the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[johngenx]

sounds like a new liner might help, how many days on the old ones?

STP has some closeout scarpa liners I think, or call intuition directly

They're older than I remembered, four seasons on them, probably 180 days, maybe a bit more. I've done some 70km multi-day tours on the them, and I haven't had any problems until recently. When I bought the original Scarpa liners, I got a great deal, so I bought two pairs. Maybe it's time to put the next pair to use. The left boot is still fitting well, think I should just replace the right liner? Thanks for the advice...

[mntlion]

ya, try the new liners you have, give it a day or so, but that should help. Usually liners last 100-200 days, so they are near the end anyways.

[Rafess]

What is your opinion on flex index? Do you think it's better to have a stiffer boot or softer, for those skiing black runs and working on getting better ?

[mntlion]

usually people are in a boot too stiff for them, (or just dont know how to flex there ankle) BUT you can always make a stiff boot softer, not a soft boot stiffer. So if you are buying boots, and not sure, go stiffer, and try them softer later..

[mightyduck]

Heres my problem-

I got a pair of Dalbello cross'. I have a fairly wide foot (left is slightly wider than the right)...the first day in them was complete hell. Got them both punched on the outside of the foot. The first day on them since the punch the right boot felt pretty good and the left felt a lot better but the punch was a little far back and my little toe is still taking a lot of pressure and falling asleep after a while. The second day after the punch they both felt as though the punch had shrunk back or something? Maybe im imagining things but they both felt quite tight around the forefoot.

Along with this I get a bit of shin pain and general slop from the boot (around my instep). I would tighten the instep buckle more but I think my toes would fall off.

So my questions are:

1. How well will the clear plastic on the Cross hold a punch? The fitter im working with said there are some minor complications when punching clear plastic compared to solid plastics. What are those complications?

2. Intuitions? will they fix all my problems?

Thanks,

[mntlion]

1) should be fine, if they use a even heat (like a water bath) and freeze it fast (with snow) it will be better.
2) no. Sounds like the boot is NOT the right shape, width, or idea for you. thats a LOT of problems to try to fix. might be worth starting again from the begining?

[mday]

I have a new pair of Titan Ultralights, and I'm trying to decide if I should go through the time and expense of a full on boot fitting with what may be a borderline shell fit. Unfortunately, I live in an AT equipment desert, and ordered them without being able to try them on. I usually wear a 26, so that's what I ordered. They have a little more room behind my heel bone than I am used to starting with (19-20 mm on one foot, 20-21 mm on the other). I don't know that a 25 is available from the source where I was lucky enough to have a hookup, or that if I will have the luxury of traveling to an area where I might find a 25 to try on before I need to mount my swap plates on a boot center for *something*, and I was hoping it would be these.

The reason I went with the Titan Ultralight was so that I could travel with a single pair of boots. The idea is that these will become a quiver of one for me full time, assuming I can live with the compromises. My current alpine boots need to be unbuckled after most runs. I don't want to have a ridiculously sloppy fit, but also wouldn't complain if I could leave my boots buckled for most of the day. As I'm getting older, my brain is telling me that I might be kidding myself that I need a super precise performance fit, especially on boots that will be used on 5-10 backcountry days throughout the season. But this might be a rationalization since these are here in front of me, and my prospects for knowing if the next size down would be a better fit are slim to none in the short term.

Trying on the boots, they feel fairly good, although with my custom footbeds in it feels like they may need to be widened at the metatarsal / toe joint. Baking the liners might fix this. So, WWMD? I could be over-thinking this, and this shell fit could be fine for a mixed AT and resort boot. Or I could be embarking on expensive mods to expensive boots and never be happy with the result.

[mntlion]

can you order the smaller shell and see how that feels?
how big is the shell fit in all your other boots that you like the way they ski?
get both sizes, put the bigger liner in the smaller shell, and that gives you a idea of how the smaller shell and liner will fit in the end.

Odds are you need the smaller shell

[mday]

I can't get the 25 through the same channel. Some online retailers like BC.com have them in a 25, but it would be a big bump in price.

Usually, the shell fits that I like in an alpine boot are closer to 15 mm.

Not sure that I'm following you. If I have manage to get both sizes, why would I put the 26 liner in the 25 shell?

[mntlion]

if that is the only size you have, then ya, might be OK, and hope for the best.
if you had both, and think the 25 might be too small, put the bigger liner in for a try on. THis is about how the boot will feel after it packs out.

[gregL]

The idea is that these will become a quiver of one for me full time, assuming I can live with the compromises.

This could be the first of those compromises you're forced to live with. If you spend significant time skinning in the boots with the top buckles loose or undone, you'll welcome the extra length. I also usually shoot for ~15mm shell fit in an alpine boot, but ~20-22mm in a touring boot for that reason. No, they won't ski the same as your alpine boots, but you'll probably be able to leave them buckled all day. Hard to say if you'll be happy with them as a quiver of one until you try.

[skiburgher]

I am skiing in Fischer Progressor boots with zipfit liners and a custom footbed which seems to be pretty good. However, I am getting a fair amount of pain on my inside malleolus, which I assume is from overpronation. I'm pretty sure my cuff cant is ok. Any recommendations as to how to manage this?

[mntlion]

"L" pad around the malleolus to make it more stable, and control the pronation. Also it makes a bridge around the pain, so that spot is not touching.

strange that you get that much movement, even wiht a zip liner and afootbed. what is the shell fit on the boot like?

[skiburgher]

My shell fit is less than 10mm (I wear a 12.5 street shoe and am in a 28.5 boot). I think the problem is twofold - one is that I am extremely small boned which led me to the zipfits in the first place. Second, I'm a runner with a few bad ankle sprains behind me and wonder if my ankle is a bit too loose or unstable which causes is to roll inward.

[Piggity]

Not a boot fitting question but hopefully this is the right thread. I have some BD Quadrants and the material is pretty soft. So I've kicked some rocks and things that have taking out some small gashes on the toe/heel, on the top where the bindings clamp down.

Overtime, I'm worried about these wearing down and possibly not being able to hold me into my bindings at some point. They are not a concern now but I'm probably going to continue kicking random shit and making it worse. Should I fill the areas, as best i can, with some slow cure epoxy? Any other suggestions? Besides not being a dumb ass that's too rough on my gear

[mntlion]

My shell fit is less than 10mm (I wear a 12.5 street shoe and am in a 28.5 boot). I think the problem is twofold - one is that I am extremely small boned which led me to the zipfits in the first place. Second, I'm a runner with a few bad ankle sprains behind me and wonder if my ankle is a bit too loose or unstable which causes is to roll inward.

sounds like just too much volume with a bad ankle. go with more padding in the liner.

[skiburgher]

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try. I admit that the whole thing doesn't make much sense to me, but pain is pain. These liners feel so damn snug otherwise.

[Cocximus]

I am considering a footbed. Not sure if I really need one or want one. I had red hot insoles and they killed my feet. Right now I am using a crappy liner that came with my boots, and everything is good. I can get the footbeds through my benefits . Are they worth it? Will I gain anything?

[mntlion]

well, if you are not paying for them (thru benefits) then I guess the price vs reward is going to be good no matter what.

Usually people find them more comfortable with a fully supported foot, and quicker edge to edge (as the foot is not collapsing inward )

[flyman683]

So I've got nearly the worst possible feet for ski boots - left foot is ~9 w/ a little bit more than E width. Right is ~8 in EE width. So almost 2 cm difference in length and the shorter one is widest. I've always had to size for kinda in between and try and lock the right ankle in with padding. Ends up needing work for width & usually for length on the left side due to the size difference. I also wear medical orthotics (& superfeet in boots) for really bad overpronation/flat feet.

My normal boots are 2 y/o 26.5 Lange Super Blasters, w/ a lot of punching for width and some padding to keep my ankle in place on the right side. They've gotten to the comfortable & decent performance fit level finally.

Picked up a pair of AT boots that are 26.0 Scarpa Matrix on the cheap. Shell fit is touching on both sides on the width, with 9mm on left for heel & 28mm on the right. I've skied them about 5 times & molded the intuitions myself. They've done pretty well for me, although the right boot is typically a bit tight on the width.

However - this last time a took them out, wearing the normal socks, etc the pain was really bad on the right foot from my little toe to the whatever that bone/bump in the middle of your foot is called. the wierd part is that this was much worse than any prior pain I had - the only thing I can think of is that it was ~25 degrees and sunny; all the other days had been AK cold (10 down to -20).

By end of 1/2 day tour, when I got back to the car I pretty much couldn't stand on the right foot due to pain from bump to lil toe. Super tender today...


1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? LOOSER, except for the sliding heel that results, which makes blisters worse.

2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks? THINNER

3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)? W/O gives a touch more room, but makes my heels slide like crazy and cramping/pain on the arch.

4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)? Never had them on a lift, but standing around is awful.

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) Right away. Then bearable once some numbness sets in.

Rest of the questions are no effect.

Questions: Think they're punchable at all given its AT boot plastic? Any other ideas to try just to finish out season?

Boot dude @ local AT store wasn't so helpful - pretty much told me to buy new boots but that he also would never put someone in boots with a 25-30mm shell fit. Maybe he wants me to cut 10 mm off my larger foot?

Edit: should add he couldn't think of a boot he could make work (they carry garmont/scarpa). Also changed b/c I realised I wrote laser instead of Scarpa Matrix.

[Island Bay]

mntlion, thanks for all the good advice.

Good to meet you at the shop in March, a shame I didn't have time to wait for the right Intuition liners to be ordered in. Would have loved to have you fit them.

Anyhoo, after trying on a ton of different liners at Intuition, I bought some Luxury Liners. Cooked them myself, and after initial issues with cramped toes, they now fit perfectly - almost.

My perennial problem is low front foot volume (my foot, not the boots). The high volume Luxury Liners took up most volume and felt way firmer on my skinny feet than wrap type liners, but I still feel I could do with more downward pressure on my forefoot.

I've resorted to pads of EVA foam (approx 3 x 5") loosely stuck between tongue and liner. Would Bontex shims help? Can't seem to find any in NZ. How about an adhesive pad of foam, stuck to the liner and covering the tongue?

I'm loath to put a footbed in, as the liners have moulded perfectly to my feet, the soles of my feet too. They fit and ski so much better than anything I've ever tried, but still, it could be better.

All the best, and thanks in advance for any help and tips.

FWIW; Nordica Speedmachine 12, 28.5, 12-13mm shell fit, 29 hi-vol Luxury Liners.

[mntlion]

I would try a bit thicker sock?
shims or foam under the liner
might be able to make foam over the top of the liner, around teh ankle flex point, work?
a smaller shell, and make the shell longer?


speed machines are NOT a low volume boot.. maybe keep the liner, and look at a more racey volume shell?

[weasel1]

IB - What happens when you are skiing that makes you want to take up more room in the toe box? Is it solely space vertically above your toes that you want to take up? I'm with Mtnlion on the shell thoughts. That is not a low volume boot in the least. I have hobbit feet, and find the Doberman Pro (98mm last to the Speedmachine's 100mm) roomy. If you like the dynamics of the Nordicas, try the Dobie Pro/Girish/Enforcer Pro.

[Island Bay]

You guys are fast! Thanks for the advice.

Worth, it's not my toes. Maybe forefoot isn't the right term, should have said instep. To be more precise, my toes have a bit of wiggle room, nice. My heel is firmly stuck in a nice pocket. But from my ankle and about 5" ahead I could do with more hold downward. The width is perfect!

I may have the wrong boot, but then I've never been in a boot that didn't feel like that. For future reference, if I was to buy a beefy AT boot, which one would you think might suit me?

Thanks again - a lot!

[weasel1]

Nordica tends to be higher volume in the instep. For a burlier AT boot, Tecnica Cochise, though you may find it similarly roomy as well.