All going wrong for a small ski-maker?

[Mulletizer]

NB - This post is not meant to refer to or cast aspertions on any small ski-makers but the one mentioned. I am as stoked as anyone about PMGear's skis and have confidence in their ability to keep a great show on the road. This is just posted as interesting.

Apparently (according to this article on Pistehors) there is all sorts of shit going on with Bumtribe skis. Sounds pretty unpleasant.

I was impressed that those guys (none of whom I know) got together a ski company and produced some skis although I found the whole "Bumtribe" image thing pretty nauseating. Sounds as if the ride could be over already, especially as Duret (who made their skis) are apparently bankrupt. Again.

Swell Panik are no longer operating in the same way either. No more custom boards as far as I know, just a limited stock just ebing sold by one (pretty lame IMO) shop. After the big fuss about boutique ski makers it seems a load of them are struggling (Boheme too) and that when one key person walks things can fall apart. It's a shame for skiers and the industry. I am hoping these are just blips and not a trend. DB seem to be bucking it if it is a trend...

Not sure where I am going with his post. Just thought I would post a link to an interesting article really.

[Snow Dog]

What have we learned? First, making a product for a market -- ski bums -- with no money is a bad idea. Secondly, friends who are business noobies shouldn't form a business together.

Why is PMGear different? There's a lot of business experience in the collective. There's a good mix of young and naiive (they work hard for no money) and less-young and experienced (to provide wisdom and guidance). And professionals (with money) who rip is a better market than bums (with no money) who rip.

[Ski Monkey]

Originally posted by Mulletizer
Swell Panik are no longer operating in the same way either. No more custom boards as far as I know, just a limited stock just ebing sold by one (pretty lame IMO) shop. After the big fuss about boutique ski makers it seems a load of them are struggling (Boheme too) and that when one key person walks things can fall apart. It's a shame for skiers and the industry. I am hoping these are just blips and not a trend. DB seem to be bucking it if it is a trend...

It seems like they fit the trend of having a poorly formed and executed company failing. Not sure about it being a trend in the ski industry, I don't know enough about it.

[mr_gyptian]

What happened to Lacroix?

[Endlessseason]

Check out these household income figures: http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=3






_______________________________
"Indulgences sold separately."

[Mulletizer]

Originally posted by Ski Monkey
It seems like they fit the trend of having a poorly formed and executed company failing. Not sure about it being a trend in the ski industry, I don't know enough about it.

I don't have any inside info about any of these companies but I have my suspicions that you could be on the right track. I guess it is pretty easy to get carried away with making a product you are really into and forget about business stuff like margins, unit costs, partnership stuff etc. That's speculation though. I know in the case of Boheme that a very expensively-priced product that broke way too easily has a lot to do with their supposed problems.

Not too sure what the deal is with Swell. I heard that Kafi wanted to spend more time on the water so is making fewer boards. Don't know him personally but that's what I heard. Guess with a one-man show that'll lead to fewer boards being made.

Mr G: The Lacroix brand was sold in the 70s (I think) and went bankrupt in the 1980s or 90s. The name is now family-owned by the Lacroix clan. They are making some funky looking wooden skis. Not sure how they perform or sell. Have never seen them in the Alps.

Snow Dog: I am not sure Bumtribe were trying to sell to bums, the people behind the company just were bums. We'll see if it all gets really messy between them now and whether they manage to make any skis...

Just to reiterate - I don't intend this thread to be about PMgear or their products. My comments are not meant to relate to them directly or indirectly. I just saw an article that sounded too interesting to leave alone. [/attempt to defuse a potential shit storm before it starts]

[Snow Dog]

Originally posted by Mulletizer
Snow Dog: I am not sure Bumtribe were trying to sell to bums, the people behind the company just were bums. We'll see if it all gets really messy between them now and whether they manage to make any skis...

With a name like "Bumtribe" who else are you selling to? It has an anti-establishment ring to it which works with the teenage snowboard crowd but misses the mark with the ski crowd.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Originally posted by Mulletizer


Just to reiterate - I don't intend this thread to be about PMgear or their products. My comments are not meant to relate to them directly or indirectly. I just saw an article that sounded too interesting to leave alone. [/attempt to defuse a potential shit storm before it starts]

hey no worries Mulletizer...thanks for posting the link. Interesting news to say the least.....although unfortunate.

edit: oh yeah, and this has always been one of my fav photos...take from the www.bumtribe.com photo gallery:

http://www.bumtribeskis.info/riders_...%20heliski.jpg

[lph]

mulletizer,

actually interesting stuff, don't apologize about your link or thread, we at PMGEAR understand the reality of what we have entered into and invested into to.

PMGEAR 'hopes' to be successful with a limited run of skis. However, I do not think we can 'expect' to be a success. The history of small ski companies, as you note, is not on our side.
With any luck our limited run will be a success and will drive more people to our website. With some of splat's and twoplanker's hard work we will get more products on our website that will increase our sales and allow us to undertake more ventures like the Bromodel ski, we were are the OEM, and get to make what we and you guys and girls WANT, not what some large company dictates what we want. I think that is the goal of most if not all of these small ski companies.

I think you have to enter into a small ski company venture with lo expectations and hi hopes.

That being said, if you ski our skis at hood or hear some stellar reviews from those at hood who get to ski them..............then please for the love of god, BUY OUR SKIS!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

yeah...as lph touched on a little above...PMG's business model is pretty different than most other small-ski manufacturers, in that there's a plan for revenue generation outside of the skis themselves...so it's not completely all-or-nothing with the skis (well, sort of )

[Schmear]

Originally posted by lph
PMGEAR 'hopes' to be successful with a limited run of skis.

I remember the first season that Salomon sold skis. They intentionally underproduced in order to drive up demand for the following season. Granted Salomon was a known entity, and this was the beginning of the cap-ski revolutiuon, but can you say instant success?

PM Gear seems to be taking a level-headed approach to the biz. I myself am looking hard as those pretty blue top sheets....

[splat]

After having met one of the main guys from Bumtribe at ispo in Munich (Natty, weren't you with me?), this doesn't surprise me.
The guy was pretty out there and off the wall, turning us off instantly. I can't say his personality translated into business failure, but he extinguished any further discussions on our part by the way he acted.

edit: Schmear - how long ago was that? You must be decades older than you look (lke me)?

[natty dread]

Originally posted by splat
After having met one of the main guys from Bumtribe at ispo in Munich (Natty, weren't you with me?), this doesn't surprise me.
The guy was pretty out there and off the wall, turning us off instantly. I can't say his personality translated into business failure, but he extinguished any further discussions on our part by the way he acted.

edit: Schmear - how long ago was that? You must be decades older than you look (lke me)?

Yeah Pat, we met him in Munich last year. He just wasn't very open or friendly and got all Bro/Brah/cooler-than-thou with us. We were seriously thinking about selling his skis, but after one conversation, we realized we didn't want to work with him. Too bad BT is in trouble, they actually seemed like good skis.

[Schmear]

Heh. This was around 1989-90. I was in college and working in a shop outside of Seattle. And yes, from what I hear I can still pass for a high-schooler....

[Mulletizer]

What you say is pretty funny, Splat and Natty. Having never met the guys who run Bumtribe that is exactly how I would have expected them to be. Guess it must show on their website and in their spancered skiers or something. Think it could prolly partly be a "Valley" thing too. My experiences with Chamonix are pretty limited but I have found the bro-brah, you're not worthy attitude to be 100X stronger there than anywhere else. Not cool...

Actually got a similar attitude when I met the Zag guys. Bunch of twats I thought. On the other hand I heard Messrs D and B are about as sound as they come. At least it's not all bad.

Hopefully no one will go to the wall though. More choice is always good, even if all those skis are way expensive.

[Idris]

Unfortunatly Splat my experience with Bumtribe are somwhat similar.......nice skis, OK only a few miles of test, but skied somwhere between the V explosive and a Powder Plus, but getting any info out of them was like geting blood out of a stone, they were supposed to be made somwher in the vallon verte (between the PDS and Geneva)....freinds who orderd skis said they took months longer than promised to turn up