Acute Mountain Sickness - good info!

[Kellie]

For those of you seeking a higher level:

ACUTE MOUNTAIN SICKNESS

Symptoms (score):

Headache (1)
Nausea or loss of appetite (1)
Insomnia (1)
Dizziness (1)
Headache that remains after aspirin/ibuprofin (2)
Vomiting (2)
Difficult breathing at rest (3)
Abnormal or intense fatigue (3)
Decreased urination (3)

Total score:
1 to 3, light AMS - hydrate, ibuprofin/aspirin
4 to 6, moderate AMS - do not ascend
> 6, acute AMS. DESCEND, DESCEND, DESCEND

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The "accepted" definition is that high altitude begins at 7000 to 8000 feet, when the atmosphere is only 75% of it's usual density. At 14,000 ft. it's at 2/3 and at 18,000 ft. it's at about half.

Anybody ever experienced AMS?
Anyone have any experience with this one?

[shera]

I get a pretty high score if I've been drinking...

[SponsoredByDuctTape]

I think I hit a "5" once, driving into Tuolomne Meadows. Everyone piled out of the car, my friends all started bouldering. I had a gnarly headache, puked, passed out, woke up, still had a gnarly headache, forced myself to eat, drank a bunch of water, and I was fine. It was just about the worst feeling I've ever had.

[yogachik]

The weird thing is that, even if you've been living in the high altitude for some time, or go to higher elevations every week, you can still get AMS. It can hit anyone, anytime. I find that vodka causes AMS, but jack and coke does not.

[Clack]

Kellie-





















I think you're pregnant.

[Viva]

Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2002 Oct;12(5):306-10.


High-altitude pulmonary edema: potential protection by red wine.

Schafer A, Bauersachs J.

Department of Medicine, Julius-Maximilians University, Wurzburg, Germany. a.schaefer@medizin.uni-wuerzburg.de

High-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) is the predominant cause of death due to high-altitude illness. At first sight, the observation that mountaineers regularly consume red wine in order to "feel better" seems to be paradoxical because, especially at higher altitudes, alcohol consumption could be detrimental. In this article, we review the potential mechanisms by which the components of red wine may beneficially affect the development of HAPE. DATA SYNTHESIS: The underlying cause of HAPE is the altitude-related reduction in barometric pressure, which leads to a decrease in partial pressure of oxygen in the alveolae and subsequently in the pulmonary capillaries and arterial system. Two cellular mechanisms have been described, both of which increase pulmonary vascular tone: enhanced endothelin 1 production and the increased generation of reactive oxygen species. Recent evidence has indicated that some of the compounds of red wine suppress endothelin 1 gene expression, and the anti-oxidative properties of red wine have been previously reported. CONCLUSION: This article briefly summarises the pathophysiological cellular events leading to HAPE and describes the potential mechanisms by which the ingredients of red wine may have a beneficial effect.

[Ubersheist]

I got an "8" once while at the Conundrum Hot Springs near Aspen. It blew.

[Yossarian]

yes kellie, have been up high plenty enough to have had mild-moderate AMS myself and have seen severe AMS and been around HAPE once too

basically, the only thing you can do to make it better is go down as fast as possible.

but in most cases, when climbing up big things, mild AMS is pretty much the norm for everyone, and just becomes something you live with when you're climbing. adds to the willpower part of the climb...

you hit 90% acclimitization after about 4 days or so, decreasing returns after that

also, effects of altitude don't usually set in strong until about 12 hours after first climbing up, which has resulted in the relatively recent (in last decade) ethic of super fast and light climbs of very big peaks. It also means that staying up high hurts lots more than climbing high and returning...

which gives rises to the age old adage, Climb High, Sleep Low.

for a good read on general wilderness medicine, with a great section on altitude, try Medicine For Mountaineering

happy hunting
happy hunting

[SLSki]

I usually get somewhere around a 4/5 at 13 to 14K. I always feel fucked when summiting Longs or something similar, and I can't seem to hydrate at higher altitudes.

[Snow Nymph]

AMS can hit anyone at anytime.

During the week I live at sea level, weekends I live in Mammoth. My weekends from June-Nov are spend in the Sierra but I still get AMS once in awhile. My last backpack (mid May) I was at 6. I think it was from sleeping at 6,000', and the trailhead was at 9,200'. I made it to 13,005', but I didn't feel good til 2:50pm on Sunday. Whenever I sleep lower than the trailhead, I always get sick.

[SponsoredByDuctTape]

Originally posted by Snow Nymph
AMS can hit anyone at anytime.

During the week I live at sea level, weekends I live in Mammoth. My weekends from June-Nov are spend in the Sierra but I still get AMS once in awhile. My last backpack (mid May) I was at 6. I think it was from sleeping at 6,000', and the trailhead was at 9,200'. I made it to 13,005', but I didn't feel good til 2:50pm on Sunday. Whenever I sleep lower than the trailhead, I always get sick.

That wouldn't have been at Whitney, would it?

[Kellie]

Originally posted by monster dump.


I think you're pregnant.

What's that supposed to mean?!? I am so confused!

[summit]

Originally posted by Yossarian
you hit 90% acclimitization after about 4 days or so, decreasing returns after that

Boosting your red cell count takes longer than that (or is just boosting hemoglobin count, I forget). Unless you consider that the last 10%...

[Yossarian]

from a performance perspective, I think you get most of the way there after about 4 days at a given altitude between 10k and 15k or so (assuming you've already acclimitized to something a bit lower but haven't jumped right up from way low). Below 10k, it may be faster. After a week up high, you're somewhere around 95% of performance, but yes, it takes longer for true adjustment, ie red blood cell, etc. For me, it's a couple weeks up high before I feel like I can run around and stuff, and having that kind of window basically never happens for us corporate lackeys. I used to work my summers at 10,200, and although I could take morning jogs within a few days of arriving, it wasn't until around the third week that I could really run for any length of time up there.

I've never been up really high, but it doesn't sound like fun to me. You get stupid(er) in the head up there, and you lose the ability to enjoy what you're doing. I haven't quite broken the 20k mark though, and I would sort of like to do that sometime.

Maybe ski Denali someday, we'll see. Aint gonna happen anytime soon, that's for damn sure.

[Kellie]

I've never even crossed the 15k threshold, but I'd really like to - not sure what the appeal is, but it seems like a cool challenge. We'll see how I hold up on 14ers and go from there, I guess :-)

[Snow Nymph]

Originally posted by SponsoredByDuctTape
That wouldn't have been at Whitney, would it?

No, that was Onion Valley to Kearsarge Lakes, with a dayclimb of Mt Gould.

[shera]

This is a good thread...

I live at 10,200. I still slow down when I get above 13,000. But not sick in any way.

I really love that IMAX move about Mt Everest. That Spanish chick is so cool. Remember when she's all depressed in her tent? Definitely altitude talking.

[jonen]

A friend of mine (seriously) gets bad when over 1.000 meters ~3.280 feet. We are pretty sure it is not due to any after ski activities... This can't be normal, or can it?

[iceman]

Serious symptoms at 1000m would not be normal, no.

[sandytheskier]

Glad to know we have a doctor on the site.

I have treated alot of people with ams. Getting them down and hydrating them really helps.
I have a friend who teaches kids to ski at Brianhead resort, which is pretty high up compared to las vegas. She has kids puking on her all the time.

[shera]

Originally posted by iceman
Serious symptoms at 1000m would not be normal, no.

Wasn't Tampa Bay hitting the oxygen when they were in Calvary?

[iceman]

Teams do it in Denver, too. Doesn't mean they have AMS, though.

[shera]

Originally posted by sandytheskier
She has kids puking on her all the time.

I've had kids puke in the patrol room at Loveland. Cleaning up their macaroni and cheese lunch because I didn't get the garbage can under them in time, one of the joys of patrolling.

[sandytheskier]

Originally posted by SheRa


I live at 10,200. I still slow down when I get above 13,000. But not sick in any way.

Yeah I grew up at about 7,000. I can feel the air thinning around 12,000 and a little dizzy when I am lucky enough to get up to 14,000.
It feels like sucking the o2 through a straw.

[zion zig zag]

I've read that it only takes about 2-3 days to de-acclimatize(sp).