Steepest skiable angle?

[iceman]

I was just reading about some guy who skied "...a 70-degree B.C. face." Sounds kinda impossible to me, but what do I know.

Is there some theoretical or practical angle it is impossible to go beyond (yeah, past 90 would be rough, I know) or does anyone have an idea what the steepest ever skied might be?

Just wondering on a summer morning.

[EPSkis]

I've skied 72 degrees.

edit: in

[Crinkle]

i guess it would depend on snow condition and the length of that suistained angle. Cause if it was 70 degrees for less than 30 meters in chest deep pow. I supose its possible. I imagine the BC guys know at what pitch a run won't hold snow on.

[snowsprite]

I guess there is a point at which you are more or less just sliding down the hill on your side...then you simply lose contact and begin to freefall? Sounds nifty in theory!

I am sure that pondering this could keep my engineer husband's brain sputtering for days. I will be sure to mention it to him.

Sprite

[zion zig zag]

Somebody posted a vid a while back of one of the gaffneys skiing a 70 degree spine, he made a hop turn and free-fell about 10 feet. I'd say anything over 70 is a huck.

[Spamhelmet]

Messieur Pierre Tardivell recollected in some of his interview like: " maximum angle on the run is between 67-70´."
That particular route was on La Meije, if i remember right..

So i guess that is quite safe ti assume that skiing 70´ slope is the maximum that human beings are capalble to maintan controlled turns on a route.

Short sections of steeper pitches might be magable with one ski slides or with a snowboard.

[Obstruction]

Originally posted by EPSkis
I've skied 72 degrees.

edit: in

Sounds kinda warm. Musta been slushy.

[LCC]

The engineering term for it is Angle of Repose

This is the maximum angle in which a granular substance can be stacked. Think of pouring salt onto a table into a pyramid. Different substances have different angles. Salt will be different than sugar, which is different than road salt, dirt, gravel, and snow. Even snow has different angles, depending on where it falls.

Wasatch snow won't hold as steep of an angle as the Sierras. So to ski really steep conditions, we need wetter snow. So you have to think of where this angle would be. Coastal mountain ranges tend to have wetter snow, which will adhere to steeper slopes. Then add in the angle of repose and there you have it.

I've heard of people skiing slope angles in the 70-80 degree range, but that is about it. Roping in to ski as Andrew McClean has in the past, is skiing, or rapelling?

EDIT for spelling.

[iceman]

I would think that at 80 degrees you couldn't get both skis in contact with the cliff...errr, hill.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by LCC
The engineering term for it is Angle of Reprose

Isn't that reserved for editing poetry?

[Spicoli]

The answer is:
89 degrees (unless you need to turn)

[LCC]

Originally posted by Buster Highmen
Isn't that reserved for editing poetry?

Nice catch, fixed my little spelling problem.

From ask.com:


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Mass Wasting
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The downhill movement of soil and loose unconsolidated sediments is due to the force of gravity and is resisted by the force of friction. The forces of gravity and friction are in balance at the angle of repose which is the maximum slope angle that unconsolidated materials can maintain. At angles steeper than the angle of repose friction is not sufficient to counter gravity and mass wasting occurs. At angles less than the angle of repose gravity cannot overcome friction and sediments may accumulate to form steeper slopes.

Water plays an important role in mass wasting. Dry sediments have no cohesion. Damp sediments are cohesive as water coats the sedimentary grains and holds them together with its surface tension (surface tension is the result of the dipolar nature of water). The angle of repose increases (think of a sand castle). In water saturated sediments all the pore spaces are filled with water. Water pressure and water's buoyancy forces reduce the friction between the grains thereby decreasing the angle of repose and possibly causing mass wasting.

The two basic classes of mass wasting are flows and slides. In flows, the material behaves as a fluid. Soil creep, earthflows, and mudflows are examples. In slides, the material behaves as a rigid solid that detaches along a basal surface. Slumps and landslides are examples.

Steady soaking rains, undercutting slopes for road building and house sites, and removal of vegetation by fires, etc may induce mass wasting.

[Greydon Clark]

Like cock size, people overstate the pitch of their gnarly descents... even knowledgeable and talented individuals.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by LCC
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Mass Wasting
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...Steady soaking rains, undercutting slopes for road building and house sites, and removal of vegetation by fires, etc may induce mass wasting.

I found college to precipitate a lot of mass wasting.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

In order to answer this question, you need to define what it means to be skiable. Skis in constant contact with the snow? If that's the case then Gaffney's run wouldn't count because he jump turned and free fell about 10 feet or so. If a person skis a run with a huck off of a 50 foot vertical cliff, then did he or she not ski that vertical section, or is that not skiing? Or if a person thinks that they skied the run, but the run didn't actually exist in any dimensions which are perceivable to the human senses and are therefore unable to be measured with convential tools, is that run said to be skiable?

[iceman]

I say hop turn-to-freefall is still skiing, as long as you can set an edge and stop at the end of the freefall prior to another hop turn.

[sea2ski]

Originally posted by iceman
I say hop turn-to-freefall is still skiing, as long as you can set an edge and stop at the end of the freefall prior to another hop turn.

So I guess my answer of 360 degrees achieved by straight lining a snow covered loop with a jet pack ala Tony Hawk on skateboard wouldn't fit your definition.

[Greydon Clark]

http://www.csus.edu/npr/Insight/gaffney2.jpg
Was this interview on steep skiing or hot tub airs?

[Trackhead]

originally posted by Greydon Clark:
Like cock size, people overstate the pitch of their gnarly descents... even knowledgeable and talented individuals.

Some guy rips down the first descent of Random Peak and says:
"I estimate it to be a consisten 55-60 degree face."

Female bystander says:
"More like 35-40 degrees."

I agree, easy to overestimate angles for sake of ego. Easier to relate it to:

You Fall-You Die

or

You Fall-You Don't Die

[3o3]

Originally posted by Walter Sobchak
Scroll down a ways to 04/06/03, "Dr. Robb Gaffney on the psychology of steep skiing," or just search for Gaffney, on this page:

http://www.csus.edu/npr/we-exchange/wearchive.htm

He talks about skiing anything over a certain pitch (over 55, I think) as being "controlled falling."

I can't get those links to work, but I remember listening to that interview on NPR and being depressed at learning that the stuff I thought was steep wasn't shite.

Here's the pic from the NPR page:

http://www.csus.edu/npr/Insight/gaffney1.jpg

How about that spire that VJ heelslid in HighLife. That had to be pushing 80 degrees.

Edit: Is it possible to descend steeper slopes on a snowboard since your hips and shoulders aren't in the way?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I've been laying down schmear turns and hip checks on a lot of virgin superpipe walls this season. these walls are nearly vertical and xtrem. first descents yo.

[Greydon Clark]

Originally posted by Trackhead
Some guy rips down the first descent of Random Peak and says:
"I estimate it to be a consisten 55-60 degree face."

As a shredder of the gnarr, I'm sure you'll agree that side-slipping a radically steep pitch to cliff huck--while fucking rad-- is very different than pasting turns on a big, steep sustained face or claustrophobic chute. Seriously, if we're going to speculate wildly about things way beyond our own abilities we need to have a common starting point.

I wish ski movies showed more truly steep skiing, sure it is slow and boring, but I'd love to watch a guy like A. McLean or D. Coombs work a technical line. (I guess want more chute skiing, ala, the Black and Nobis in Highlife. Also, what is up with Mr. Black wearing the Paris Hilton style Smith's in that part of the movie? Yeah they are a spancer. Yeah your in Italy. But a dude needs to maintain his dignity.)

[Crinkle]

Originally posted by 3o3
Edit: Is it possible to descend steeper slopes on a snowboard since your hips and shoulders aren't in the way?

I think so, since you only have one edge to worry about and the angle that you stand on your board in reference to your edge is so much different than skiing. You could litterally slide down a 80 degree slope since you can stand perpendicular to the slope on your board. If you tried to stand perpindicular to the slope on skis, your downhill ski either would not be on the snow or your leg would be so much further downhill from the uphill ski, your center of gravity would make it physically impossible to ski. (you would tumble down slope if you did nothing but point it.)

[CantDog]

Originally posted by Crinkle
I think so, since you only have one edge to worry about and the angle that you stand on your board in reference to your edge is so much different than skiing. You could litterally slide down a 80 degree slope since you can stand perpendicular to the slope on your board. If you tried to stand perpindicular to the slope on skis, your downhill ski either would not be on the snow or your leg would be so much further downhill from the uphill ski, your center of gravity would make it physically impossible to ski. (you would tumble down slope if you did nothing but point it.)

Hmm, one thing to think about though is if your upperbody is up against the face, then its going to be really hard to maintain pressure on your board edge. Isnt this the reason you see kids screamin down a hill, realize its too step, throw their board sideways and their weight into the hill, and the board flies out from under them?

With skis you can lean downhill while still putting pressure on your uphill edges.

[phUnk]

With super-steep stuff, your body gets in its own way. You can't get your hip/shoulder/elbow out of the way because it keeps banging into the wall that's about 2.5' from your head.

I've skied Central Couloir in Jackson (off Cody) with really hard snow and I think that measures about 66 degrees. Definitely the steepest sustained pitch I've ever skied.

How about Holden's line in Parental Advisory, or was it that no-name movie that happened to have Holden's 150 foot huck on the cover? Steeeeeep and deeeep. Pretty nutty.