Maggot snowmobile thread

[GoNads]

Good luck getting a 550 fan up anywhere around Whistler. People still flail around on new 800cc XP's here and can't always get up certain routes/areas.

550 fan is fine for trails or flats. Not for mountains or tandeming/skiing.

[overboard]

Definitely use rivets when replacing the nun.
Also make sure you use an air rivet gun.
Go find a smart odd job mechanic that has the tools and they will probably put it back together for less than $100.
I think nuts and bolts would rattle loose.
Get insurance.

[kidwoo]

I think nuts and bolts would rattle loose.

That's why jesus said "and woe onto thee who knoweth not of loc-tite and lock washers, for he is a dumbass"


Rivets are good and light and stuff, and obviously work. But chances are this won't be your only nun replacement if you have the sled for a while. That's all.

[kidwoo]

Here is my 2 cents from a mechanics perspective.

Anything with a rotax 550 fan is just about bomb proof. There is a reason sleds with this engine were a rental fleet favorite. Obviously this engine doesn't kick out the power of something in the big bore liquid class. But for your average rider who just wants to get a little further from the trail head it is a solid choice. This engine comes in a variety of chassis from the Legend to the Tundra, Skandic and even the 2 up Expedition.

Here's my 2 cents from someone who rides snowmobiles where it snows and has ridden a 550 fan.

Anything with a rotax 550 fan is just about powder proof. There is a reason sleds with this engine were a rental fleet favorite. Mostly because they're such pussy sleds that renters can't get themselves into trouble. Obviously this engine doesn't kick out the power of anything in the big bore liquid class that's actually made for riding in snow. But for your below average rider who just wants to get a little further from the trail head it is a solid choice, because technically 100ft down a groomed road is 'a little farther from the trailhead'. This engine comes in a variety of chassis from the Legend to the Tundra, Skandic and even the 2 up Expedition. Steer clear of all of them if you actually want to get anywhere after a storm.

[VC]

Definitely use rivets when replacing the nun.
Also make sure you use an air rivet gun.
Go find a smart odd job mechanic that has the tools and they will probably put it back together for less than $100.
I think nuts and bolts would rattle loose.
Get insurance.

Put two seasons riding on my nun and anyone who has ridden with me knows I don't exactly baby my stuff. Well I'm parting my sled and just pulled the nun and the bolts were as tight as the day I put them in. I went with red loctite over nylon nuts because of heat issues in the engine compartment.

This engine comes in a variety of chassis from the Legend to the Tundra, Skandic and even the 2 up Expedition. Steer clear of all of them if you actually want to get anywhere after a storm.

I agree with what you're saying about the 550f engine, but don't try to talk bad about the skandic. The skandic swt will in time prove itself to be the greatest sled skiing machine ever.

[kidwoo]

The skandic swt will in time prove itself to be the greatest sled skiing machine ever.

So just get one already. I've got a cooler we can bolt on the back.


But why would you NOT want the ones with a 600 etec H.O.?


I admit the rental sled I rode may have had a governor on it but it was actually kind of fun to grab coworker's bumpers behind them when they'd hit the throttle. You could seriously keep them (all 8 of them) from going anywhere.

[Schralper]

The best 550 b/c towing machine, EVER
This bigboy has been everywhere!
Just not a winning high marker

[redneckdan]

From a mechanics perspective, what do you think about my Nun replacement? nuts and bolts instead of rivets?

Coming from a skier, I would whole heartedly disagree with your sled choice. A mountain sled works on the trails but a trail sled doesn't work in the mountains.

The reason rivets are used by the manufacturer is speed of assembly. A nut and bolt is stronger than a rivet though the extra strength is not needed, use a quality permanent thread locker and it won't come loose. Bolts will weight more. I've done a couple nun swap outs and used rivets, i have the tools and the rivets are cheaper. Some of the chassis rivets are sold steel rivets, don't replace them with aluminum pop rivets. I totally strip the front end down, for me it was faster to get the old nun out and the new part in being able to get full access to all the parts. Look into the '07 MXZ-X race version of the Nun, has more braces. Factory race sleds have the Nun bolted in instead of rivets, they get thrashed fairly often.

A lot depends on the rider. Keep in mind a stripped down phazer used to be the kick ass mountain sled before the big 4 started building mountain sleds. Obviously every body does it differently but people I have skied with use the sled to cover the flat ground and skin the steeps. Most skiers are going to be below average riders, they are out there to ski not ride.

The SWT is a kick ass machine, until it breaks or gets stuck. It does work great for hauling multiple people, even up hills. I've had two people on the seat, one in the back rack and another 4 on a tow rope while i'm standing up practically straddling the handle bars.

Transmission issues:
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index....owtopic=136835
http://s8.zetaboards.com/snowgroomin...opic/124118/1/

There are many more examples on forums all over the internet. I have swapped in several of the post'03 transmissions that use tapered roller bearings instead of radial balls. This has not total alleviated the issues. Most people who use the sleds on flat ground get around 10,000km from a transmission. When you start riding up and down hills this noticeably decreases transmission life. I have seen several that died within a year. The Yamaha VK 540 doesn't seem to have this issue.

[Mannix]

6000 miles = a LOT of towing.

6000 miles = WAY longer than the average life expectancy of the typical 800cc mountain sled motor.

I think I've put ~1500 miles on my primary sled since I got it - I believe it is just over 5000 miles now, bought it at 3600. That's 3 full seasons of skiing just about every weekend.

The Skidoo utility sled transmissions (1-2-R) DO break, over time, and they are expensive to fix. Naturally, it'd suck to buy one with a "good" tranny just to have it blow up 2 rides later, but it'd suck to buy a sled with a "good" whatever just to have it blow up 2 rides later - that's the risk we all take, frankly.

Most people that tow stuff with the Skandics are towing groomers, piles of logs, IE, heavy stuff that does not slide - not <800# of skiers. 2-4 skiers hanging off the back will barely faze a Skandic.

A "weak" transmission is, IMHO, not a reason to avoid Skandics. Find one recently rebuilt OR one well taken care of, negotiate a fair price & bank on it blowing up. Once it does, fix it (or just fix the crap that breaks before it breaks) and have a 6000ish-mile window of "should be good."

6000 miles should be several seasons of skiing for most of us......

I don't have one yet because timing has not been right - sled available, no money or vice versa. They're hard to find. My only concern is just how much they "suck" for going up steep hills - I have to ride one myself to see, everyone's definition of "steep" is different.

Now, cost no object, the 2012 WT with the hotrod 2 stroke should bridge the gap nicely - 110ish hp, 20" wide track, articulated skid, allegedly, they work very well in the hills.

Dunno. I really, really want one, I'm a little leery of their steep & deep capabilities (but I have a mountain sled for that, so......), I'm convinced that for Colorado, they'd do Just Fine most of the time (where a wind event is as likely to create a powder day as an actual snowstorm - PacNW? BC? Steeper terrain/more snow at once? Dunno....), ehhh, soon. Missed one here in CO just last week. Oh well.

IMHO, a transmission that is known to fail every SIX THOUSAND miles should be the least of one's concerns (and there are plenty which have lasted way, way more than 6k miles....)



Iain

[GoNads]

The best 550 b/c towing machine, EVER
This bigboy has been everywhere!
Just not a winning high marker

If that's where you're towing.. it's pretty damn flat.

[el hefe]

"Here is my 2 cents from a mechanics perspective.

Anything with a rotax 550 fan is just about bomb proof. There is a reason sleds with this engine were a rental fleet favorite. Obviously this engine doesn't kick out the power of something in the big bore liquid class. But for your average rider who just wants to get a little further from the trail head it is a solid choice. This engine comes in a variety of chassis from the Legend to the Tundra, Skandic and even the 2 up Expedition.

I advise against anything with the 2speed+Reverse transmission. They do not hold up over the long haul. This is the part on a skandic that breaks the most, and a lot of these repairs can only be done by Ski Doo. Figure 1200-$1500.

The WT and SWT ride like a friggin battle ship. The newer REV chassiss is slightly better but not by much. I have seen one indivdual ever who could carve in deep snow on a skandic, his riding style could be best desrcibed as 'hate fucking'. I assume anyone interested would be getting the pre-REV version since it would be more affordable. God help you if you ever get one stuck. By the time you figure in the all steel tunnel/skid, equipment on board and heavy wet snow packed into the suspension the pig is pushing 1000lbs Even with a winch on the back and the articulated skid more often than not the only way to get it out is to pull it from the front with another skandic or a snow cat or use a high lift jack to lift the back end and kick it over."

You ever sled ski?

[ACH]

I suppose it depends on where he is...
There is a pretty extensive groomed trail system in the PNW that would allow people with basic fan cooled sleds plenty of access to terrain where they can start skinning. That said, don't bother bringing out the fan cooled sleds if it's a PNW powder day and the trail hasn't been groomed or well broken in by other sledders.

[Schralper]

of course it's flat, it's OR

[kidwoo]

Riding tandem is just too comical to only rely on skinning at the end of a groomed trail.

Everyone with a sled really needs to experience it.

[ACH]

of course it's flat, it's OR

Maybe, but I know where that's at...

[simple]

See, that is why my Summit 500F just gets me by. It is like driving a Honda Civic. Good enough to get around and super reliable but also makes you realize you aren't going to be able to get any hoes with it.

[AKturnanburn]

Riding tandem is just too comical to only rely on skinning at the end of a groomed trail.

Everyone with a sled really needs to experience it.

Don't forget to add "in alpine boots with resort skis strapped on your back"

Some of the shit you see is like a modern version of the Warren miller rope tow junk show clips.

While packing up in the parking lot after riding one day we watched a dude trying to load his sled in his truck for at least 15min. After a broken tailight and a asphalt roll we couldn't take anymore and gave him a hand. I remember the learning curve and all, but really? Some people should just stick to the resort.

[kidwoo]

While packing up in the parking lot after riding one day we watched a dude trying to load his sled in his truck for at least 15min. After a broken tailight and a asphalt roll we couldn't take anymore and gave him a hand.

I think I would have just cheered.

I finally built a rack this year that holds my ski boots with some old alpine trekker bases and bales. Very happy with myself.

[linds-o-rama]

of course it's flat, it's OR

I can't wait to ski this zone! Snow!snow!snow!snow!

I rode six different sleds last year. This one was my favorite:



Thankfully the hubby gave me a sweet Apex Mountain for my bday

[backcountryislife]

Thankfully the hubby gave me a sweet Apex Mountain for my bday

It's got to be rough being in a marriage absent of love...

If I bought my wife an apex... I think she'd just steal my sled & leave the apex for me as punishment!!


Hey Mannix, you getting out again this weekend (and staying past 9am)??? I haven't bent any metal in... well, about 5 days. Gotta go remedy that on sat.

[Mannix]

Hey Mannix, you getting out again this weekend (and staying past 9am)??? I haven't bent any metal in... well, about 5 days. Gotta go remedy that on sat.

Yah, Saturday, but currently planning on ~10mi north and ~5mi east. Early in, as usual. Prob out Sunday, too, not sure where - depends how Saturday goes.


Iain

[backcountryislife]

Hitting Church tomorrow if you're up for coming a little further. That's the best snow I've found this season.

[powder11]

who needs an expensive sled deck anyway?

[Jacolac]

Just picked up my first ever sled, a 2002 Polaris RMK 800 with a 156 track, 1800 miles for $2200 Canadian. Good buy for sled skiing with two people? Should I be able to tow people with this too?

Seems like they had some issues with the crank blowing up but that can be fixed by adding a wider bearing which I plan to do before it blows.

Plan to make my own ski rack and saw one DIY rack made out of a gun rack to the rear and an ankle strap from a snowboard binding to the front to crank/hold the skis down. Like so:



Good idea? No way am I spending $600 on a CFR rack.

[dinlaroche]

Just picked up my first ever sled, a 2002 Polaris RMK 800 with a 156 track, 1800 miles for $2200 Canadian. Good buy for sled skiing with two people? Should I be able to tow people with this too?

Seems like they had some issues with the crank blowing up but that can be fixed by adding a wider bearing which I plan to do before it blows.

Plan to make my own ski rack and saw one DIY rack made out of a gun rack to the rear and an ankle strap from a snowboard binding to the front to crank/hold the skis down. Like so:



Good idea? No way am I spending $600 on a CFR rack.

For $25 I built myself a nice low profile rack using some polyethylene plastic I bought from Lee Valley for $20 and some bolts from home depot. Low profile, and strong, built the way I wanted it. I use bungees to strap them down on my sled and I use snowboard straps on the girlfriend’s sled.

I'll try to get some pictures when I have time.