Maggot snowmobile thread

[dude_le_skibum]

i think it was advice from victoria jealhouse
1) always buy a sled in a big city. week-end warriors ride so much less
2)buy in the summer

i bought a 2003 M1 900 EFI artic cat a few years back for 2500$ with super low mileage,

it was a heavy f"*& with no reverse but great tandem sled, so much power, sold it after 2 years for 1800$ to a friend never spent a penny on it worked so great. good first sled ski

the new chassis are nicer but bang for the buck it was pretty good

[Tomcat67]

Is rebuilding a sleds top end similiar to rebuilding a dirtbikes? I have friends who do this all the time and it would save me a ton of $$. But i want it to be done right.
Got 3000 miles on both of the Summit 800s 2001 and 02' living on borrowed time i bet.
T

[Mannix]

Is rebuilding a sleds top end similiar to rebuilding a dirtbikes? I have friends who do this all the time and it would save me a ton of $$. But i want it to be done right.
Got 3000 miles on both of the Summit 800s 2001 and 02' living on borrowed time i bet.
T

Easier, nothing in the way.

Same concept, just two instead of one. Really pretty straightforward, especially on a ZX.



Iain

[DyingToLiveToSki]

Is rebuilding a sleds top end similiar to rebuilding a dirtbikes? I have friends who do this all the time and it would save me a ton of $$. But i want it to be done right.
Got 3000 miles on both of the Summit 800s 2001 and 02' living on borrowed time i bet.
T

Hey man, I don't know anything about dirtbikes but I am currently in the middle of a top end rebuild on my 02 summit. I am a rookie to top end builds but couple things that I picked up on when doing the job:

- make sure you drain the antifreeze from the head before you pull your cylinders... antifreeze down your crankcase will cause your bearings to rust. You can buy a small hand pump for like 10 bucks to siphon the antifreeze to prevent this. A shop vac is even better if you have access to one.
- those sleds have cageless needle bearings to when you take off your pistons they might come out and fall down your crankcase. Make sure you put a rag over your crankcase before you pull your old pistons off the connecting rods so nothing falls down there. I am replacing with caged needle bearings (easy to install - see pic below).

Might try to put together some pics from the build in this thread in a month or so if I get everything back together right. I am taking my time and doing a little at a time though so might be a while before its done. Sled has 3600 miles on it and the pistons and rings actually didn't look too bad when I pulled it apart.

[Tomcat67]

NIce job. Any tips would be appreciated. What pistons did u go with?

[DyingToLiveToSki]

NIce job. Any tips would be appreciated. What pistons did u go with?

I ended up going with the dual ring SPX pistons. They are branded as SPI in the states. They were pretty pricey but I think that is because everything in Canada seems to be more expensive. I would say based on how they look and how they installed they seem pretty good, I guess time will tell. They were the pistons that No Limits (doo dealer in Squamish) recommended for my old sled. I think a company called mcb performance sells cheap kits with gaskets too, no experience with them though, only reason I didn't go for them was because shipping to canada is expensive.

From what I heard, I would steer clear of Wiseco pistons unless you know what you are doing. I have heard since they are forged they need to be warmed up before your ride them hard and in some cases you need to hone out your cylinders to get the spec tolerance. I think they are really well made, strong pistons but you need to mess around to get them right.

[Tomcat67]

I seen those for sale. Felkers down in denver sells rev pistons which are about 360 for the kit. I hope I dont screw this up. Guess I should start soon so I can ride when the snow flies. KEep me updated.
T

[Mannix]

From what I heard, I would steer clear of Wiseco pistons unless you know what you are doing. I have heard since they are forged they need to be warmed up before your ride them hard and in some cases you need to hone out your cylinders to get the spec tolerance. I think they are really well made, strong pistons but you need to mess around to get them right.

Grains of salt on that, IMHO. I've used LOTS of Wisecos. I've had zero issues.

I also let stuff warm up before I get on it.

Oil the small end rod bearing before you put it in, or maybe some assembly lube if it is going to sit a while (overnight or longer) before you fire it up for the first time. I like to start it up, vary rpms a bit (no/light load), let it get fully warm, shut it off, let it cool, make sure there are no leaks, then I go ride it. Let it warm up, don't beat on it for the first 20? miles, IE, no LONG full throttle pulls, but certainly a little full throttle here and there. Let it cool off again, and on my 2t motors, that's it as far as "special treatment."

Dunno on the whole Wiseco thing - I think that's just a nasty internerd rumor. I've probably bought a dozen Wisecos, or more, for my 2 stroke motors, not had any issues.

If you DON'T let a sled warm up (or any motor) AND you put big load/wot on it, you should _expect_ problems. It is not the piston's fault.


Iain

[DyingToLiveToSki]

Fair enough, thanks for the info, much appreciated. I'll be stoked when I get the old beast back together...

[StuntCok]

Does anyone know where I can get the best custom made sled wraps/skins online. I am thinking of Poachninja-ing my RMK800 pro

[JJChit]

How much would is it typically to rebuild the top end of a ski doo summit 800 at the 1500 mile mark? I'm very new to all this, but I am looking at one with decent miles. I am just wondering about the cost to see if it is reasonable.

Would this sled be a good backcountry sled primarily for skiing. It has a 144 track... so is this swappable for a longer length? ( 2003). Thx from a sled JONG

[skibum193]

Buy my 04 summit for parts!

[BCJC]

looking at some arctic cat mc 800's. as i understand it, the crank was updated in 02 (better), and went efi in 03.

are these upgrades "much" better? if i'm not going above 5000', is efi neccessary?

anyone have real world info on how many km's is too much, ie parts failing, rebuilds required etc?

thanks!

[Mannix]

looking at some arctic cat mc 800's. as i understand it, the crank was updated in 02 (better), and went efi in 03.

are these upgrades "much" better? if i'm not going above 5000', is efi neccessary?

anyone have real world info on how many km's is too much, ie parts failing, rebuilds required etc?

thanks!

M8s are allegedly awesome; I've heard little bad about them & those I know who ride them love them.

EFI, *conceptually*, is better than carbs. Altitude should not be a consideration, all else equal - good carbs or good efi - I'll take EFI every single time. Fuel injection is awesome, and at this point, it seems to work well on sleds.

I'm not sure what year the last carbureted car was available in North America - probably mid 80s. Carbs work, and on sleds, they work surprisingly well (IMHO). Fuel injection is just better.

HOWEVER, first-year FI on ANYTHING kinda scares me a little. Do some research; if the 03 Cat EFI sucks, don't buy it. Carbs are a known quantity, and they work.

Altitude, though - nah, jetted correctly, carbs work at all elevations, fuel injection systems have some sort of compensation built in, or possibly a different fuel/timing curve needs flashed. My 05 SDI (something-something-injection) Skidoo can be plugged into Skidoo's software stuff & have one of, ummm, three, I think maps put on it.

So, no - efi is not _necessary_ based on altitude. I'd consider it desirable, as a concept, but dig around on Snowest or arctic-chat.com or whatever and see if THAT efi on THAT year sled is problematic.

Mountain sleds don't seem to get the miles that flatlander sleds do. How well it was cared for is a better indication than kms; that said, 5000kms seems like a reasonable number to stay below.

I bought my 03 Summit 700 with, uhhh, about 5000k on it. I did a top end at around 6500kms. I think it has ~9000k on it now (about 5000 miles, I think the math is close). Everything is fine. Sled is ugly, but everything works. I grease it frequently, take good mechanical care of it, and it is not the original track (went longer, original did not wear out, but it was looking kinda ragged).

I'd rather buy a sled with 5000k that has been maintained and taken care of than one with 2500k that was simply ridden and never touched.



Iain


Iain

[Jethro]

I would be Arctic cat EFI is pretty solid by now. I had a 98 580 Powder Special and its batteryless EFI ignition worked flawlessly for me

[Mannix]

Sold.....

[BCJC]

M8s are allegedly awesome; I've heard little bad about them & those I know who ride them love them.

EFI, *conceptually*, is better than carbs. Altitude should not be a consideration, all else equal - good carbs or good efi - I'll take EFI every single time. Fuel injection is awesome, and at this point, it seems to work well on sleds.

I'm not sure what year the last carbureted car was available in North America - probably mid 80s. Carbs work, and on sleds, they work surprisingly well (IMHO). Fuel injection is just better.

HOWEVER, first-year FI on ANYTHING kinda scares me a little. Do some research; if the 03 Cat EFI sucks, don't buy it. Carbs are a known quantity, and they work.

Altitude, though - nah, jetted correctly, carbs work at all elevations, fuel injection systems have some sort of compensation built in, or possibly a different fuel/timing curve needs flashed. My 05 SDI (something-something-injection) Skidoo can be plugged into Skidoo's software stuff & have one of, ummm, three, I think maps put on it.

So, no - efi is not _necessary_ based on altitude. I'd consider it desirable, as a concept, but dig around on Snowest or arctic-chat.com or whatever and see if THAT efi on THAT year sled is problematic.

Mountain sleds don't seem to get the miles that flatlander sleds do. How well it was cared for is a better indication than kms; that said, 5000kms seems like a reasonable number to stay below.

I bought my 03 Summit 700 with, uhhh, about 5000k on it. I did a top end at around 6500kms. I think it has ~9000k on it now (about 5000 miles, I think the math is close). Everything is fine. Sled is ugly, but everything works. I grease it frequently, take good mechanical care of it, and it is not the original track (went longer, original did not wear out, but it was looking kinda ragged).

I'd rather buy a sled with 5000k that has been maintained and taken care of than one with 2500k that was simply ridden and never touched.



Iain


Iain

I would be Arctic cat EFI is pretty solid by now. I had a 98 580 Powder Special and its batteryless EFI ignition worked flawlessly for me

thanks fellas, narrowing my choices down, appreciate the help.

[Sluff]

Got a 2006 Summit X 800 that needs a new seat. The foam in the seat is totally mushy. Looking to replace it with a Boss seat. Any beta from anyone riding with a Boss seat? I want the seat to be 2-3" higher than stock which the Boss seat provides. I really like how sticky / tacky the stock seat is. Any feedback on how the Boss seat material may match up?

[Blurred]

Got a 2006 Summit X 800 that needs a new seat. The foam in the seat is totally mushy. Looking to replace it with a Boss seat. Any beta from anyone riding with a Boss seat? I want the seat to be 2-3" higher than stock which the Boss seat provides. I really like how sticky / tacky the stock seat is. Any feedback on how the Boss seat material may match up?

Boss seats are great. Have one on my m1000 and had one on my king. Durable and comfortable. BUY IT

[ACH]

X2 on the Boss seat.
The extra ride height (while sitting) makes more difference then you would think, especially after the day starts to get long.
It will also cut some weight off your sled.
The OEM seats are heavy.

[Sluff]

Thanks for the feedback on the Boss seat. It's getting ordered tomorrow.

[ridevt]

x3 on the Boss. Put one on my 04 Summit last year and the ride height difference is incredible. I found mine used for $300! Plus it's got good storage.

Question for the experienced sledders.. I bought this sled last year (04 Summit Highmark 159) with 2700 miles. It had a brand new engine installed by a local shop 200 miles prior to my purchase (receipt in hand, $2400!). No mods other than a HPS can + simmons powder pro's. It also had new plugs/belt installed and the clutch pulled/cleaned. Sled ran great all year although I only put around 350 miles on it. Added a vent kit + Boss seat. Plan to put to put some WRP running boards to avoid snow build-up (which is awful on this sled).

My question is; what to do for preseason work? I put stabilizer in the tank so that should be good. My rear shock tops out a bit when you yank the rear of the sled around. Is this worth fixing? It doesn't slam very bad in the woops?? Belt has no burns and seems pretty tight. Any help for this NOOB would be much appreciated. I enjoy working on the machine and want to keep it running well.

[Sluff]

Replace your front and rear shocks with Fox Float 2's. Did that to mine last year. Outstanding performance. We do a lot of two up riding for skiing and the rear bottoming out issue on went away. You can adjust the pressure in them too so you can beef up the rear as needed and run the front shocks with about 35-40 psi to make getting the sled on one ski a breeze.

[Mannix]

My question is; what to do for preseason work? I put stabilizer in the tank so that should be good. My rear shock tops out a bit when you yank the rear of the sled around. Is this worth fixing? It doesn't slam very bad in the woops?? Belt has no burns and seems pretty tight. Any help for this NOOB would be much appreciated. I enjoy working on the machine and want to keep it running well.

- Change chaincase oil
- Remove skis, push out steel sleeve, clean it, grease it, reinstall
- Grease all the zerks, especially the driveshaft bearing - left side of sled, down low - the shaft that goes through the track with the drivers
- Ride.

Should be in a good spot. I take my carbs off annually and blow them out with solvent and compressed air, but I'd bet that'd be academic seeing as how recently things were apart(although you don't know the last time it was done, sooo...?)



Iain

[tobytortorelli]

Add to preseason checklist...
-Check chain tension when chaincase cover is off. It can loosen up.
-Change carbides, if you have them, and they are worn or not smooth.
-Clean clutches (ongoing).
-Check slider wear and replace if thin.
-Check rear spring supports for deep grooves and replace (cheap).
-Top up fluids, buy non-ethanol gas (ongoing).