Obesity Summit

[splat]

Cheez Whiz for President.

[Cosmic Bandito]

Originally posted by Benny Profane
You see, this is the problem. It is easy. Real fucking easy and simple. Eat less, eat healthy, and exercise. That is it. Cheap, too. It's your body, your problem. Don't come whining to me when you can't get up out of bed or they start chopping you feet off because your blood decided to stop flowing.

Look at your friends who are constantly dieting and tell me that going from fat to thin is easy.

I would like to run a sub 2:50 marathon. Do I know how to do it? Sure. Is it easy? Absolutely not.

[mr_gyptian]

that's the problem, they are dieting not exercising. Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers print cash because of the aforementioned.

[Ubersheist]

I read the topic and thought it was something akin to the Tahoe Summit and wondered where it is that I should show up.

[Viva]

Originally posted by Will
[Curious]
Anyone have any actual numbers on how many obese people are actually genetically predisposed to be obese? I mean, it's a lovely excuse and I'm sure that it applies to the leaders of those "fat rights" groups - but does it apply to every fat person? Most of them? Many of them? Very few?

And how strong of an influence is that predisposition; is it impossible for them to get healthy, very hard, hard, or just difficult?

To what extent is our weight a life-style choice?[/Curious]

One of the obesity mutations that I studied was determined to occur in approximately 5% of all cases of childhood obesity. There are also other mutations have also been linked to obesity.

What I was getting at is not necessarily a genetic predisposition per se, but the development of a preference for unhealthy foods. It's been demonstrated convincingly that adult mammals will strive to maintain the conditions encountered in their fetal environment.

[powslut]

i call bullshit on the BMI. i'm 6'2" and weigh 205 pounds which means, according to that scale, i am overweight with a 26.3. but it doesn't take into consideration that i run 30-40km a week, hike and lift weights which under most circumstances would mean i am healthy individual, not overweight.

[Oarhead]

Interesting topic.

I am continually amazed at the amount of money that people will spend on trying to get healthy - taking those metabolism boosters (which have killed several people), diet food, nutritionists however they refuse to invest in the cheapest and STILL the most effective way to lose weight: Exericise. Even going for a 30 min walk every night after dinner will impact your healtha nd obesity. The instant gratification factor is massive in the north american mindset, they want results in a matter of a week or even a month, however it usually takes years to get extremely obese, you can not expect to be able to shed pounds in a matter of a few weeks.

How is somebody deemed to be Obese? It is usually clearcut, however there are always gray areas. A lifestyle can be a huge determining factor and a doctors recommendation after a yearly check-up can go a long way if there is one of those gray areas. Sidenote: yes check-ups take time and cost money but the savings would be huge.

One it starts to hit people in the wallet then you will see some hasty scramblings for the health clubs. A person pays more in taxes contributing to an overburdened health system but it sia 'hidden' cost, lumped in with all the other stuff, however as soon as they start getting a bigger bill than their bike commuting neighbor then the shit will fly.

[Benny Profane]

Originally posted by powslut
i call bullshit on the BMI. i'm 6'2" and weigh 205 pounds which means, according to that scale, i am overweight with a 26.3. but it doesn't take into consideration that i run 30-40km a week, hike and lift weights which under most circumstances would mean i am healthy individual, not overweight.

I agree. I don't walk around with my shirt off out of mercy for the masses, but I bike over 100 miles a week and haven't been to a MacDonalds in 20 years.
Jezuz, I walked by a Dunkin Donuts drive-in the other day. A fucking drive-in! You can't walk 20 feet for that crap??!! And I bought a new air conditioner with a friggin REMOTE CONTROL!! Do people actually use these things?

As always, I recommend "Fast Food Nation" as a good read on the subject.

[Telenater]

BMI is horse shit. It doesn't take into account body build or muscle mass.

I've lost 25lbs in the past year and am in better shape than I've been in at anypoint in my life. I started the process by trimming down the amount I ate, and I've improved my condition through weight training and increased aerobic activity. It's been surprisingly easy once I got the process going. The inertia was the hardest part of it.

The last time I had my body fat tested it came in at 16.5 (Bioelectrical Impedance) or within the range of a healthy male. My BMI is 30.6 (or obese).

[divegirl]

Originally posted by Benny Profane
As always, I recommend "Fast Food Nation" as a good read on the subject.

I've heard this is a GREAT read. I need to pick it up...

[warthog]

Agreed- BMI is crap. Body fat is a better measure.



As for testing the fatties- Give them a sealed bag containing a randomly chosen pair of (clean?) underwear. Make them change into it in a dark room. When the doctor comes in, they must tell him what color the underwear is. Wrong answer- FAT.


* In the case of color blind fellas, they get a cute bunny pattern, or horsies. If they answer ducks, FAT.

It is cheap, and easy.




Just like fat girls- sorry I couldn't resist

[mr_gyptian]

Originally posted by Benny Profane
I agree. I don't walk around with my shirt off out of mercy for the masses, but I bike over 100 miles a week and haven't been to a MacDonalds in 20 years.
Jezuz, I walked by a Dunkin Donuts drive-in the other day. A fucking drive-in! You can't walk 20 feet for that crap??!! And I bought a new air conditioner with a friggin REMOTE CONTROL!! Do people actually use these things?

As always, I recommend "Fast Food Nation" as a good read on the subject.

Trust me it's the coffee. I have to order it on line. Summit County seems to have every other fast food establishment, but.

[The AD]

Yes, BMI has some shortcomings. If you look at this site: http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/bmicalc.htm they do mention that it may overestimate fat for athletes and those with high muscle mass, and underestimate fat for the elderly who have low muscle mass.

Another thing they mention is your waist should be less than 40 inches for a man and 35 inches for a woman. You take this and BMI together and I'd say it paints a pretty good picture of whether you are overweight or not for the majority of people.

For the record I guess my BMI is something like 23.5, but I've definitely been over 25 in my life.

[Viva]

BMI actually works pretty well when doing population studies, where the only real outliers are weightlifters, and these types of studies provide fairly good indicators of body fat mass. The BMI also corrects, to an extent, for height variability. Differences in bone mass is insignificant.

Of course a better test would be water displacement or electroimpedence on everyone (in the latter you'll have to be hydrated or the results can be way off), but these aren't always feasible.

Knowledge of someone's height and weight and taking into account whether or not the person lifts weights provides a reasonably good marker of nutritional status and risk for disease.

BTW, the most accurate analysis was a DEXA scan (densitometric scanning). We used to do this on mice all the time.

[Will]

Originally posted by Viva

What I was getting at is not necessarily a genetic predisposition per se, but the development of a preference for unhealthy foods. It's been demonstrated convincingly that adult mammals will strive to maintain the conditions encountered in their fetal environment.

I suppose what I'm wondering is how strong is that desire or striving? If they're used to junky food and no exercise how strong is that desire? Are they unable to improve their lifestyle, is it just really difficult, or is it kinda hard?

What is a reasonable degree of weight loss to expect from a severly overweight/obese person? At what point can we (generally) point the finger and say, "you're simply not trying hard enough?"

It is sort of unfair to demand that you answer these questions, so feel free to respond with a hearty "Up yours, I don't know!"

[Endlessseason]

I call on docs for a living. I can tell you that I know of none who rely on the BMI index. They realized the problem with it years ago.
Body fat % is much more reliable as one important variable in calculations or assessments of relative health, i.e. metabolic syndrome, CAD risk, Framingham CHD, etc.

[Samwich]

I think that people should take more personal responsibility for their health. I think it's bullshit that people are saying that Americans are forced to eat. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head. It's a personal choice to eat at McDonalds or go buy something healthy.
Also, people say that it is the economic condition that has led to such a high obesity level. The argument is, poor people can't afford healthy food. While it is true that health food is expensive, it's also true that you don't need health food to lose weight. Instead of a supersized burger, fries, and a large coke (diet, of course ), bring a salad. It works out cheaper, and it's healthier, and tastes a lot better. Don't buy the premixed salads, make your own out of cabbage etc. It's cheap. It's easy. It's heathy. Also, exercise is free. So it's not the economic condition. It's laziness.
Normally, i would agree that fat people should pay more because, through a lifestyle choice, they cost more to support. However, where do you draw the line? Will people that work in restaurants that allow smoking have to pay more because of the second hand smoke inhalation? Will people that drive unsafe cars have to pay more? Will people that enjoy extreme sports (such as skiing) have to pay more?

It isn't just fat people that cost the taxpayers money. There are a lot of different groups. Obesity is an issue that needs to be addressed. Personally, i can't stand morbidly obese people, even if they're really nice. Call me prejudiced, but that's how i feel.

If we can draw the line at fat people, smokers, etc paying more, that's great. But sports like skiing are expensive enough as it is, and i wouldn't want to be punished for enjoying a relatively healthy (albeit dangerous) activity.

[mr_gyptian]

AIG has been developing a technology that basically is a floating rate life insurance premium. corrolated to the riskiness of what you're doing. cost prohibitive for most of us.

[splat]

Originally posted by mr_gyptian
AIG has been developing a technology that basically is a floating rate life insurance premium. corrolated to the riskiness of what you're doing. cost prohibitive for most of us.

Yeah, gotta pay for those primetime TV ads they buy and skyscrapers they build.

[mr_gyptian]

I interviewed at one of their Re-Insurance arms. I half expected Darth Vader to interview me. Those doods are man eaters.

[Plakespear]

Originally posted by Samwich
Also, people say that it is the economic condition that has led to such a high obesity level. The argument is, poor people can't afford healthy food.

Nightline devoted an episode to this issue earlier this week. It asked the question of why is America the first society in history where the poor people are fat?

The problem in many poor neighborhoods is not the cost of food, but rather access to it. Many poor neighborhoods don't have good supermarkets, forcing people to shop at Bodegas and convenience stores.

I think the biggest problem is portion size- IE Ten years ago the soda machines sold 12 oz. cans. Now they all sell 20 oz bottles. That's about a hundred extra calories. And everything is supersize and mega value meal.

Everyone who bitches and moans about how hard is is to lose weight should realize that if they just made a few minor lifestyle changes, they might not be in the predicament. I mean, do you really have to drive from one end of the strip mall to the other? Take a fucking walk, you fat fucking fucks!