Bush's covert war in Iran

**panchosdad** · 07-01-2008, 09:44 AM

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...7fa_fact_hersh

Scary Article in the new New Yorker. Even worse is that he got approval from the Congressional leadership.

**Tuckerman** · 07-01-2008, 09:51 AM

I'm shocked........

**ass-to-mouth** · 07-01-2008, 09:56 AM

the democratic leadership is even more pathetic then bush.

**nick > jesus** · 07-01-2008, 09:58 AM

damn, long article.

interesting, not surprising though.

while i can see the justification for covert ops in iran, i dont think that it is in the interest of stabilizing the region. But i guess that is not really the goal.

**tarkman1** · 07-01-2008, 10:13 AM

It seems to me the US track record of successful covert operations isn't great. If we think the US policy in Iraq was a debacle, any attack on Iran would be a mistake of an order of magnitude greater in idiocy. Given our Commander-In-Chief, it's a mistake that he is capable of making in our behalf.

Geez, look at the geography of Iran. It may be easy to hit once by surprise. After that, it's pretty tough.

**panchosdad** · 07-01-2008, 10:26 AM

I heard Hersh on Fresh Air yesterday. His speculation was that Bush/Chaney will be more likely to go to war with Iran if it looks like Obama will be the next president. They think McCain will keep the regime change policy intact.

**freezorburn** · 07-01-2008, 10:29 AM

"President, Barack Obama, has said that he favors direct talks and diplomacy."

This is the guy so many of you are voteing for? he favors "Diplomacy" aka Spinning your wheels doing nothing about the situation. You may as well just bury your head in th sand.

Your all intelligent people how the fuck do you think Diplomacy is going to work with that nut case?

**PassTheDutchie** · 07-01-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by freezorburn

"President, Barack Obama, has said that he favors direct talks and diplomacy."

This is the guy so many of you are voteing for? he favors "Diplomacy" aka Spinning your wheels doing nothing about the situation. You may as well just bury your head in th sand.

Your all intelligent people how the fuck do you think Diplomacy is going to work with that nut case?

**summit** · 07-01-2008, 10:37 AM

Not that I usually agree with Freezorburn's posts... but exactly what has the EU and UN gotten out of Iran in the past SEVEN YEARS OF DIPLOMACY? I'll tell you: Jack and Shit... and the Ayatollas had Jack beheaded so what does that leave you with?

Libya is a great example of reaction to US military force. That is what spurred on that bit of diplomacy. They saw what happened to Afghanistan and what was about to happen to Iraq. Libya isn't a powerful country like North Korea. The US wasn't overextended then as it was now. It is likely Qudafi would have given us the finger today.

North Korea does not even begin to compare to any other country on the planet. They are that different. Anyone who imagines there is productive diplomacy going on with NK is kidding themselves. There simply isn't a better solution to NK than to pay the blackmail. KJI's strategy is exactly what it always has been:

1. Build weapons
2. Rattle Saber
3. Demand the West prop up their regime in exchange for disarming
4. Pretend to abandon weapons program
5. Rinse, lather, repeat

The US can't possibly be planning a big ole ground invasion of Iran... so covert operations to foment revolution would be a nice alternative to air strikes or worst of all, a nuclear Iran.

**Core Shot** · 07-01-2008, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by panchosdad

[url]. Even worse is that he got approval from the Congressional leadership.

Obama will CHANGE all of that, right???

**Thrill Hammer** · 07-01-2008, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by freezorburn

Your all intelligent people how the fuck do you think Diplomacy is going to work with that nut case?

What nut case? Imadinnerjacket? He's got as much to do with running Iran as I do. He's a figurehead, makes 0% of the decisions, a lot like Dubya in that regard.

**mrw** · 07-01-2008, 11:37 AM

A nuclear Iran, scary but inevitable. All of these oil producing nations see the handwriting on the wall. Sooner than later, a nuclear middle east will happen. The problem is putting that kind of power in the hands of nutjobs. I think the world would be better served by a world commision on nuclear power with inspection authority and investigative powers. Just a thought

**PassTheDutchie** · 07-01-2008, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by mrw

I think the world would be better served by a world commision on nuclear power with inspection authority and investigative powers. Just a thought

You mean like the International Atomic Energy Agency?

**mrw** · 07-01-2008, 11:56 AM

^^^^^^^

something a bit stronger with weight behind it

**tarkman1** · 07-01-2008, 12:09 PM

Attack Iran and accomplish what?

For those who seem to favor military action against Iraq, who has actually worn a uniform?

I did for nine years as a Navy pilot. I take it personally when I think military action is being taken as the first and only option.

Diplomacy may not work. Bypassing or even not considering diplomacy is a mistake. Really, the US cannot handle a sustained unilateral military campaign in Iran. Where will the assets come from? Abandon the status quo in Afghanistan. Abandon status quo in Iraq.

If Bush wants to go down as the worst President in American History, he can go ahead and take overt military action against Iran without provoking Iran to strike first.

How did the US defeat its biggest adversary? Time. That was the Soviet Union.

**Benny Profane** · 07-01-2008, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by nick > jesus

damn, long article.

The Cliff Notes version: http://www.npr.org/templates/rundown...view=storyview

**Woodsy** · 07-01-2008, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by freezorburn

This is the guy so many of you are voteing for? he favors "Diplomacy" aka Spinning your wheels doing nothing about the situation. You may as well just bury your head in th sand.

Spinning your wheels and doing notheing has been our response to the deadliest attack on the US in our lifetime.
listen to the operatives who are still frustrated that their incursions into Pakistan to actually go after the guy 7 group that attacked us are being thwarted by our preocupation with Iraq & Iran and the Democratization of the middle East.

At least Barack wants to go after the people who actually attacked us and put his head on a fucking pike instead of wasting trasure 7 blood in a country that is not a direct threat.

We contained a super power with nuclear weapons, you think we cannot contain a rogue state?

and dont play the "they will gve the technolog y to terrorists " card, pakastanis are already doing that.

Badgerman · 07-01-2008, 12:38 PM

If we would FORCE Israel to deal with the Palestinians in an equitable fashion, we could align ourselves favourably with what will be the most powerful group in the world....Islam.
Until then it will remain a mess in the mideast.

**Woodsy** · 07-01-2008, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Badgerman

If we would FORCE Israel to deal with the Palestinians in an equitable fashion, we could align ourselves favourably with what will be the most powerful group in the world....Islam.
Until then it will remain a mess in the mideast.

Ahh yes that unified Islamic front
I forgot about that homogenous group of folks.....

**Thrill Hammer** · 07-01-2008, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Badgerman

If we would FORCE Israel to deal with the Palestinians in an equitable fashion, we could align ourselves favourably with what will be the most powerful group in the world....Islam.
Until then it will remain a mess in the mideast.

Hey hey now, that's enough of that crazy talk. Just because we enable and fund and cheerlead for a 35 year old bloody illegal occupation does NOT mean we have any say so about when it ends. None.

**Toadman** · 07-01-2008, 02:19 PM

Just more fuel on the fire. Cheney's stoking the flames nicely. Got a nice fire going. Just a matter of time before he's roasting marshmellows...

**sftc** · 07-01-2008, 02:33 PM

I know a special forces guy who speaks a bit of one of the Iranian dialects and he dropped off the radar a couple of months ago. Now I guess I know where he is...

Badgerman · 07-01-2008, 02:46 PM

Here we go again.

can we all spell "blowback"?

let's enrage all the wackos some more by invading Iran.
What if Russia and China decide to take an active role in defending an ally?

**Nathan Explosion** · 07-01-2008, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Badgerman

If we would FORCE Israel to deal with the Palestinians in an equitable fashion, we could align ourselves favourably with what will be the most powerful group in the world....Islam.
Until then it will remain a mess in the mideast.

Listen, hoss, you just permanently disqualified yourself from further political discussion, because this shit is just laughable.

**freezorburn** · 07-01-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsy

At least Barack wants to go after the people who actually attacked us and put his head on a fucking pike instead of wasting trasure 7 blood in a country that is not a direct threat.

Maybe your right, But I think Iran is a big threat and terrorist are in Iran planning attacks against the US anyway.

A Nuc in the Hands of those fuck'in middle east religous wacko's is a scary thought. They will line up to blow themselfs up with as many innocent infedel women and children they can. Killing the innocent in the name of god.

No matter who wins the election the Middle east will stay a clusterfuck, Obama is more peaseful, Mc cain is more brutal. Unfortunatly History has proven Brute force gets quicker results. There may be no other way.

I realy hope we will never see a Nuc Explosion.