Sooooooooo........do I need/want a second bike?

[lph]

Right now I have a SC Heckler set up as an aggressive xc bike. I have the 5th element in the rear and a fox talas RLC in the front. So, i basically got 5"/5" travel. I friggin love the bike. It does great on technical climbs and long climbs. On the descents it will soak up most of the average sized hits, but when I am faced with bigger drops on really steap terrain, it is a bit overmatched. It seems like this is due to a combination of the geometry and the front suspension. Also, for back comfort, i bought it in an xlarge frame even though i am only a little over 6'. The frame size, i believe, also somewhat limits its handling in real technical terrain.

I am triing to decide if i want to take the plunge into a more downhill oriented bike, more of a slacker geometry, maybe 7" of travel front and rear and possibly a triple clamp fork. Yet still something I could pedal up hill, keeping the weight below 40lbs.

I guess i am looking for advice on frames and suspensions primarily, but any other advice on freeride bikes is appreciated. I have started reading some of the stuff on mtbr.com but i know that a bunch of you do some downhill racing and have freeride bikes.

Also, durability is key, I bought the heckler cause I ride hard and I ride alot, and weigh about 210, however, the bike is in the shop now because there is already some play b/t the frame and rear triangle and some other pieces that are coming loose.

Any input is appreciated.

[zion zig zag]

check out the yeti as-x. i friggin love it, it climbs great, and descends even better. with Dh tires and tubes it weighs right around 40 lbs. 7.5" in the back and 7" up front.

[altagirl]

I have a 5"/5.75" travel XC/trail bike and a DH bike. There are a lot of good options out there for a longer travel bike, and I like having two very different bikes. (I have a Giant DH Team and a Yeti 575.) I wanted something that climbs well but is still fun on descents and a real DH bike for lift served/shuttled riding/racing.

In your situation, I'd check out a VP Free, Yeti AS-X... Definitely don't go too big with the frame. My first DH bike was too big for me - going to a smaller frame made handling tech sections and cornering so much easier.

[lph]

Yup, saw the as-x at my lbs tonite, guy who owns it works at the shop and loves it. has the sherman up front and he did a 30 mile, up/down, xc ride recently and said the bike was great.

I have also read some good things about the vpfree, particularly that it can be pedaled uphill.

i think i will probably end up doing a combo of car shuttle and climbing. the guy i would be primarily riding with has a stinky with a super T up front, which amazingly, he pedals up hill almost as fast as i do on the heckler.

[Plakespear]

You also need to get yourself a road bike.

[altagirl]

I had one of those and sold it. Just don't feel safe riding on the road around here... DH is dangerous, but the injuries are pretty much guaranteed to be my own fault, not because some idiot was too busy on the phone or with their 12 kids in their Expedition to pay attention to the road. Maybe if I lived out in the middle of nowhere I'd get one again.

[Crinkle]

[as-x hijack] I got a chance to 2 miles of nice rolling trail the other day on my friend's AS-X, he had the Fox 100mm fork on it with XT and XTR componets. That thing climbed amazing. I never realized how much drivetrain/shock power loss I had on my bike compared to his. It was a solid climber, also climbed like it weighed 22 lbs, instead of the 26-27 that is was. The thing that freaked me out about it was, it goes where you point, but it was also nice, that it went exactly where you pointed it.

AG, does the 575 ride similar to the AS-X in any way?? I loved the way it climbed, but it felt like i was decending on a razor blade, which I was not too fond of. My friend has been riding it for over a year and he loves to climb, but is pretty timid while decending. I can completely understand from my short test ride why. Too jittery and over responsive, but man what a climbing machine.

[zion zig zag]

wow, Crinkle, I can't imagine the way an AS-X would handle with only a 100mm fork. I've got 170mm up front and I would think that would take out the twitchiness.

[bagtagley]

26-27 lbs is uber light for an AS-X. Not trying to call you out, but are you sure that's what you rode?

lph, best thing you can do is test ride. You can't go wrong with most of the current long-travel, 3 ring bikes. If you want simple, but not quite as plush, there are a ton of single pivot bikes that fit your specs: Yeti AS-X, SC Bullit, Orange Patriot or Double-D, etc. Linkage bikes are a bit more plush, but typically cost more and require a bit more maintenance: Banshee Scream, SC VPFree, Intense VPP.

I can't say enough good things about the Bullit (ride, price, reliability), but most freeride bikes out there are quite capable, you just need to figure out which one fits you the best.

[altagirl]

Yeah, your review leaves me totally confused. I can't even figure out how anyone would get an AS-X to weigh under 30 lbs, let alone understand why someone would put a 100mm fork on it. I'm also assuming it must have had ultra light skinny tires on it to get it that light. The combination of wrong fork and skinny tires is (I'm sure) where the twitchiness came from. But I honestly am left thinking you must have rode something else because that setup seriously makes no sense - who would have 7" rear travel and 4" in the front? Are you sure it wasn't an AS-R (which is a step more XC from the 575)?

My 575 climbs very well, better than the AS-X because it's lighter than Mr.AG's AS-X by probably 10 lbs. Both pedal well with a 5th element though, the rest is just a matter of weight. I think the 575 does exceptionally well downhill considering the light weight, comparatively narrow bars and smaller tires - I'm still running the stock 2.1 High Rollers, which are the skinniest tire I've used in years. I'm thinking I'll put a 2.3 up front once they wear out, but I've been pleasantly surprised by it's decending ability. And as far as climbing goes - before I got this bike, I hated, I mean HATED to climb. Now I actually enjoy it - a lot at times. That's a serious compliment to this bike. It's definitely a compromise from the AS-X going downhill, but I figure I have a DH bike when I really want to go crazy...

[lph]

Plake,

got a road bike which i don't use often for the same reasons that AG alluded to. My first ride of the year was this saturday and i was scared shitless both up and down thanks to hundreds of crotch rockets passing me at 70mph, trucks buzzing me and the general memorial weekend traffic on the mountain passes. Although, I am riding around lake tahoe this coming weekend, can't wait. thousands of people doing it. there is strength in numbers, we get a lane to ourselves.

bagtagley,

don't know much about 'how' suspensions work, but I do want a bike that is a little more plush than the heckler. The heckler is great for the big hits, but sometimes going fast over alot of smaller hits (which is common in tahoe) it feels a little rough. So, the as-x is a single pivot? that is good to know.

Also, what do you guys think about some of the new long travel single crown forks vs triple crown forks? I feel like if i am going to go freeride and make this second bike significantly different from the heckler i should be looking at a triple clamp.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

all this advice is great, but....whatever you do, if you want this sucker below 40 lbs....leave the basket, streamers, and banana seat on the Heckler

[lph]

Originally posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
all this advice is great, but....whatever you do, if you want this sucker below 40 lbs....leave the basket, streamers, and banana seat on the Heckler

the whole point of this bike is downhill speed, which will make the streamers look even cooler. Therefore, a new set of streamers is in the budget for the new bike.

[Crinkle]

yup, I'm a retard, was drinking while posting, not a good idea. It was an ASR. my appologies for the confusion

[Viva]

Originally posted by Crinkle
yup, I'm a retard, was drinking while posting, not a good idea. It was an ASR. my appologies for the confusion

Nothing retarded about that- in fact, you're quite talented. I have to put my beer down whenever I post.

[altagirl]

Makes sense then. AS-R is more of an XC race bike, it's built for climbing. A 575 is definitely going to be an improvement for the descents. And an AS-X is going to feel like a DH bike in comparison to an AS-R.

[Telenater]

Ehhh, who needs a high travel bike.....

It's all about picking your way through the tough lines.

[altagirl]

Have you ever ridden a DH bike?

[Telenater]

Originally posted by altagirl
Have you ever ridden a DH bike?

Nope.

But, I probably also should have included an emoticon or two in there to convey my feeble attempt at humor.

I suspect LPH would have seen humor in my statement, but then, we've ridden together and he's seen how I ride.

[altagirl]

Gotcha. I was just going to say that while I like climbing and XC, riding a DH bike is like fat skis on a powder day. If you can afford two bikes, it's so much fun....

[hev]

With the 1.5 steerer I am thinking about going with an ASX as a DH bike. my LBS actually said I can get a factory tour and ride one in a variety of set ups on some local trails down in golden. I can get a better deal on some other bikes but I think that kind of treatment is pretty damn cool and may be worth a few extra bucks.

...so something to think about if you ever in the frontrange area.

[lph]

Originally posted by hev
With the 1.5 steerer I am thinking about going with an ASX as a DH bike. my LBS actually said I can get a factory tour and ride one in a variety of set ups on some local trails down in golden. I can get a better deal on some other bikes but I think that kind of treatment is pretty damn cool and may be worth a few extra bucks.

...so something to think about if you ever in the frontrange area.

excuse my ignorance, what is a 1.5 steerer?

will it be a DH bike you can pedal up 1500 vert? What kind of front fork are you thinking?

There is nowhere that i know of in tahoe (south lake) anyways where i can demo a bike. i will have to check the northshore to see what they have going as far as demos.

AG, ya, when I buy this bike it will be a large frame (which is probably right for me) I don't want to oversize myself and end up with too big a frame.

[hev]

1.5 steerer is an oversized head tube used for greater strnegth on DH frames. the ASX is built with a 1.5 steerer wich is designed for a heavy/strong fork set up. ideally i'd be running a sherman slider or a breakout plus (wich it comes with). either way it will probably weigh about 40+ built up. so definately not a bike you take a fast pace xc ride, but it should be just borderline light enough to do some slow climbing. a 5th element shock and a a slider fork help a lot with this as well. I am not planning on doing much/any xc riding with it, but shuttles wich require some climbing should be ideal.

[lph]

OK that makes some sense. The AS-X i saw yesterday had the 1.5 steerer and the sherman fork on there. it was the one that you could change the travel from 7" to 6". is that what the 'slider fork' is?

Hev, i would be keeping the heckler for long rides and xc rides and using that the vast majority of the time.

So your build, even with the sherman single crown it is still gonna come in close to 40lbs? definitely only for small slow climbs, huh?

[bagtagley]

1.5 ht is only really necessary if you plan to run a long travel (6-7") single crown fork, and a Manitou at that since nobody else makes forks w/ 1.5 steerer tubes. If you plan to run a dual crown fork, then the ht size won't matter...all DC forks are 1.125.

I personally am a fan of DC forks, but that's mostly because I also DH race my freeride bike. Though the bike is pretty raked out, it climbs really well. I'd definitely recommend a DC, but I must mention that 1) I've never ridden a 6"+ travel SC fork 2) I've had enough bad experiences w/ Manitou in the past that I have trouble acknowledging the vast improvements they've made to their forks in recent years.