Will someone please give me a logical explination

[easyrdr]

I love my 3/4 ton truck and will continue to run it, at a $120 a tank it would be silly to get rid of it and as of recently I have also found a love for my $8 thrift store road bike-JC Penny Speedracer Addition-seriously that is what is printed on the bike and it's banana yellow.......who wants to touch me.

[TDJ]

wtf are you complaining about.. we pay $9/gallon in the Netherlands..

[GoNads]

No offence, but buying a 3/4 ton truck in times like these lacks both a finger on the here-and-now pulse and foresight for the obvious days ahead. Follow Brkln's advise.

Or better yet, I'd be selling the big truck soon, or else its depreciation through oversupply of second hand vehicles flooding the sellers pages of the newspaper will be rather nasty, all on top of 4.50 a gallon. Cant find a buyer for it, cant afford to fill it. Let it rust. A common scenario after a boom. You see evidence of it all over the place in Japan: bubble times... massive excess... bubble bursts... huge over capacity that's too expensive to maintain/no customers... infrastructure cant be sold off because no one afford to run it. So it rusts. That's why I can buy a massive 20 bedroom hotel in my town on a 1 acre block for... $200,000. It is relatively worthless because its the left over capacity from an excessive bubble. Like 3/4 ton trucks will be (when owned for leisure or amusement)

Phillipe's data should make you go pale (or start a big war) and Roo's comparative assessment is right on the mark. $4 is still well below equilibrium.

Its not just happening in America, but America will feel it the most. And the pain from filling yer tank will be small relative to the pain at the supermarket checkout (and housing slump + credit squeeze + stagflation + dying USD). Sorry be so negative.

Whilst everyone was bubbling on about Global Climate Change, they forgot about Peak Oil. Its fucking horrendously scary.

I'd like to see what kind of payload you get with anything less than a 3/4 ton. Like I've said before, hate on trucks, snowmobiling etc. I do walk, bike most places, and I carpool to most comp sites, but seriously... I'm not ready to give up snowmobiling and jump on the granola bandwagon. As far as I'm concerned flying, china using coal as their primary source of electricity and cow shit is way more concerning than my truck which I happen to use for work. Please, tell me... where am I going to put my sled, my roomates sled, 6 people and months worth of gear in a "fuel efficient" mid sized sedan?

Gas prices do NOT need to be this high. Check the profit margins for large petrol companies. Alberta for example is doing MORE than fine... with their primary source of income coming from petrol products. Hello surplus.

[neck beard]

You gotta do what you gotta do. If its sled, then go for it.

As for gas prices, it will turn into a bubble through speculation and yes that will drag prices higher than fundamentals dictate. But for the moment its reasonably situation normal. Prices seem fair to me.

I'd expect oil companies to be making mega bucks. After all, they are selling the most valuable commodity on Earth to an ever increasing customer base. Good work if you can get it.

[Nathan Explosion]

Consider this: it costs money to find new oil, and we're not doing it here. In the last 5 years, BP America has reinvested $31.5 billion from profits into exploration and production, however such exploration and production is so limited in this nation that many of those profit dollars made in the US are being spent elsewhere.

[GoNads]

awww, poor you all, gas is expensive.. go buy even bigger trucks and see if that changes the situation.

Thank you for your highly informative contribution to this thread. You remind me of the mural on the ceiling from one of the sled cabins up the duffy. "Die MEC-y die!"

I have my priorities in life, you have yours. I hope I you can fit all your skis, bikes, sled, camping gear, and the rest of the toys in your smart car. Oh yeah, and the rest of your family/roomates/friends too. Even if my mileage is 20% worse than yours I can still carry 6 passengers AND all their gear.

We crammed 6 people into my friends truck for the canadian bit mtn champs this year, and spent all of 40$ in gas each going 1500km and we didn't flip the ride like others in smaller, more "fuel efficient" vehicles. Let us not forget that most ski resorts are in MOUNTAINOUS ranges with WINTER conditions.


Point being, you chose to spend your money on your white picket fence, I chose to spend mine on my skiing 'career', which just so happens to involve lots of driving (30,000km this winter) in hazardous conditions (4/5 people in my house were in flipped vehicles in the last year en route to comps)

Gas prices have almost tripled. Yes, consumption has also gone up but I HIGHLY doubt it has tripled in the last 10 years.


The Athabasca Oil Sands are a large deposit of oil-rich bitumen, or extremely heavy crude oil, located in northern Alberta, Canada. Together, these oil sand deposits cover about 141,000 square kilometres (54,000 sq mi) of sparsely populated boreal forest and muskeg (peat bogs) and contain about 1.7 trillion barrels (270×109 m3) of bitumen in-place, comparable in magnitude to the world's proven reserves of conventional petroleum.

With current technology about 10% of these deposits, or about 170 billion barrels (27×109 m3) are considered to be economically recoverable at current prices, giving Canada oil reserves second in the world only to Saudi Arabia. The Athabasca deposit is the only large oil sands reservoir which is suitable for surface mining.


...at current extraction and with projected consumption rates this reserve is estimated to last 170 years.

I can understand a slow and steady increase that goes up with inflation or demand, but using 9-11, Iraq and Katrina as excuses to jack the price astronomically doesn't make sense.

I'm willing to pay more to play harder, as long as its justified. Oil companies are racking in RECORD profits, I love how most people on here are so quick to jump on the "its your fault, get a hybrid" bandwagon. Might as well stop eating red meat, did you know cow shit is even worse than my sled?

[neck beard]

Its Gods way of telling you that unfortunately your chosen devotion requires too much driving. He's a cunt like that.

[hemas]

I can understand a slow and steady increase that goes up with inflation or demand, but using 9-11, Iraq and Katrina as excuses to jack the price astronomically doesn't make sense.

9-11, Iraq and Katrina haev little to do with gas price... It has risen steadily outside the NA as well. It's mostly just about demand, do you realize that gas demand in China has increased quite a bit lately... And that they also like big cars. What drives the prices up, is also the fact that all estimates clearly state that demand in India and China will continue to rise steadily if not infact exponentianally...

I'm willing to pay more to play harder, as long as its justified. Oil companies are racking in RECORD profits

Funnily enough, I seem to recall that in fact oil comps ain't racking that big profits when compared to other industry fields.

[GoNads]

9-11, Iraq and Katrina haev little to do with gas price... It has risen steadily outside the NA as well. It's mostly just about demand, do you realize that gas demand in China has increased quite a bit lately... And that they also like big cars. What drives the prices up, is also the fact that all estimates clearly state that demand in India and China will continue to rise steadily if not infact exponentianally...



Funnily enough, I seem to recall that in fact oil comps ain't racking that big profits when compared to other industry fields.

"Funnily enough" I can remember quite clearly oil prices soaring .20 or more RIGHT after 9-11 and Katrina.

I also stated in above posts that yes, demand in China, India is rising, but I highly doubt that is enough to cause a doubling in gas prices in the last 10 years. I could understand a steady increase, but hell, how the fuck does gas go from .70/L to 1.40/L in ten years? Are you trying to tell me that oil consumption world wide has DOUBLED? Not going to lie, I don't know the figures but I'd be willing to bet that it can't be anymore than 20% increase. How the fuck would that result in prices doubling?

As for oil comps "aint racking that big profits" I seem to remember alberta giving back 400$ to every man woman and child due to unexpectedly high oil revenues in 2005. Think profits, think BILLIONS.

[philippeR]

Hum, GoNads, we have MOUNTAINOUS ranges with WINTER conditions in yurp too. And pro skiers.
We don't have 6 liters trucks.
How do we do ?

Your life choices involve the burning of huge amount of oil. More power to you.
But stop blaming the hippies or the oil companies or both for the financial conscequences of your lifestyle.

Just keep in mind that, sooner or later, every chinese will want his own 3/4 ton chevy too.

[Hugh Conway]

I have my priorities in life, you have yours. I hope I you can fit all your skis, bikes, sled, camping gear, and the rest of the toys in your smart car. Oh yeah, and the rest of your family/roomates/friends too. Even if my mileage is 20% worse than yours I can still carry 6 passengers AND all their gear.

I believe keksie and 4 others have ridden in a golf wagon with all of their gear

[stantonbum1]

hope I you can fit all your skis, bikes, sled, camping gear, and the rest of the toys in your smart car.

Most of his gear and friends seem to fit in fine on the train or bus to go skiing.

[neck beard]

>"Funnily enough" I can remember quite clearly oil prices soaring .20 or more RIGHT after 9-11 and Katrina.

Futures trading. A hedger or speculator see a hurricane hit the oil producing gulf, or a oil producing nation get bombed.... and understandably assume that supply will be limited for the short term at least. So they buy, thus pushing up price. Its perfectly normal immediately after such an event. Orange Juice prices go up if yo get a freeze in CA as well.

Long term, hurricanes etc have little impact on price, that's what Hemas was saying.

I hate to break it to you, but $4 a gallon is based on oil prices a few weeks ago. They have increased a shit load since then. Fill up now because its going higher.

[stantonbum1]

I think Katrina did have an effect on prices because of various production facilities in the gulf of mexico that were affected by the storm

[hemas]

demand in China, India is rising, but I highly doubt that is enough to cause a doubling in gas prices in the last 10 years. I could understand a steady increase, but hell, how the fuck does gas go from .70/L to 1.40/L in ten years?

Hmm. this should give ya a good read... http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainp...nsumption.html

Chinas gas consumption has more than doubled during the last 10 years or so...

[bklyn]

Outside NA people manage to cope with high oil prices with fuel efficient vehicles. There are hundreds of motorcycles and scooters minis and smartcars at every intersection.

I'm not saying give up the truck, we all need to recognize that it's a special occasion vehicle now. It's going to take GoNads and her crew to the comps and Gunder to his photo shoots and this lifestyle will work as long as it isn't the go to car for everyday driving.

And motorcycles are fun.

[stantonbum1]

Chinas gas consumption has more than doubled during the last 10 years or so...

Nuke the chinese?

[hemas]

I believe keksie and 4 others have ridden in a golf wagon with all of their gear

Impossible....

I know for a fact that one can't drive an old Peugeot 206 (or was it even a 205) with 4 adults for 3200 km one way, with their ski gear and rest of the crap peeps need to live in the alps for 3 months... Can't be done.

[GoNads]

Hmm. this should give ya a good read... http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainp...nsumption.html

Chinas gas consumption has more than doubled during the last 10 years or so...

World consumption doubling would result in world oil prices doubling. China doubling should not result in the world wide price doubling. It should go up percentage wise in relation in consumption growth.

[Nathan Explosion]

And motorcycles are fun.

Yes, they are.

[hemas]

World consumption doubling would result in world oil prices doubling. China doubling should not result in the world wide price doubling. It should go up percentage wise in relation in consumption growth.

But gas price is not based on todays figures but futures, and the extensive growth of the middle class in China as well as numerous other countries is what's driving the prices up.

BTW. this article written 4 years ago, gives a pretty good idea on why prices are what they are...
http://www.frost.com/prod/servlet/ma...docid=22930877

And nope, you still ain't paying enough for your gas... So suck it up Princess, you've picked an expensive hobby(/ies) and now you gotta pay the price.

[neck beard]

World consumption doubling would result in world oil prices doubling. China doubling should not result in the world wide price doubling. It should go up percentage wise in relation in consumption growth.

At the same time as demand increased, supply stopped increasing at the same rate. So prices go up more than they would if demand alone was doubling.

Peak oil is the point in time when the maximum rate of global petroleum production is reached, after which the rate of production enters its terminal decline. If global consumption is not mitigated before the peak, an energy crisis may develop because the availability of conventional oil will drop and prices will rise, perhaps dramatically.

[GoNads]

I'm lucky I live in a town like Whistler where I can bike or walk most everywhere, but for getting to work, and hauling around ladders, wood, paint etc I need my truck.

Believe it or not, this truck IS the cheapest way to travel to comps and do weeks-months on the road. I was home for all of maybe 8 days between january and end of april. The weekend warrior travels relatively light, but try traveling with comp skis for skiercross and big mountain, tuning equipment and your standard ski gear. We barely had room with 4 people and there were fullfaces, spineprotectors and everyone's 2 pairs of boots each spilling everywhere. I've seen my roomates try to cram stuff into their outback before it got flipped, on two separate occasions. Its cheaper to take a bigger vehicle and take more people over long distances, and if you've ever driven in BC you'd know that roads here are NOT constructed as well as the roads in europe, or maintained as well. Its a rarity to drive the coquihalla or rogers pass during winter and NOT see semi's and cars in the ditches or overturned.

I'm well aware that prices are on the rise, I knew that when I bought the truck that I'd have to make sacrifices for this lifestyle. Still a day sledding for ~40$ is cheaper than a lift pass to most resorts, and the pow is alllll miiiiiiiiine. I'd just like to see it a little more controlled, as in I'd like to see a graph or table comparing growth and consumption vs. price. I'd place my bets that until around 2001 it was pretty predictable and now all bets are off.

[6.ways.till.sunday]

It's not just the oil price. We also haven't built any new refineries in the US in decades.

A Big thanks to the EPA for that...

[stantonbum1]

World consumption doubling would result in world oil prices doubling. China doubling should not result in the world wide price doubling. It should go up percentage wise in relation in consumption growth.

The rate that the price increases at depends on the elasticity of demand and the supply curve. Depending on the angle of the demand curve a small % increase in demand can result in a far larger % increase in price. It can also be the other way around.

For more info see the vertical supply curve section
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand