formula 1 maggots

**Adolf Allerbush** · 12-12-2021, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Let me try to explain.
When the safety car comes out, you cannot pass, and they group up and close the gap.
BUT there were lapped cars in between Hamilton and Verstappen....
So with only 1 or 2 laps remaining race control typically has 2 options,
Option 1 - let ALL the lapped cars pass the safety car, and restart the race with Pos 1 and Pos 2 etc in order.
Option 2- start the race with the lapped cars in place, and the lapped cars need to yield to faster cars (non lapped) behind them.

The controversy is that race control did not command the lapped cars to pass the safety car, so it seemed that they would restart the race with Option 2, and Hamilton would have had the advantage.
If they tried to go with Option 1 it would have taken 2 full laps to get the lapped cars in order, and the race would have ended under yellow a flag, with Hamilton winning.
Race Control pulled Option 3 and only told the 5 lapped (only those between Ver and Ham) cars to pass the safety, putting Verstappen right behind Hamilton to be able to race 1 lap to the finish.
Race Control wanted a checkered flag decided on racing, not following a pace car to decide the championship.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding of how it played out.

Thanks. And Verstappen getting a tire change in there obviously helped.

**snapt** · 12-12-2021, 09:32 AM

Correct. And Toto didn’t pit Lewis assuming it would be either option 1 or 2. When option 3 came down at the last second Lewis didn’t stand a chance with 40 lap old tires vs Max’s fresh softs. Max was gifted the win and season.

**Iowagriz** · 12-12-2021, 09:37 AM

Future sessions will have team lawyers in a room or on a zoom call with a judge to make their cases. Guarantee there will be law suits from this race. Too much money at stake.

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**schindlerpiste** · 12-12-2021, 09:45 AM

HOLY SHIITE!!!

**Svengali** · 12-12-2021, 09:52 AM

FIA aren’t done yet…..

**Art Shirk** · 12-12-2021, 09:57 AM

No love for Hammy but that was fucking horseshit.

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**4matic** · 12-12-2021, 11:47 AM

F1 gonna have "lucky dog" yella flags next year.

**4matic** · 12-12-2021, 12:13 PM

I like that F1 has added luck to the racing. It gives that same element I like about Indycar when you're hoping for a yellow. Maybe they should limit pit stop crews too.

**k2skier112** · 12-12-2021, 03:17 PM

Ending under yellow would have ben the worst possible outcome. (This is why NASCAR went to Green, Whit, Checker so it is a 2 lap sprint) All the other lapped cars behind Max weren't going to come into play

I'm glad Lewis' dad pulled him aside and had a chat. After Lewis not driving to the winners circle I was expecting a meltdown

GOAT's aren't just know for winning, but how well they handle defeat

Max and Red Bull dominated this year

Lewis will be hungry nest year and Lewis will get next season is my guess. MB has a leg up on next years changes

It cracked me up when Lewis called Perez out for dangerous driving...not everyone is going to pull over and let you pass, especially after you slowed down too much and had too large of a gap to the safety car last week, Lewis got 2 freebies that most other drivers would have been penalized on

Toto fucked up this race by not pitting Lewis every time Max pitted, that was the biggest reason MB lost

**PNWbrit** · 12-12-2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by k2skier112

Ending under yellow would have ben the worst possible outcome. (This is why NASCAR went to Green, Whit, Checker so it is a 2 lap sprint) All the other lapped cars behind Max weren't going to come into play

I'm glad Lewis' dad pulled him aside and had a chat. After Lewis not driving to the winners circle I was expecting a meltdown

GOAT's aren't just know for winning, but how well they handle defeat

Max and Red Bull dominated this year

Lewis will be hungry nest year and Lewis will get next season is my guess. MB has a leg up on next years changes

It cracked me up when Lewis called Perez out for dangerous driving...not everyone is going to pull over and let you pass, especially after you slowed down too much and had too large of a gap to the safety car last week, Lewis got 2 freebies that most other drivers would have been penalized on

Toto fucked up this race by not pitting Lewis every time Max pitted, that was the biggest reason MB lost

This.

Absolutely.

**Iowagriz** · 12-12-2021, 03:58 PM

MB strategy over the past 5+ races was terrible. The data geeks and strategy team should be fired.

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**truckeelocal** · 12-12-2021, 05:15 PM

Circular firing squad to find who was/is responsible for this unsatisfactory resolution to the season. Then again how else would one expect it to end ?

But I've got one. Latifi.

**dunfree** · 12-12-2021, 05:50 PM

That was max’s second most embarrassing race win this year.

**PNWbrit** · 12-12-2021, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by dunfree

That was max’s second most embarrassing race win this year.

If Hamilton wins the championship by an appeal to the court of arbitration it'll be the most embarrassing championship win ever.

It was entirely appropriate to let the (few not all) lapped cars through. (The regs give complete control of the safety car to the race director)

Hamilton should have been made to give the lead back after an entirely fair pass by Max. He probably would have then won on simple tire strategy thereafter anyway. Mercedes screwed up.

**dunfree** · 12-12-2021, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

If Hamilton wins the championship by an appeal to the court of arbitration it'll be the most embarrassing championship win ever.

It was entirely appropriate to let the (few not all) lapped cars through. (The regs give complete control of the safety car to the race director)

Hamilton should have been made to give the lead back after an entirely fair pass by Max. He probably would have then won on simple tire strategy thereafter anyway. Mercedes screwed up.

And still not as embarrassing as the Belgian GP “win” of max’s this year, which thankfully isn’t a title decider either way. The whole fucking one lap “race” behind safety car.

yes, different things would have led to a Mercedes victory. I don’t classify it a “screwup” because they also could have lost the race. The uneven administration of F1 screwed up this year.

**fool** · 12-12-2021, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Do you have a cable connection with ESPN?

Their smart tv app or website have full race and prerace show on demand.

F1 is really tight on closing down unofficial versions of their content. Good luck finding one.

Thanks, Dee and PNWbrit. I don’t have a cable connection but I realized the friends I was staying with this weekend have Youtube TV, so I recorded it and watched it later today. Insane race.

Originally Posted by k2skier112

Toto fucked up this race by not pitting Lewis every time Max pitted, that was the biggest reason MB lost

What about the thought that RB would have done the opposite of MB? Because they had nothing to lose. And I also thought that maybe the timing of Lewis’ pits wouldn’t (couldn’t?) work out as well as Max’s? But, I am an F1 newbie.

**k2skier112** · 12-12-2021, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by fool

Thanks, Dee and PNWbrit. I don’t have a cable connection but I realized the friends I was staying with this weekend have Youtube TV, so I recorded it and watched it later today. Insane race.

What about the thought that RB would have done the opposite of MB? Because they had nothing to lose. And I also thought that maybe the timing of Lewis’ pits wouldn’t (couldn’t?) work out as well as Max’s? But, I am an F1 newbie.

On the first pit stop RB made sure, MB needed track position. The last safety car, Lewis was fuct staying out on old tires, and he knew it

**Dexter Rutecki** · 12-12-2021, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by powcom

Complete bull shit

Not the first time this year, either. Fucking clown show of FIA incompetence. FIA, sponsored by Red Bull...

**k2skier112** · 12-13-2021, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Not the first time this year, either. Fucking clown show of FIA incompetence. FIA, sponsored by Red Bull...

If you don't think Toto and MB have massive pull on the FIA decisions...Lewis gets more calls going his way every year, it comes with being a GOAT
Just look at lap 1 fer christ sake, any other driver would had to have given the spot back
I don't know of any, ANY motorsport that doesn't have some rules that makes life hell for race directors

MV lead the points all year, he deserved it. Why do you think MB is bringing in Russell, Lewis is getting old, close to 40, time for young blood in the stable. And we all know how whiney old guys gets...

**Tamburello Rouge** · 12-13-2021, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by k2skier112

If you don't think Toto and MB have massive pull on the FIA decisions...Lewis gets more calls going his way every year, it comes with being a GOAT
Just look at lap 1 fer christ sake, any other driver would had to have given the spot back.

That other driver was MV last week. He got a five second time penalty, was asked to slow down to give the place back TWICE, and then was given another ten second time penalty post race. All for doing exactly what LH did yesterday. Those saying the FIA is biased toward MV and RB are full of sh!t.

Mercedes lost on strategy. They had two opportunities to pit LH for fresh rubber under a VSC or SC and chose not to. On the restart he didn't have the grip. Go figure.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 12-13-2021, 10:50 AM

Not sure if trolling or not, but I've rarely heard anyone whine as much as Verstappen does. Every. Single. Race. Irony is he has gotten more wiggle room as the anointed one since his first year in F1. If any other driver drove like he does they'd set a record for penalties. Max the missile.
Threw up in my mouth a little when he whined all race, and then when they officially awarded it to him (allowing only those cars in his way to unlap) he said 'finally.' As if all those other calls going his way never happened.
And when LH brake checks Max to the tune of 2.4g(!) causing yet another collision, then maybe you could make a valid comparison.

**The Suit** · 12-13-2021, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Tamburello Rouge

That other driver was MV last week. He got a five second time penalty, was asked to slow down to give the place back TWICE, and then was given another ten second time penalty post race. All for doing exactly what LH did yesterday. Those saying the FIA is biased toward MV and RB are full of sh!t.

Mercedes lost on strategy. They had two opportunities to pit LH for fresh rubber under a VSC or SC and chose not to. On the restart he didn't have the grip. Go figure.

I don't agree with your "all for doing exactly what LH did". Max figured out that he could dive under Lewis into a corner, brake late and run wide, and Lewis would go off the track rather than crash. Max did that multiple times in the second half of the season. Some times the stewards let him get away with it, and sometimes they didn't. I do agree that the FIA wasn't obviously biased towards either team. It sucked that so much of the season came down to calls by the stewards, but those went both ways.

In hindsight, it's clear that Mercedes made a bad call by not pitting Lewis for new tires, but that's a hard call to make when you're in front. For Red Bull it was much more obvious. They only had to give up time, and there was no way Max was going to catch Lewis otherwise. Mercedes would have lost track position.

**Art Shirk** · 12-13-2021, 12:00 PM

Do the regs allow Masi to make stupid calls? Yes. Doesnt mean they aren't stupid.

A blurb from the Guardian (yeah yeah UK bias) article that sums up the gymnastics:

The instruction that lapped cars could not unlap followed. To which Red Bull complained. Then Masi announced that the five cars between Hamilton and Verstappen could unlap themselves but not the other lapped cars behind them, an unprecedented halfway house interpretation of the rules and to which Mercedes complained.

Masi had used discretion to dictate which cars could unlap themselves based on the rationale that they were the cars that would interfere in the racing between the leaders. Yet in order to do so the rules state that: “Once the last lapped car has passed the leader, the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.” However the end of the following lap would have been too late as the race would have then been over. So this too was overruled and it came in immediately to allow the final lap to begin. In rejecting the Mercedes’ appeal Masi’s “overriding authority” over the safety car use was cited.

Were it not already confusing enough for the average fan this presents some tortuous logical leaps. Masi had decided to overrule the lapped cars rule, and then in turn had to overrule the application of that rule regarding the safety car in order to achieve the end he was committed to making – a final racing lap.

**basinbeater** · 12-13-2021, 01:00 PM

I'm not a fanatic, but I enjoy F1. Shame to see the championship decided by race officials.

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**Pinned** · 12-13-2021, 01:30 PM

It is absurd to me that Masi and the FIA continue to modify the rules on a case by case basis yet manage to do a bad job of it almost every time.

Mercedes strategy was perfect - it played the rules/regulations to their favor entirely. The FIA chose to do something that hasn't been done before and that changed the dynamic. Hopefully 2022 starts out more even for the entire field. The speed differential is so great with the outgoing cars from the front of the grid to the back that it's complicated the rules a bit.