Praxis: Hybrid vs Powder...any thoughts?

[njfreeskier]

Praxis Hybrid vs Praxis Powder:
Which to get? Advantages of each? Disadvantages?

So like many skiers here, i've been reading quite a bit about praxis' skis, and everything seems to be really positive. I was set on getting a pair for next year but was a little hesitant about getting a reverse sidecut ski. I've been reading up on reverse sidecut as well, and not sure if i really want that type of ski. Then about a month ago, there was a post about praxis diversifying and adding more skis to the lineup. this was music to my ears. now they are making a hybrid ski, which as you guys know is almost full reverse sidecut, but with a small amount of conventional sidecut. since i've never skied a reverse sidecut ski, and am hesitant about getting one, is the hybrid the ski for me. Are there any major advantages or disadvantages in choosing one over the other?

I think the hybrid is the better choice. same bomber construction and continuous curve rocker as the powder, but with a little edge contact for when its really needed? am i off base?

thanks in advance for any help or advice in picking.

[toiletduck]

I still can't decide if I'm fully in love with my Praxis or if they'd be better served as something like a Brocker. Today Fernie had a 20cm blower day, so light I still skiied on the bottom, and Praxis rocked. Some days though, I just wish I could rail some turns in spots where it's windschralped or icy.

The point I'm rambling to is that if you're on reverse/reverse skis, conditions probably dictate you're not gonna be doing a whole lot of carving anyway on whatever you take up the mountain, and I don't really fancy the idea of destroying my ankles trying to roll 138mm or whatever on its side anyway. The whole Hybrid thing kind of feels like a bit of a placebo to make people feel better about not having too much of a different ski under them. It's probably got it's advantages, like sidehilling or long traverses or something, but I'd assume you'd lose some of the easy pivoting that makes the Praxis so awesome.

[Wetdog]

I just posted a rather long winded review of the Praxis after cat skiing with them with a link to some earlier thought after skiing them at the resort. I have skiied the ARG which has the flat spot and the small bit of normal side cut and it didn't really make any difference to the the hard snow performance of the ski vs the Praxis and in fact hurt their performance by comparison in the soft. You have to weight a little more back on the Praxis in those firmer conditions but the continuous curve reverse camber is superior in the deep when sliding the ski or "slarving." The Praxis traverse just as well as my other narrower regular sidecut skis. It can be a bit tiring skiing extended groomers on them, but that comes from the width, which you will experience skiing any really wide ski. Don't be afraid. Just get them and don't go half measures, you will be happier going for the real thing.

[Huckin eh?]

Or just get a pair o Pontoons!

[njfreeskier]

Or just get a pair o Pontoons!

too soft, too non-durable, too not versatile, too K2

[Spartacus087]

I was thinking about the MTN Freeride but after reading that O'Meara uses it for a comp ski sometimes im thinking i may be a bit much.

[Huckin eh?]

too soft, too non-durable, too not versatile, too K2

Too bad!!!


And not versatile!.....I beg to differ , but I havent tried the Praxis/spatula shapes yet. My quver has 5 sets of sticks including some custom made, and the toon is still my "go to" weapon of choice!

[njfreeskier]

Too bad!!!


And not versatile!.....I beg to differ , but I havent tried the Praxis/spatula shapes yet. My quver has 5 sets of sticks including some custom made, and the toon is still my "go to" weapon of choice!

heh....i've never skied them so i can't make an argument either way. but from what i've read and heard, the praxis seems to be the better option. what is it about the pontoon you like so much, and what other sticks does your quiver consist of

[butterscotch]

Don't compromise. Go full reverse/reverse. Screw sidecut.

On the rare day that you're bombing groomers (and I mean real groomed runs, not trails that are usually groomed but have 10" of snow on them), you might appreciate some sidecut. Otherwise, sidecut is irrelevant and full r/r kills it.

Don't fear the lack of sidecut. I was apprehensive as well, but honestly, I don't even think about it. I just go. I just visualize my line and do it. My other fear was "dust on icy death moguls" conditions, but the pivoty-ness and the fact the edge is right underfoot make the ski awesome in those conditions.

[Huckin eh?]

My quiver is:
1999 Rossignol Bandit XX (rarely used anymore)
2004 K2 Seth Pistol (189) (Now relegated to rock ski status)
2005 Dynastar Legend Pro rider (186)
2007 K2 Pontoon (189)
2008 Wagner custom touring ski (191cm, 133,104,122 medium + flex)

The customs were bought for long tours and they are great . But if the snow is new (0 - 3 days old), Im on the toons. I have Freerides on them so I get them into slackcountry a lot. Skinning isnt as bad as you think, and they are the ultimate trail breaking tool (hmmm, fresh snow, thats when you will be touring on them anyway)

As for the ride!
First of all, I ride in Fernie a lot so I get them out on a lot of 20cm + dumps.
They turn effortlessly.
They float like their namesake.
They land hucks with amazing softness
They make breakable crust feel like pow.
They float through tracked powder really well, just give em speed and they stay on top.
Moguls with 20cm + on em??? just bounce from mogul top to mogul top with speed and you will find that really fun too.
They handle high speeds really really well, much better than you think for a relatively soft plank.
They are somewhat carvable on groomers and flat pistes as long as they arent icy/crusty.

Cons.
Icy groomers!
When tracked pow becomes crud
moguls.

Disclaimer:
I am a powder snob. Most powder days at the resort I am hiking slackcountry with them in the afternoon when all of the fresh tracks and semi tracked powder is gone. I am a first chair fanatic so I always get a reaaaaally sweet first line. I am in great shape and I can handle failry long back/slackcounty missions with these things and have even done some days at Rogers Pass on them (which I don't regret in any way.)
When the ski penetration in the snow is 20cm+ they are the automatic choice. If its 15cm I still try them on more often than not and rarely regret it.

Hope that helps put my praise on them into perspective!

Maybe I would like a pair of Praxis too, I guess I just need to get an opportunity to try em out!

[Wetdog]

I just posted a rather long winded review of the Praxis after cat skiing with them with a link to some earlier thought after skiing them at the resort. I have skiied the ARG which has the flat spot and the small bit of normal side cut and it didn't really make any difference to the the hard snow performance of the ski vs the Praxis and in fact hurt their performance by comparison in the soft. You have to weight a little more back on the Praxis in those firmer conditions but the continuous curve reverse camber is superior in the deep when sliding the ski or "slarving." The Praxis traverse just as well as my other narrower regular sidecut skis. It can be a bit tiring skiing extended groomers on them, but that comes from the width, which you will experience skiing any really wide ski. Don't be afraid. Just get them and don't go half measures, you will be happier going for the real thing.

Just having checked the website, I now understand more completely what you were asking. I thought the question was full reverse reverse vs rockered tips and tails with a flat and regular sidecut mid section. The Hybrid does look interesting having continuous curves rocker and a touch of side cut. If you were only skiing resorts and have a lot of groomers to negotiate it might be worth considering, but I really haven't had a problem with my regular Praxis either traversing or skiing groomers. What is interesting though is the widened tip which I think may improve powder performance overall. I was trying to determine what I very occasionally noticed in high speed turns, a need to mount back further or a fatter tip. Maybe the fatter tip is the solution. Oh well I have my 07/08's and it looks like they are going to last for a long, long time!

[adam]

has anyone actually skied the new praxi yet?

[Jim S]

too soft, too non-durable, too not versatile, too K2

and you are too wrong.

.
.
.
I have beat the crap out of my Pontoons and Seth Vicious and they hold up just fine with no issues. I also have the Praxis 195.

Here were my comments from a different thread:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...t=95880&page=3

Praxis vs Pontoon

I've had two-three days on the 195cm Praxis and weeks on the 189cm Pontoon.

Me 6'2" and 190lbs, ski very fast and hard, hucks up to 30 feet but usually smaller, never switch, never park.

In a nutshell:

Pontoon
-Easier learning curve if any at all. A retard could jump on these and kill the pow. I am proof of this.
-Fast to float and all you need is soft; it does not need to be deep
-Softer than the Praxis so less jarring to the body but flappier in crud or junk; more forgiving when going mach 6
-Better on flats, groomers back to the chair, and traverses
-Prone to wheelies which I LOVE!!!! Really fun.
-A bit odd in hop turns on steep chutes... perhaps because you have the huge tip and pintail?
-Hucking is brainless (micro hucks are what I do)
-A tad more playful with my style (or lack thereof) of skiing

Praxis
-Definitely skis different than regular skis or the Pontoon and a bit more of a learning curve but not much
-Dang similar in the pow to the Pontoons: they surf effortlessly
-A bit easier on steep (>50 degrees) hop turns in chutes
-Better in crud and chopped pow with less tip flap.
-Stiffer so a bit more force transmitted to your body in crud but not crazy stiff. 99% of the people here won't care.
-Weird on the flats or groomers but barely tolerable. Pontoons are much better here.
-Hucking is brainless like Pontoons. Very easy to land and stomp.
-Can scrub speed unbelievable fast and change direction in the pow as if you can defy the laws of physics.

Which to buy? I don't know. But you can't go wrong either way. If you are a pig like me you'll have both and enjoy both. Praxis may have a slight advantage for lift-served once things get chopped up.

Which am I taking to AK on April 11th for heli? I don't know.

[Bertier]

Don't compromise. Go full reverse/reverse. Screw sidecut.

Don't fear the lack of sidecut. I was apprehensive as well, but honestly, I don't even think about it. I just go. I just visualize my line and do it. My other fear was "dust on icy death moguls" conditions, but the pivoty-ness and the fact the edge is right underfoot make the ski awesome in those conditions.

I'm in the same boat. I'm a total convert after 30 days on the praxis - I now despise my "everyday skis" and rarely use them even if the conditions aren't prime. If I can find anything soft, anything at all - it was worth bringing the praxis that day. My favorite bonus is leftover crud - you just dance from pile to pile, it's mind blowing.

I am thinking about these hybrids cause being able to stand on an edge while traversing would be appealing, and I'm pretty confident they will still kill pow. With the continuous rocker it could be a perfect resort pow ski. But part of me says screw sidecut, make your 185's into a touring set, and buy 195's.