War in Georgia?

[wi3dzmin]

As far as information sources you can trust on this.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...n-hackers.html

Blogs seem to be more reliable in terms of authenticity.

Edit: Some dude (journalist?), recently evacuated from Tskhinvali says neither side should be trusted. No surprises there.

http://m-romanoff.livejournal.com/34433.html

[Adolf Allerbush]

As far as information sources you can trust on this.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...n-hackers.html

Blogs seem to be more reliable in terms of authenticity.

Edit: Some dude (journalist?), recently evacuated from Tskhinvali says neither side should be trusted. No surprises there.

http://m-romanoff.livejournal.com/34433.html

Pretty much sums it up:

[wi3dzmin]

Your sarcasm isn't necessary here.

If you're to lazy or dumb to understand it, leave it to those that aren't.

[Smokey McPole]

No comment on the Georgia thing except that I agree with whoever termed Putin an ex-KGB Psycho, just a few observations on a couple posts:

2) Interestingly this gives McCain an opportunity for saber rattling in front of his adoring not-so-informed fans

Does McCain even have any adoring fans? Let alone not-so-informed fans? Most people I know who are planning to vote for McCain would really much rather be voting for somebody else. If you're gonna bring up adoring, not-so-imformed fans you really have to look no further than the Obamazombies. "Chaaange...must have chaaaange..."

!!!?????!?!?!??
For reals? The things they don't know about in Summit County...

Summit's probably unfamiliar with The National Review for the same reason I'm not - because niether of us is an extreme hyper-partisan freakshow like you. Seriously - how many hours of the Rush Limbaugh show did you listen to today?

[summit]

kayaktheworld you seem to be big on claims of CIA conspiracy theories and very short on any real or verifiable facts to back up that claim... but let's just see if it stands up to logic:

OK... so all of our allies are distracted or entangled in other wars... 15% of our active forces are in Iraq... Russia just moved yet another heavy division to our border, another division bigger than our entire army, and we still aren't a NATO member. Cool... it's totally time to attack the Russian Army and massacre civilians! That will totally accomplish our goals of completing the BTC oil pipeline that the Russians don't want to see! So do we have a go?

This event looks like it is 100% scripted to accomplish Russian goals... and you seriously think that is CIA plan? I'll bet you believe the government blew up the WTC too... hell the WTC conspiracy theories make slightly more sense than your CIA claims here.

[Adolf Allerbush]

Your sarcasm isn't necessary here.

If you're to lazy or dumb to understand it, leave it to those that aren't.

What's with the insults homeboy? No sarcasm here.

[wi3dzmin]

A bit long but fun little piece.

http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-sou...-of-my-dreams/

[spindrift]

Is Voice of America a balanced enough source?

http://www.voanews.com/english/2008-08-11-voa63.cfm

[summit]

MOSCOW (AP) - Georgia's president says Russia's troops have effectively cut the country in half by seizing a strategic city that straddles the country's main east-west highway.

President Mikhail Saakashvili made the statement in a national security council meeting on Monday, about an hour after officials claimed Russian troops had captured Gori, about 60 miles west of the capital Tbilisi.

The news agency Interfax cited a Russian Defense Ministry official as denying the reports of the seizure.

But a top official at the Georgian embassy in Moscow, Givi Shugarov, said Russian troops appeared to be moving toward Tbilisi and he alleged Russia's goal was "complete liquidation" of the Georgian government.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

This is my attempt to illustrate the last few hours:

[Steven S. Dallas]

I think we should start calling it "Wargia," just to minimize the confusion.

[MTT]

Russa has planed and invaded a country that is very pro west and supposedly has the backing of the USA. Georgian troops were still in Iraq untill today.

Russia is betting the the US has no stmach to get into a military confilt with them over Georgia.

I say we have to call them on this. We have to at least try to help with Air Power.

I know it sounds awfull but this county put all their eggs in our basket. To me when Russia declired war on Georgia they declared War against The USA.

We have to react and treat it this way.

If nothing is done? Russia will have taken over a sovern country

[Adolf Allerbush]

A bit long but fun little piece.

http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-sou...-of-my-dreams/

Speaking of sarcasm give that thing a read.

[summit]

Just a very scary and chilling possibility to consider:



But it would conflict with this little problem:

Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk gestures as he speaks during a media conference on the hosting of a U.S. missile shield, in front of the Prime Minister Chancellery in Warsaw August 11, 2008. In July, Tusk rejected the latest U.S. offer to establish a missile shield in the country, saying Poland's security must be enhanced in return for hosting the shield, strongly opposed by Warsaw's former overlord Russia. Tusk said at the conference that this was even more the case in view of the fighting in South Ossetia between Russia and Georgia.

ie if Poland is going to have the ABM sites installed, we can't let Russia pound the crap out of them.

[Roo]

Just build some Tesla Coils and launch some of those airship things.

[The Reverend Floater]

If nothing is done? The USA will have taken over a sovern country

Rewind 5 years and your myopia is astounding. I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, just reminding you of our lack of moral high ground and political leverage, per Summit's point above.

[summit]

Uh... while I think going into Iraq was a bad idea for the US, Irarq wasn't what you would call a democratic government... there's a little difference here... and while Bush eventually went in with a coalition of countries after being unable to get the UN on his side, Russia didn't bother with allies or the UN at all. This situation is not comparable to Iraq. The mistake of Iraq only enters into the discussion as a Russian decision factor. Ie, the US is tied up in Iraq.

Protests in London


CNN reports that Russia had begun bombarding Georgia with SS-21 SRBMs (short ranged ballistic missiles).

[Smokey McPole]

Summit beat me to it.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Rev, really, gotta think it through before posting.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

I wonder where all the peaceful people are? You know, the anti-war marchers and stuff? Marching on the mall and looting in the streets and blaming everything on Bush. They're usually the first ones to pop out of the woodwork proclaiming their righteousness.

Must be they're too busy wringing their hands to hold signs right now.

[Adolf Allerbush]

I wonder where all the peaceful people are? You know, the anti-war marchers and stuff? Marching on the mall and looting in the streets and blaming everything on Bush. They're usually the first ones to pop out of the woodwork proclaiming their righteousness.

Must be they're too busy wringing their hands to hold signs right now.

Are you suggesting that the US invaded Georgia and therefore we should be marching on the mall and blaming this on Bush? Pretty sad that people are that misinformed.

If I understand the rev correctly he's merely saying that Iraq was a sovereign country before being invaded by the US much like Georgia in this circumstance.

[Cyber Cop]

Uh... while I think going into Iraq was a bad idea for the US, Irarq wasn't what you would call a democratic government... there's a little difference here... and while Bush eventually went in with a coalition of countries after being unable to get the UN on his side, Russia didn't bother with allies or the UN at all. This situation is not comparable to Iraq. The mistake of Iraq only enters into the discussion as a Russian decision factor. Ie, the US is tied up in Iraq.

according to summits logic...

feel free to invade the following countries...

Monarchies With More Than Symbolic Power (Royal Dictatorships)

This section includes all non-symbolic monarchies. In many, there are no elections of any kind. In others, there is elected legislative input, but substantial executive and/or judicial power resides in a hereditary leader or very small hereditarily determined oligarchy.

* Saudi Arabia
* Kuwait
* Jordan
* Morocco
* Bhutan
* Brunei
* United Arab Emirates
* Bahrain
* Oman
* Qatar
* Swaziland
* Nepal
* Malaysia

Theocracies

* Iran (Iran has functioning democratic institutions which are significantly constrained by religious leaders who have the authority to override most actions of the secular government and the free functioning of the electoral process).

Countries With One Party Governments

* Cameroon
* China
* Cuba
* North Korea
* Laos
* Vietnam
* Syria

Countries With Dictators

For these purposes dictators are described as leaders who hold power not won or subject to removal in periodic democratic elections, who are not in power by virtue in inherited position or the backing of a broad based single party system. Concrete steps putting these countries firmly on the path to multi-party democracy have not been taken.

* Central African Republic
* Congo (Kinshasa)
* Congo (Brazzaville)
* Equatorial Guinea
* Egypt
* Ethiopia
* Pakistan
* Myanmar (aka Burma)
* Kazakstan
* Libya
* Sudan
* Turkmenistan

[Smokey McPole]

Are you suggesting that the US invaded Georgia and therefore we should be marching on the mall and blaming this on Bush? Pretty sad that people are that misinformed.

If I understand the rev correctly he's merely saying that Iraq was a sovereign country before being invaded by the US much like Georgia in this circumstance.

C'mon, man - everybody knows that Bush is Hitler 2.0 and is far worse than Putin/Medvedev could evar hope to be.

[Smokey McPole]

according to summits logic...

feel free to invade the following countries...

Well, I guess if you only have half a brain it's not so bad that you only understood half of the post.

[summit]

according to summits logic...

feel free to invade the following countries...

Oh come on! Try to show a little more intellectual honesty than kayaktheworld. What part didn't you understand?

I think going into Iraq was a bad idea

Russia has taken the port of P'ot'i and now control an oil pipeline. The Russians will probably be in Tblisi by the weekend. Look for them to crush it like they did Grozny the second time around. It will be a bloodbath.

Russia still denies having taken Gori. The retreating line of Georgian troops on the Gori-Tblisi highway say otherwise. The Russia propoganda machine is in full swing and they are surpressing internet traffic out of Georgia. Expect information suppression when this comes to street fighting in Tblisi.

[The Reverend Floater]

MTT said soviergn, not democratic. And so then by your logic, Summit, we were okay to invade Iraq because they were not democratic? I guess it was cool since GW had his posse Anyhow, I don't want to cunt up this thread with an Iraq debate--I just wanted to raise the point that justification is often subject to perspective. I don't see how this is GW's fault except I wish our military wasn't stuck in a desert and I think this also raises yet another serious question regarding US intelligence, i.e. where the fuck is it?

[Theodore]

This pic pretty much sums up my thoughts on the situation. I feel like Russia is taking things further than they need to at this point, but Georgia did light the match.