GUNS!!!!!!!!

**Diamond Joe** · 07-31-2011, 08:12 PM

Hey Gun nuts!

Any recommendatioins/reviews of Kel-tec?

Specifically, my buddy wants to reduce his quiver, and offered me a P11 with only about 300 rounds through it, for $200..

Thoughts?

**TNKen** · 08-01-2011, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

Hey Gun nuts!

Any recommendatioins/reviews of Kel-tec?

Specifically, my buddy wants to reduce his quiver, and offered me a P11 with only about 300 rounds through it, for $200..

Thoughts?

Good gun. I have a .32 Decent deal on the gun, not smoking. Full retail on a P11 is $259.99.

Ken

**Cono Este** · 08-01-2011, 08:07 AM

People like keltec, but I shot the p11 and the trigger pull was god awful. not fun, and the recoil was was bad too. I respect the company, low cost etc.. but no fun to shoot. spend another 100-150 and get a used glock or smith from cdnn.

**TNKen** · 08-01-2011, 09:24 AM

Agree with CE. Concealable Kel-Tec is not something to take to the range and blast. As a friend of mine used to say, they are a "get off of me" gun. If you want a gun to shoot on a regular basis, this isn't it. A gun to keep in the truck/car/backpack for emergency purposes, go for it.

Make sure you keep it clean and well oiled. As the Kel-Tec's now have some age on them, a concern has popped up on unkept guns that the main operating spring will rust and fail. If you are thinking about buying, ask the owner to disassemble and check the internals and springs. Magazine spring too.

**Parvo** · 08-01-2011, 09:41 AM

The P11 is my daily CC pistol and I like the term "get off me gun" because that's exactly what it is. The ejector broke so I sent it back and Kel Tec fixed it, polished the feed ramp, and were quick about it too. I never take it to the range, it's not a fun gun to shoot. It's lightweight, easy to conceal, and the trigger pull says "you must really want to shoot me."

I'd recommend it at that price, decent deal but not a steal.

**Diamond Joe** · 08-01-2011, 04:08 PM

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it

I should have qualified my initial question - the reason I'm considering buying this gun is for concealed carry. I have a Remington shotgun for home defense and an older .25-20 scoped hunting rifle, but I want something small and light for my pocket/truck/backpack. I like that this gun, while light and concealable, still packs 11 rounds of a caliber that has some stopping power.

The gun is real clean, but I will have it disassembled to check out the internals before I buy it. Thanks for that advice, exactly what I was looking for. (What to check out/beware of with this particular gun maker) As well as whether its a good deal or not - I think I could get him down to $160 or $175, but I dont want to beat him up too much, as he is a good friend.

Originally Posted by Cono Este

People like keltec, but I shot the p11 and the trigger pull was god awful. not fun, and the recoil was was bad too. I respect the company, low cost etc.. but no fun to shoot. spend another 100-150 and get a used glock or smith from cdnn.

sorry to sound ignorant, but what is cdnn?

**leroy jenkins** · 08-01-2011, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

sorry to sound ignorant, but what is cdnn?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cdnn

**Diamond Joe** · 08-01-2011, 11:18 PM

^^ haahahaha

i deserved that.

thanks

**XXX-er** · 08-02-2011, 10:13 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqJHP1-j0o

here's a gun song for ya from the land of maple syrup, I seen Fred unplugged and solo at a ranch up on the high road ...good show if you ever get a chance to see him

**leroy jenkins** · 08-02-2011, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

^^ haahahaha

i deserved that.

thanks

You're welcome. Some questions are just real hard to answer without being a smart ass.

Since we are posting gun songs, I'll throw up a couple of quite different flavors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYryevHIZGw

And something a bit more American

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWEJPqJtZsk

**45hill** · 08-02-2011, 06:00 PM

+

= Pure awesomeness.

I had an almost empty, not enough to take take backpacking again, bottle of fuel so what a better way to dispose of it than shooting it. Then I got the genius idea of placing the fuel container directly behind the exploding target. My buddy shot it from about 75 yards with a 30-06. The bullet went through both creating an amazing blast. We could feel the shockwave and it sounded like a canon went off. Bad ass.

**waxman** · 08-02-2011, 07:22 PM

i would like to get some of those Star Targets or similar up here in the great white north...silly laws...

**khakis** · 08-02-2011, 10:30 PM

dang pepperdawg...that's sexy!

**pepperdawg** · 08-04-2011, 05:24 AM

Thx Khakis....Shhh dont tell my wife. Thx

**lobstahmeatwad** · 08-04-2011, 01:14 PM

what does anyone know about this place and this brand of shotgun?
westley?
http://www.theonlinegunshop.com/shop...SG+-+&x=21&y=5

**Crud's Uncle** · 08-06-2011, 11:22 AM

I would suggest that you considered a full size 9mm for concealed carry. I carry a FNX9 99% of the time in a AIWB holster. With a good belt, it is comfortable and easy to carry. I am convinced that it is better to have 18 rounds rather than 7 or 8. With a second mag, I have 35 rounds. If you have to deal with more than one attacker, more rounds are good. Also, handgun rounds suck at stopping an attack. You may need more than you think.

Steve Lee's I Like Guns is a cool song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU

Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it
e
I should have qualified my initial question - the reason I'eem considering buying this gun is for concealed carry. I have a Remington shotgun for home defense and an older .25-20 scoped hunting rifle, but I want something small and light for my pocket/truck/backpack. I like that this gun, while light and concealable, still packs 11 rounds of a caliber that has some stopping power.

The gun is real clean, but I will have it disassembled to check out the internals before I buy it. Thanks for that advice, exactly what I was looking for. (What to check out/beware of with this particular gun maker) As well as whether its a good deal or not - I think I could get him down to $160 or $175, but I dont want to beat him up too much, as he is a good friend.

sorry to sound ignorant, but what is cdnn?

**Diamond Joe** · 08-06-2011, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Crud's Uncle

I would suggest that you considered a full size 9mm for concealed carry. I carry a FNX9 99% of the time in a AIWB holster. With a good belt, it is comfortable and easy to carry. I am convinced that it is better to have 18 rounds rather than 7 or 8. With a second mag, I have 35 rounds. If you have to deal with more than one attacker, more rounds are good. Also, handgun rounds suck at stopping an attack. You may need more than you think.

Thats one of the reasons why I like the P11 - with one in the chamber, you got 11 rounds of 9mm, which is a LOT better than most of the small, light, CC guns out there. Have you seen this gun? Its small, light, and thin enough to toss into the pocket of your windbreaker, or in a small backpack compartment, or in your jeans. Full-size 9's, like the one you mention, are NOT small enough to throw in your pocket. You need, like you said, a holster and a good belt..

**Crud's Uncle** · 08-06-2011, 06:58 PM

I had a PF9 and may get another. I had a Taurus PT709 and recently sold it, because I rarely carried it. I have carried the FNX in pants and shorts with larger pockets. It would work in a backpack.

The only time I find that I am not carrying is when I jog.

**Jer** · 08-07-2011, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Crud's Uncle

The only time I find that I am not carrying is when I jog.

You should start!

I cunted up a very ridiculous thread about this important subject over on THR once. I'm pretty sure lots of guys over there carry when in the shower.

**BobMc** · 08-24-2011, 10:13 PM

After months of saving and wavering between various optics I finally took delivery of an SWFA SS 1-4. I went out last Friday and shot a few rounds before it got dark, I'm really digging the glass and overall quality of the scope. Headed to the desert tomorrow night with my boy, we'll be flinging a lot of lead over the weekend.

**XavierD** · 08-25-2011, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Crud's Uncle

I would suggest that you considered a full size 9mm for concealed carry. I carry a FNX9 99% of the time in a AIWB holster. With a good belt, it is comfortable and easy to carry. I am convinced that it is better to have 18 rounds rather than 7 or 8. With a second mag, I have 35 rounds. If you have to deal with more than one attacker, more rounds are good. Also, handgun rounds suck at stopping an attack. You may need more than you think.

Thoughts on caliber choice for defensive handgun.
9mm is a small, fast round. This makes it more likely to over penetrate, without transferring put down levels of energy to the intended target. Even IF the bullet expands, which is not guaranteed, your shot will probably not be incapacitating, especially if the guy is high. I would prefer to not carry 9mm. I can kill with it, but I would rather not have to shoot the guy 5+ times. Keep in mind, if you do have to use your weapon, you may end up on the wrong side of a court room. If you do end up facing charges, the fewer shots fired, the better. The only time I would consider it, is with a small light weight gun when discretion is paramount (ex: college campus) If I did carry 9mm it would be with a 147gr. +P Winchester Ranger SXT or T-series.

.40 S&W is another very fast bullet. It will tend to over penetrate if the bullet does not expand. I would carry it iff I could not accurately shoot a .45. I would not use it in a home defense situation either, as most bullets will go through a few walls of sheet rock. One thing to think about, is that there are many handguns that are offer a compact model in 9mm/.40cal that do not offer a .45 option. If you can shoot it accurately and consistently, I believe .40 to be a better choice then 9mm.

.45 ACP is my preferred round for CC. It is a larger slower round, it is less likely to over penetrate, and will result in a high level of energy transfered to the target. The disadvantage of it, is that not everyone can handle the round. If you can't, don't carry it.

As for bullet choice. I carry 230gr. Speer Gold Dots, they expand when they hit flesh, tend not to get fucked by clothing, and result in a nice temporary and permanent cavity. The only other rounds I would carry would be Winchester Ranger SXT or T-series. These bullets also expand when they hit tissue.
Hydroshock is IMO over rated, they tend to not expand when they are supposed to, and most people hit by them tend to live. Other hollow points are what they are. If you can try and talk to the local hospital trauma surgeon, preferably one that will see the results of violent crime. Ask the surgeon what bullets they see expand/fail to expand, which are most often lethal, etc.
That said, neither the Gold Dots or SXT/T-series will make up for poor shot placement. Shot placement is everything.

Oh, and I just picked up an M&P 45c that is great. So far I have fed it quite a lot of crap, with zero malfunctions. It has a very nice short trigger pull, and the metal slide helps keep muzzle clime down. I was originally going to get a 4in Springfield 1911, but those are becoming very hard to find. I am very happy with the M&P.

**Tuckerman** · 08-25-2011, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by XavierD

Keep in mind, if you do have to use your weapon, you may end up on the wrong side of a court room. If you do end up facing charges, the fewer shots fired, the better. The only time I would consider it, is with a small light weight gun when discretion is paramount (ex: college campus) If I did carry 9mm it would be with a 147gr. +P Winchester Ranger SXT or T-series.

Hopefully not in NH

Under current state law, people can only use deadly force if they feel threatened on their property. The bill would have allowed people to use deadly force whenever they feel their lives are in jeopardy, either at home or anyplace else.

**Parvo** · 08-25-2011, 08:38 AM

Picked up a Mark III yesterday for super-cheap off a guy who thought it was broken and needed to be sent back to Ruger. Turns out he didn't have the little strut on the back of the hammer seated properly in the mainspring housing in the grip. Haven't shot it but the action is functioning fine. I feel a little bad about it and might give it back to him.

**TNKen** · 08-25-2011, 09:07 AM

Got to handle a Kimber Solo the other day. Sweet!

**BobMc** · 08-28-2011, 10:48 PM

Well, that was fun. Headed out to the West Desert with my boy and a friend of his. We pretty much shot guns the entire weekend, the boys polished off over 800 rounds of .22 shells. I spend Saturday morning sighting in our two .22 rifles, my 5.56 carbine, and my .308. I sighted the 22's and the 5.56 at 50 yards and the .308 at 100, I spend a lot of time traipsing through the desert checking hits and adjusting scopes (I really need to get a spotting scope.).

Once I had everything dialed in we spent the rest of the weekend shooting placed clay pigeons, water filled jugs, and a couple of 1/4" steel wheel chocks I had at the shop. The steel was pretty fun, you definitely knew when you hit it.

I need to get some real steel, ours took a beating this weekend:

About half of the 5.56's would go through, the other half damn near made it through and left bubbles in the steel. The dark spots are .22 round hits. The target was put out at 153 yards.

I was pretty happy with my new 1-4, it definitely makes the weapon more precise than the iron sights. Once I got it sighted in I was able to put up some pretty nice groups at a 100 yard target.

Hanging with the boys shooting guns in the desert ain't a bad way to spend a weekend.