Fuel Economy

[lemon boy]

Antisocal-

Agreed that diesel suffers from a big image problem. It is getting better all the time. Basically the new technology (turbo, direct injection) diesels are 1000% better than old gen models and people are starting to see that they're vastly superior to gassers in many ways.

If it makes you feel better my wife isn't too hot on diesel either although when we get a new car I think we can con her into one.

Telenater-

If you have the coin for what one of those will run just buy yourself a diesel sportsmobile.

[Big E]

Originally posted by AntiSoCalSkier
Hmmm, I wonder if it might be time for some sort of pro-diesel campaign.

Got Diesel?

I already have a "Got Diesel" t-shirt.

[Tippster]

Originally posted by lemon boy
...Telenater-

If you have the coin for what one of those will run just buy yourself a diesel sportsmobile.

http://www.sportsmobile.com/sections...n033_72dpi.jpg
http://www.sportsmobile.com/sections...n038_72dpi.jpg
http://www.sportsmobile.com/oldsite/...images/ph7.jpg
I Want one!! Oh wait.. I live in DC...

[Spats]

"The current EPA fuel economy test — established nearly 30 years ago — includes a highway mileage segment, in which vehicles average 48 miles per hour, reflecting the former national highway speed limit of 55 miles per hour."

Who drives on the highway at 48 MPG? Since air resistance has both a quadratic and a cubic component, "highway" mileage decreases noticeably as speeds increase. I personally get 27-28 MPG when going 45 MPG and 23-24 when going 75.

"Furthermore, the EPA’s current lab test is performed with a vehicle’s air conditioner turned off."

I can think of quite a few states where the air conditioner is never turned off.

[Cosmic Bandito]

Hydrogen-powered Hummer and Shelby Cobra. Who needs the hybrids? Sheboy!

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Co...s_hlg_730a.jpg

[TJ.Brk]

Well I worked in a GM plant for about 6 months in 85 when the gas was about $1.20 a gallon. You could buy the bigger sedans, and trucks for cheap, because people were buying the little jap cars with better gas milage. All the suden the big three came out with cars like the Escort, Citation, Sudance, Kcars.

Right now you are seeing great deals on the big SUV's because people aren't buying them because of the price of gas.

I got me a Vibe that is basically a Toyota. Thank God I did. Because it costs about $3.50CAD for a gallon of gas here. That's $2.70USD My car gets great milage, and I'm riding the bike more to save money.

[Telenater]

Originally posted by lemon boy
Telenater-

If you have the coin for what one of those will run just buy yourself a diesel sportsmobile.

Yeah, I know, but the multivan would still get much better milage. However, a sportsmobile is my dream vehicle.

[lemon boy]

Sportsmobile should be able to get 15-20 pretty easily (depending on your driving habits). I don't think that the VW is gonna be that much better.

[Greydon Clark]

If you think it is hard to find diesel... well, you're a retard.

[Mcwop]

Originally posted by Spats
"The current EPA fuel economy test — established nearly 30 years ago — includes a highway mileage segment, in which vehicles average 48 miles per hour, reflecting the former national highway speed limit of 55 miles per hour."

Who drives on the highway at 48 MPG? Since air resistance has both a quadratic and a cubic component, "highway" mileage decreases noticeably as speeds increase. I personally get 27-28 MPG when going 45 MPG and 23-24 when going 75.

"Furthermore, the EPA’s current lab test is performed with a vehicle’s air conditioner turned off."

I can think of quite a few states where the air conditioner is never turned off.

My WRX can't go 48 - its just not happy at that speed.

[The AD]

Originally posted by TJ.Brk
because people were buying the little jap cars

Bill Parcells in the house!

[DougW]

Originally posted by Spats
[B Since air resistance has both a quadratic and a cubic component, "highway" mileage decreases noticeably as speeds increase. [/B]

Don't think so. drag is a function of the square of velocity. Most cars are most efficient at 90km/h or 55mph where the power lost to drag is equal to the running power ( power required to move but not dependent on speed). Why that is the case I do not know.

Using that logic going 75 mph should take you 43% more gas than going 55.

[The AD]

Originally posted by DougW
Don't think so. drag is a function of the square of velocity. Most cars are most efficient at 90km/h or 55mph where the power lost to drag is equal to the running power ( power required to move but not dependent on speed). Why that is the case I do not know.

Using that logic going 75 mph should take you 43% more gas than going 55.

A car that is not accelerating or decelerating will require exactly as much power from the engine as the combined force of drag (wind resistance) and friction between the tires and road (which I imagine is pretty negligible compared to air resistance). This holds true whether you're going 10 mph or 100 mph.

[DougW]

Originally posted by The AD
A car that is not accelerating or decelerating will require exactly as much power from the engine as the combined force of drag (wind resistance) and friction between the tires and road (which I imagine is pretty negligible compared to air resistance). This holds true whether you're going 10 mph or 100 mph.

True if not increasing or decreasing speed then kinetic energy same so just over coming friction to keep at same speed. But I'm pretty sure non drag friction is significant or why is the best efficienty point at 55 mph. I just remember a Mech Eng prof saying that the best eff point was where the two frictions were equal.

[SLCFreshies]

I would love it if European car manufacturers exported more diesel cars to the US. Almost a majority, if not a majority of new cars sold in the UK are diesel. And why not? Great gas mileage, good passing acceleration, and oodles of torque. That's one of the big reasons that hybrids aren't making a big buzz there--their mileage is not much better that the diesels Europeans can already buy.

I kinda pisses me off that NO car company offers good diesel cars here. I mean one of the most well regarded diesel engines for sale now is made by Ford (the TDCi) that they offer in the Focus and the Mondeo. Why can't we get it here? Frustrating.

One of the problems with diesel is that it generates much more sulfuric acid that causes acid rain. In Europe, they have low-sulfur diesel, but we don't have it here yet. Not sure why we're not switching to that either.

One more thing...the main reason that hybrids get much better mileage on the EPA test than in real life is because the EPA test involves stopping the car for a long periods of time so as to mimic bad traffic. Since hybrids shut off their engines automatically when stopped, their EPA mileages tend to be artificially inflated.

The car companies always bitch and moan how the cost necessary to make more fuel efficient cars is prohibitive. Yet, most of these same companies turn around and offer more fuel efficient cars to the rest of the world. I guess our air isn't worth keeping clean.

[Telenater]

Originally posted by lemon boy
Sportsmobile should be able to get 15-20 pretty easily (depending on your driving habits). I don't think that the VW is gonna be that much better.

Telepath mentioned at one point knowing people who got around 35mpg with them out in Yrp. (I may be remembering incorrectly however)

[DJSapp]

Originally posted by SLCFreshies
In Europe, they have low-sulfur diesel, but we don't have it here yet. Not sure why we're not switching to that either.

The car companies always bitch and moan how the cost necessary to make more fuel efficient cars is prohibitive. Yet, most of these same companies turn around and offer more fuel efficient cars to the rest of the world. I guess our air isn't worth keeping clean.

There is a incredable amount of truth in both of these statements, and it will lead you to the true feelings of both the US governement and the US auto industry.

[Snow Dog]

Originally posted by SLCFreshies
I would love it if European car manufacturers exported more diesel cars to the US. Almost a majority, if not a majority of new cars sold in the UK are diesel. And why not? Great gas mileage, good passing acceleration, and oodles of torque. That's one of the big reasons that hybrids aren't making a big buzz there--their mileage is not much better that the diesels Europeans can already buy.

I kinda pisses me off that NO car company offers good diesel cars here. I mean one of the most well regarded diesel engines for sale now is made by Ford (the TDCi) that they offer in the Focus and the Mondeo. Why can't we get it here? Frustrating.

One of the problems with diesel is that it generates much more sulfuric acid that causes acid rain. In Europe, they have low-sulfur diesel, but we don't have it here yet. Not sure why we're not switching to that either.

One more thing...the main reason that hybrids get much better mileage on the EPA test than in real life is because the EPA test involves stopping the car for a long periods of time so as to mimic bad traffic. Since hybrids shut off their engines automatically when stopped, their EPA mileages tend to be artificially inflated.

The car companies always bitch and moan how the cost necessary to make more fuel efficient cars is prohibitive. Yet, most of these same companies turn around and offer more fuel efficient cars to the rest of the world. I guess our air isn't worth keeping clean.

It's not just sulphur. In Europe the emission standards are different for diesel and gas cars. They've traded some emissions for better fuel economy. In the US the standards are the same. Meeting the emission standards with diesels in the US adds more cost than people will pay.

[shmerham]

Straight from the EPA:

Audi A4 Quattro
4 cyl, 1.8 L, Lock-up(5), Premium 18 (city) 27 (highway)


I drive 75 mph on the highway, accelerate quickly, don't make hard stops though (try to coast into stoplights), run the AC and a 250 watt stereo amp. Since my last tune up I almost always get 29 or 30 mpg.

If gas prices started getting high enough for me to look for a car I still wouldn't buy a hybrid. They haven't gotten good enough yet, imho. Not when you can get a 4 door Civic that gets over 40 mpg and will be inexpensive to fix.

It's funny that you talk to so many people that love German and Japanese cars and you wonder why the American automakers don't follow suit. The fact of the matter is a) it might be a lot, but of the population of car buyers, it's still small; and b) It would take a lot to get enthusiasts to pull away from foreign cars and go to domestic. It's probably not cost-effective to make that effort.

[bad_roo]

This is the sort of technology you're missing out on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/119000...deo-ap-300.jpg

...say hello to the latest in what’s turning out to be a long line of performance Mondeos, the ST 155PS 2.2-litre TDCi. It’s a smart move by Ford. Many of their rivals have no answer to the sort of turbocharged muscle this engine can generate and are a good couple of years behind Ford in their quest to develop such a diesel powerplant. Ford UK’s most powerful passenger car diesel engine to date is genuinely something to behold, cranking out some 400Nm of torque from just 1,800rpm. This means that at little more than tickover, this Mondeo has more urge to call upon than the peak figure generated by a Ferrari 360 Modena or a BMW M3 GT. That’s heavy duty firepower by any standards.

In-gear performance is predictably rapid. Thus equipped, the Mondeo makes short work of overtaking manoeuvres, giving the driver a reassuring safety net. With a combined fuel economy figure of 46.3mpg, it’s cost effective too. On an open road, it will return figures closer to 58mpg while the C02 emissions figure quoted is 151g/km. Let’s think about that for a second. You’re getting a car that can seat five comfortably and which develops more torque than a Ferrari yet is cleaner and returns better fuel economy than a 1.0-litre Daewoo Matiz. Now you begin to appreciate the scale of Ford’s achievement.

[iceman]

It's a crime that you can't buy that here.

btw, do we know the writer?

[bad_roo]

Originally posted by iceman
btw, do we know the writer?

Scramble! Radar stations at RAF St Athan have detected an incoming grammar lesson.

[iceman]

nah, just curious.

[bad_roo]

That Mondeo is an excellent product. I got to have a look at one at their Lommel test track and it's genuinely accomplished. Drive it like your pants are on fire and you'll still get about 24mpg from it. A 4x4 estate version would really do the business.

[half-fast]

"Furthermore, the EPA’s current lab test is performed with a vehicle’s air conditioner turned off."

I've read that running your air conditioner with your windows closed (at highway speeds) is pretty much a wash as far as fuel efficiency with ac off and windows open.