the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[sb]

^^^ Very nice write up.

Took the wife to the boot fitters last night, 2 hours of punching, bending, grinding, heating her Langes are well fitting her small and wide feet. Well worth the Buck30 it cost.

[Castro's]

waterbath the shell (near boiling water for 5+ minutes)
heat up the liner with blow drier or CARFULLY in oven, or rice method.
toe caps on toes
3mm pads foot anywhere you want more room
thick socks.
bottle of scotch

remove the liners from the heat, and inset foot. make sure heel is back and down all the way
remove shell from hot water, and stuff foot/liner into shell. make sure heel is back and down all the way. Pull up on liner, as you flex forward in shell.
make sure heel is back and down all the way
buckle middle buckle to make sure heel is back and down all the way
tighten toe buckle tight, Now go 1-2 notches tighter on it.
add scotch
wait 10-15 mintues. 10 if you can cool the boots in snow, 15 if you are somewhere warm
add more scotch as needed

remove boots, remove all the padding, toe caps and thick socks. wait until you can feel your feet again.
put on THIN socks, remove boots stock footbed, and try the boots with the toe buckle OPEN (not loose, but off)

redneck, but it will work....

Thanks mntlion. I have 2 bottle's of Maker's Mark that I'll put to use while doing this. We have snow, but will keep them on as long as I can stand it. Really hoping this does the trick. It will be nice to have a pair of boots that are comfortable, and practical for once!

[auvgeek]

mntlion is a professional -- I'm basically some guy off the street. So listen to him. But I would mold liners first before messing with the shell. Here's what I'd do:

1. Mold the liner. Tons of threads on oven method or water in turkey bag (I prefer oven because it heats both sides, which makes it easier to create space). Read them before trying anything. I'd pull the old footbeds out first. Put your custom footbeds under your foot. Put a toe cap on your toes (and over the footbed), double up on the toecap to get more space. Because you have a good sense of where the boots hurt, cut some foam and tape it to your foot in those where you need more space. Now tape the the footbed to your heel (just one strip of tape is needed, no need to go overboard). Now pull a thick sock over that mess. When the liner comes out of the oven, put your foot in and adjust so it lays flat. Then pull a thick pair of pantyhose (or super thin sock) over the whole thing and slide it into the shell shell. Follow mntlion's instructions re heel lifting and buckling.

Now get back on the elliptical (or whatever) and see how it feels. Continue to determine where the pressure points are and break the liners in a bit more.

2. If that's not enough space, heat mold the shell. http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...odacious-boots

[Castro's]

mntlion is a professional -- I'm basically some guy off the street. So listen to him. But I would mold liners first before messing with the shell. Here's what I'd do:

1. Mold the liner. Tons of threads on oven method or water in turkey bag (I prefer oven because it heats both sides, which makes it easier to create space). Read them before trying anything. I'd pull the old footbeds out first. Put your custom footbeds under your foot. Put a toe cap on your toes (and over the footbed), double up on the toecap to get more space. Because you have a good sense of where the boots hurt, cut some foam and tape it to your foot in those where you need more space. Now tape the the footbed to your heel (just one strip of tape is needed, no need to go overboard). Now pull a thick sock over that mess. When the liner comes out of the oven, put your foot in and adjust so it lays flat. Then pull a thick pair of pantyhose (or super thin sock) over the whole thing and slide it into the shell shell. Follow mntlion's instructions re heel lifting and buckling.

Now get back on the elliptical (or whatever) and see how it feels. Continue to determine where the pressure points are and break the liners in a bit more.

2. If that's not enough space, heat mold the shell. http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...odacious-boots

UPDATE:

So - after 1/2 of a 1.75 of Maker's tonight (thank you Costco for being $9 cheaper than every liquor store in town), I followed Mntlion's instructions. Sorry Auvgeek, I didn't see your post until after I attempted the boot fitting. It worked out fairly well except I should have looked a bit closer at the liners before putting them in the oven. The Maker's made my attention to detail just a bit cloudy. I set the oven to 220, and had the door half open. All was fine, except when I took them out (after 7 minutes) I then noticed that the liners have some rubber on the upper. That melted a small bit, but only cosmetic. So much for returning the boots (oh well).

I put the shells in my kitchen sink, added some extremely hot (170 degree) tap water, and then added boiling water to the mixture for about 8 minutes/shell. Made a toe cap out of a thick wool sock, but since I didn't have foot pads I cut the toe cap down the side (where I needed the space), and duct tapped it into place (what's a redneck boot fitting without duct tape?). I did one foot at a time, and stood in a snow bank for about 13 minutes with the shell completely covered with snow. I was able to get the buckles tightened on the last notch, but it took a a couple minutes to work up to that point. The thing I noticed the most during the process was the intense pain in the middle of my arch. It felt like Hulk Hogan was taking the handle end of a screwdriver, and jamming it into the middle of my arch. This was in line with my original issue, so I'm hoping it was a sign that things were going to improve post fitting. The shell heating was obviously working though as before the shell heating I couldn't latch the bottom buckles past the first notch.

Post boot fitting: I tried the boots on without the footbed that came with the boot. They actually felt too loose, so I tried them on with the foot bed. With the foot bed they fell ok. At this point I have been wearing them for 30 minutes while sitting, and the only issue I currently notice is a hot spot right where the 2nd buckle is located. While standing and flexing foward, the hot spot goes away (which obviously is the important thing cuz that's a natural ski position). I'm looking forward to getting back on the elliptical tomorrow, as that will be my version of the ultimate test until I get to hit the slopes. My heel is slipping up a bit when I stand on my tippy toes (which wasn't happing at all before the fitting), so I'll monitor that, and make adjustments from there. If the intense arch pain continues I'll try removing the standard foot bed, and putting in my 12 year old customs. If that fails I'll remove foot beds completely. The boots currenlty (by currenlty I mean post fitting and snow cooling (left them in the snow bank after wearing them)), feel pretty darn good. To be honest they feel tight, but without the pain I was experincing out of the box. I am noticing a bit of pain in the middle of my foot, (the arch) as i was earlier (pre boot fitting). Does that mean I have a flat foot, and the footbed is too arched?

I'll post another update after the elliptical tomorrow - good, bad, or otherwise.

[mntlion]

glad it helped.

I think you just need to ski the boots now. if you do much more, you are just going to think too much, and the boot fitting problems will be above the knee

[Soup Nazi]

mntlion, what can one do if there is no boot on the market that will accommodate their extremely skinny feet? I wear size 9.5 or 10.0 in regular shoes but my ski boots are 26.0 and they still are way too wide for me even with a 95 mm forefoot last. My ankles and heels are just too skinny. You mention that you can always make a shell a little larger but you can't make it a little smaller. I have worked around this by putting a ton of padding all over my liners but there is still room to move around the heel area and the extra padding certainly doesn't help with circulation. Is there any hope for me?

[arild]

Soma vacuums sound like a good idea for you,right off the bat.

Norsk.

[nyskirat]

Perhaps a true plug boot. I know some go down to 93mm lasts.

[Crampedon]

I just bought the Fischer Ranger 12 vacum boot. Was waiting all summer for full tilts in 99 in my size and tried them on and hate the buckles. Fischer claims you can shrink down from 103 to 98 or less in the shell size with the vacum process.

My friends shop did the bake and bag and I ski'd them. Very impressed, but it was warm out and they felt a little sloppy. We baked them again and squeezed them to 360 psi and added some material to the top of the boot board and a little stick on foam above the achilles on each side and I am set. Can ride them hard and fast on the first or second click and LOVE the vibram sole and walk mode. It got much colder out and they feel about like the 120 stated flex.

We will see how long the liners last and where to go from there. I searched but did not find a dedicated thread. Could be a good low-foot volume choice.

Mntlion have you started working with these? what do you think of their stance machine and process?

Overall I am happy feet and upped my ski control drastically. They only hurt for 30 seconds... When I payed for them.

[mntlion]

foam liners can do a good job in filling up volume, if you are in the correct shell to start with. An if a 10mm shell fit, in a 92-95mm boot is still too wide, that might be the answer

Fischer: good idea, but not sure how much is the fischer magic plastic, and how much is the vaccum machine. I dont sell them, but have seen good results. Also heard of good results with using other brands, and sucking/heating them?

really thick intuitions might help, but the sides of the wrap arounds might go too far around?

[DudeLebowSKI]

mntlion,

What's your feeling on mondopoint sizing and how it translates to actual shell fit? I am trying to get sized up for some Lange RX 130's and I am 25 mondo x 99mm by measurment (weighted - left foot 255, right foot 250, both at 99mm wide weighted and unweighted). The strange thing is that in that particular boot, it appears that I have around 2cm of space behind the heel when shell fitting in a 25 size. The Langes have a 97mm last at 25 and feel very tight around my forefoot but pretty open in the toe box. Go down a size maybe?

PS. Thanks for referring me to Junior. He gave me some tongue plates in an attempt to cure the shin bite I am still experiencing with the Hotrod 125's. They didn't work however and now I'm convinced that the problem is a combination of cuff height and flex point of that particular boot.

[Hypnotoad]

Lots of people size down 2 sizes from the mondo size chart in the RX. My bootfitter swears by it. I wear a size 12, with a foot in the mid-high 28's and I'm in a 27/27.5 shell with a good bit of big toe punching.

[JaytaeMoney]

I sized down in the RX130 as well. According to the Lange chart they had in the back of the shop I should be in a 27.5 (both feet were around 274mm) but I sized down to a 26.5 and have a 1cm shell fit. Size down.

[DudeLebowSKI]

Lots of people size down 2 sizes from the mondo size chart in the RX. My bootfitter swears by it. I wear a size 12, with a foot in the mid-high 28's and I'm in a 27/27.5 shell with a good bit of big toe punching.

Ya I thought it was a bit strange that the shell fit did not represent the mondopoint at all. Then I thought well maybe they are designed that way for a reason? I was hoping to stay away from the toe punching this time around. Thanks for the info.

[waxman]

re:Lange and Mondo point-in my travels i've yet to see a mondopoint foot measurer that is actually accurate ( the Salomon one that looks like a Brannock device and measures width in mm is the best one i've seen) the rest SUCK (as far as 3 sizes out as far as i can see) they might work for rental/renters but for real skier if your bootfitter even brings one near your foot hit him/her in the head with it
disregard every companies boot "listed" size and go straight to a shell fit (which they should be doing anyways)
in the Lange RS/RX/XT series and the Cochise in the softer flex models you will probably go down one to two sizes easily from what i've seen
in boots like the Fulltilt/Raichle that haven't changed in 30 years you are probaly safe in whatever shell you've always been in
in boots that have changed/progressed definitely go with the shell fit above all else

[DudeLebowSKI]

re:Lange and Mondo point-in my travels i've yet to see a mondopoint foot measurer that is actually accurate ( the Salomon one that looks like a Brannock device and measures width in mm is the best one i've seen) the rest SUCK (as far as 3 sizes out as far as i can see) they might work for rental/renters but for real skier if your bootfitter even brings one near your foot hit him/her in the head with it
disregard every companies boot "listed" size and go straight to a shell fit (which they should be doing anyways)
in the Lange RS/RX/XT series and the Cochise in the softer flex models you will probably go down one to two sizes easily from what i've seen
in boots like the Fulltilt/Raichle that haven't changed in 30 years you are probaly safe in whatever shell you've always been in
in boots that have changed/progressed definitely go with the shell fit above all else

THANK YOU. Back to Lange after a 2 year long painful hiatus. So is there additional last width narrowing below size 25? I seem to remember years ago that the advertised last width narrowed below a certain size in some models. I don't think my feet could handle any narrower than 97mm.

[mntlion]

shell fit is key, ignore the sizes on the box

[stuckathuntermtn]

Damn, a fifth of Makers, and you managed to improve your boots?
You, sir, are a Real Man of Genius....or maybe your liver is.

Boiling the shells wouldn't work for a hot spot on the outside of my mid-foot, would it? That's where I always have trouble. I've tried using the fire-place in the lodge and tight buckles, then out into the snow, but that didn't work. Didn't wanna get to hot and ruin the boots.
Any way to ghetto rig a boot spreader or punch?

[Snowy Spartan]

Damn, a fifth of Makers, and you managed to improve your boots?
You, sir, are a Real Man of Genius....or maybe your liver is.

Boiling the shells wouldn't work for a hot spot on the outside of my mid-foot, would it? That's where I always have trouble. I've tried using the fire-place in the lodge and tight buckles, then out into the snow, but that didn't work. Didn't wanna get to hot and ruin the boots.
Any way to ghetto rig a boot spreader or punch?

I would imagine if you padded the spot on your foot and boiled the boot it would work. That could be the whiskey talking though.

[iscariot]

Okay. I read the entire thread...and I get it. But WTF is wrong with my boots?

[waxman]

shell fit is key, ignore the sizes on the box

ok, that is the simpler version...

[weasel1]

mntlion,


PS. Thanks for referring me to Junior. He gave me some tongue plates in an attempt to cure the shin bite I am still experiencing with the Hotrod 125's. They didn't work however and now I'm convinced that the problem is a combination of cuff height and flex point of that particular boot.

Also, your shin issue could be a function of the forward lean. Too much creates a fulcrum point that translates to shin pain. Do some of the exercises (page 5, I think) to test fore-aft balance in the boot, and see if that illuminates things at all.

[mntlion]

if the boots are too big, you will just end up flexing on the top of the boot (as the rest has no contact)

heating shell, padding foot, wlil help with most pressure points

[shafty85]

Having difficulty adjusting the cant. I'm slightly bow-legged and am unable to turn the canting mechanism clockwise far enough to lock in to a setting canting even one position outward, due to the ankle buckle being in the way. Anyone else have this issue and/or a solution for it? I'll try to post a pic this evening for clarification.

Attachment 127645
Attachment 127646

The pics as promised. In the current set-up I cannot turn the mechanism either clockwise far enough to lock into the next setting (due to the buckle being in the way) or counter-clockwise (due to the mechanism not allowing me to turn it that way) so my boots are currently not canted and appear to be unable to be canted. I want to cant my boots outward, for my damn bow-legged-ness, but obviously am strugglling. What am I missing here?

Dave - any thoughts on this?

[mntlion]

if you have the canting all maxed out, that is all the boot can do as stock.

make sure the footbed is posted correctly, and not too big?

if you need more, then you have to get the side bolts drilled out, and re-set to what ever you need, and re-bolted in.