes sense. The only thing I can't figure out is why only my fifth is involved, the others are totally fine

mmend you try increasing the ramp angle not forward lean.This will open up your ankle and reduce pressure on 5th and likel keep you out of backseat.. If still in backseat, maybe a higher binding delta will help.

[mntlion]

I’m a 3-piece/cabrio noob, and I bought some Dalbello Kryptons “on-sale”, on-line. I realize the liners needs to be heat moulded to fit my feet, but I’m thinking of sending them back due to the tightness. The boots are the right length, a little tight for toe width, it’s the height at the toe that’s a problem. I can close the top leg buckle, I can barely close the mid-ankle buckle and cannot close the bottom toe buckle. The loop doesn’t even reach to the “hooks”. The tongue is laying flat against shell.

Will heat moulding the liner solve this height issue, or should I just ship them back and go try on more boots?

what boot (brand, model and size) where you on, and what did you buy?

how does the new shell feel with the old liner?

Odds are you are fine and just need to go ski it (or heat mold it)

[This End Up]

what boot (brand, model and size) where you on, and what did you buy?

Old Boot:
Fisher - Ranger Free - 2017
Mondo: 29.5
Last: 99
Flex: 130
BSL: 335
This is best fitting boot I've ever owned, once its on my foot. However getting this 2 piece boot on and off is torture. Maybe I'm just old an inflexible.


New Boot:
Dalbello - Krypton 130 TI - 2022ish
Mondo: 29.5
Last: 98
Flex: 130
BSL: 337
This 3-piece/Cabrio boot is easier to get in, but the "volume" on top of the foot seems significantly lower.

how does the new shell feel with the old liner?

I didn't try the old liner in the new shell. I didn't think the liner from a 2-piece/overlap shell would work in 3-piece/cabrio boot.

[mntlion]

Old Boot:
Fisher - Ranger Free - 2017
Mondo: 29.5
Last: 99
Flex: 130
BSL: 335
This is best fitting boot I've ever owned, once its on my foot. However getting this 2 piece boot on and off is torture. Maybe I'm just old an inflexible.


New Boot:
Dalbello - Krypton 130 TI - 2022ish
Mondo: 29.5
Last: 98
Flex: 130
BSL: 337
This 3-piece/Cabrio boot is easier to get in, but the "volume" on top of the foot seems significantly lower.




I didn't try the old liner in the new shell. I didn't think the liner from a 2-piece/overlap shell would work in 3-piece/cabrio boot.

Please try old liner + new shell and report back

also try new liner + new shell - any footbed and report back

[This End Up]

Please try old liner + new shell and report back

also try new liner + new shell - any footbed and report back

I put the old liners, with old foot beds, in the new shells and was able to buckle the bottom-toe buckle. Overall the new shells felt pretty good with the old liners. Does this mean the new liners will shrink a lot when heat molded? I planned to keep the old overlap boots both as a back up, and to ski old skis that don't have Gripwalk bindings.

New liners with new shells, and old foot bed, is my original problem, where the boots are tight and I cannot close the bottom-toe buckle. Removing the foot bed doesn't fix the bottom-toe buckle problem.

And thanks for your help mntlion.

[mntlion]

if the new shell feels OK with old liner, then it should feel OK with new liner once its packed out. Go ski it and see. (try no foot bed at all, and if that feels a bit loose, add one)

FYI: its 100% OK to ski without a toe buckle done up. I've removed mine on dalbellos as they are not needed, even with a packed out liner.

Or if it feels too tight after skiing a few runs, go pay to get it heat molded (use thick socks, toe caps, tighten buckles etc) This does NOT make a good boot fit bad, or a bad boot fit good, it just speeds up what would happen in 10 ish days of skiing.

You will be just fine, you need to ski more and think less.

[This End Up]

You will be just fine, you need to ski more and think less.

I Wish



Thanks

[Squirreljam]

Question for bootfitters that work on race boots: would you work on a pair of plug shells mailed to you with detailed instructions (note: would want you to have sole planer set-up with jigs/sleds for canting). Specific things needed: planing soles for cant; lifters installed; lugs routed to din; clog interior grinding in one spot per foot (would be marked by grease pencil). Your hourly rate charged for sure with no expectation of rework.

I live where there isn’t access to places to do that. So I usually do all my own stuff but boot fitting shell work it’s just not worth the tool investment. Any thoughts?

[GoldenBC]

I wouldn’t hesitate to do that for someone as long as they understand that certain things are irreversible and that they are responsible for the information given that dictates the work done.

I would hope you know what you’re talking about and have had things measured accurately. I would clarify it with you. But if it’s wrong, that’s your problem not mine. Also, expansions and fit work isn’t always perfect first try. You would be risking potentially having to mail them back again.

[Squirreljam]

GBC, thanks. I’ll pm some time in next couple weeks. Of course understood that it’s once and done

[Yukonrider]

Currently in a pair of Salomon Spro Alpha 120s that are approaching new liner time. I can either get new zipfit liners for the old boots, or move into new Spro Alpha 130s for about the same price.

I've not skied 130s before, but always wondered if my 120s were a little soft, I just don't know. 6'2" 165, 100 days per year, pretty aggressive skier.

[mntlion]

Get the new ones.

If you dont like em, or find too stiff, just move the new liners to the old shells, and sell off new shells as needed

[Jongle]

Question for the bootfitting gurus about medial malleolus punches in touring boots (in this case the Scarpa 4-Quattro).

I fucked up my ankle by repeatedly spraining it and now have constant point tenderness on the bony protuberance of my medial malleolus. I'm looking at the Scarpa 4-Quattro XT as a new touring boot, they fit incredibly well but the pressure of the shell against my malleolus is very painful. My questions:

- How easy is it to a punch a 'pocket' for my ankle to sit in and alleviate the direct pressure? The rough location is shown below.

- The punch would need to be located where the lower shell and cuff overlap, and so I guess both the shell and the cuff would need to be punched. Would this mess up the walk mode by creating a point of friction where the cuff and shell bumps overlap?

Appreciate any thoughts!

EDIT: I'd be running GFTs in these if that makes a difference.

[gregL]

Question for the bootfitting gurus about medial malleolus punches in touring boots (in this case the Scarpa 4-Quattro).

I fucked up my ankle by repeatedly spraining it and now have constant point tenderness on the bony protuberance of my medial malleolus. I'm looking at the Scarpa 4-Quattro XT as a new touring boot, they fit incredibly well but the pressure of the shell against my malleolus is very painful. My questions:

- How easy is it to a punch a 'pocket' for my ankle to sit in and alleviate the direct pressure? The rough location is shown below.

- The punch would need to be located where the lower shell and cuff overlap, and so I guess both the shell and the cuff would need to be punched. Would this mess up the walk mode by creating a point of friction where the cuff and shell bumps overlap?

Appreciate any thoughts!

EDIT: I'd be running GFTs in these if that makes a difference.

It's not what I would call an "easy" punch but it's possible. You actually need to heat all three components (shell, cuff and tongue), then buckle the boot for stability and then punch. Malleolus punches need to be very accurate to be effective; I like to mark the spot on the liner with the foot inside, then put the liner in the shell and hold it apart from the shell with a screwdriver to determine the spot (good depth perception is critical). If the liner has been used a bunch, you can usually see a mark from the cuff rivet, in which case you can measure the distance manually (i.e. 37mm NNW). After you heat mold the GFT I would punch the spot again with the liner in the boot to thin out the Omfit in that area.