Post control slide at Mammoth, and how TGR may have saved my life

[hutash]

Below is what I posted on the Mammoth Mountain forums about the post control release on Drop Out 2 (D2) on Saturday. I just wanted to add a few things here since most don't read the MM forums. I could very well have been involved in this slide.

Nearly all of the runs off the top had control releases Saturday mourning, so it was obviously unstable. D2 did not slide, but it is much narrower, and has several large rocks that act to anchor it. It was ski cut multiple times with no cracking et cetera. The four boarders that set it off all hit the trigger zone at the same time. (The trigger zone for all the controlled slides were 10-20 off the top, and this was no different.)

These guys did some really stupid things in their lust for fresh powder. Had they gone in one at a time well spaced out, it may not have gone, but at least it would have only been one, not four people. Three of them also left right after the slide stopped making it hard to tell if everybody was accounted for. I still have the uncomfortable felling somebody is still buried out there, and it probably won't go away until the spring thaw.

I want to thank the maggot collective for stressing avalanche awareness. A few years ago I would have snaked these guys to get the goods, and had them drop the avi on top of me. Because of what I have learned here, and the stimulus to read and learn beyond these boards I knew this was an unsafe situation. So, instead of being in the avalanche, I was able to watch the whole thing from a safe spot, and hopefully contribute to post release safety. I have watched a bunch of slides in ski porn films, but I can tell those of you have have never seen multiple people carried by a slide, that it is a very scary situation. It is very difficult to keep everyone accounted for, think about your own safety, and others with you. In hind sight, I think I did everything right, or at least to the best of my abilities. My two mistakes were; 1-not being able to keep track of all four victims, and 2-I dropped my glove when I started the beacon search, which patrol thought was a clue (I immediately told the first 'troller on the scene I had dropped my glove, so that was quickly remedied.) As for keeping track of victims, I can tell you it is very difficult when so much is happening at once. Had everybody stayed in the area it would have been quickly sorted out.

I am glad I have practiced with my beacon, and at least mentally rehearsed a rescue situation. Most of what I did seemed to be an automatic response. I don't really recall thinking about any of this, I just kind of did it. So I guess what I am saying is practice and review rescues, because when it happens, it just happens, and there is so much to think about and do, and your adrenaline levels are through the roof.

Sorry for such a long winded post, but this is my first real avalanche, and I thought people were going to die. It is very humbling. If anybody has anything to add, or suggestions on what to do differently I would greatly appreciate useful comments. No need to add the boarders were douches, that is obvious.

Thanks

From Mammoth Mountain Forums.

Okay here is the story straight for the horses mouth, so to speak. I was standing on top of the crown and watch the whole slide on D2. I was first down post slide, and did the first beacon search. I was third chair on 23. Four boards, of six in front, went to D2. My partner and I were on skis, so we good easily have snaked the line in D2 while the boarders were buckling in, but by the frantic way they were putting on their boards I knew they would have dropped right on top of me, so we waited. We had planned on skiing it one at a time, with a ski cut to safe zone, et cetera. We watched as all four of them hit D2 at the same time. They were just a few feet apart, and were all in the trigger zone at the same time. It all seemed to happen in slow motion. What at first appeared to be some slough, quickly grew into a moderate since avalanche. We watched trying to keep sight of all four of them, but toward the bottom of the slide two of them started to go under, then pop up again a couple of times. It was very difficult to keep track of 4 people two of which would disappear momentarily. I lost track of one of them, and thought there was a total burial, but could not be sure. My partner wasn't sure either. We both skied around the crown from opposite sides to avoid any hang fire, but because of the rocks we had to enter the slide patch, or go the long way around through D1 or D3, which means taking our eyes of the position of possible victims. I enter D2 skiers right just before the rocks, and dropped off of an approximate 2 foot crown onto some exposed rocks. I wouldn't say it ran to ground, but it is expose more rocks. I carefully skied to the deposition zone, and started a beacon search, not that I had much hope they were wearing beacons. Once I got to the area I last saw the possible buried victim I started probing. The first patroller was on seen within 4-5 minutes, with two more there within another 1-2 minutes. We were trying to get information from the other partially buried victim, but he was very stressed, and nearly incoherent, (not that I blame him since he went completely under and suck a lung full of snow.)

Here is were things really ***** me off. Three of the people who rode the slide simply got up and left. The victim who stayed wasn't sure were is two buddies were, nor the third boarder who dropped in at the same time as he did. When patrol talked to him, and he started to calm down he called his friends, and at least two of them were accounted for. I still can't believe those idiots left the scene. It would have make everything so much easier, not to mention they left their buddy sitting in the snow very shaken up. Fortunately there were 2-3 'trollers on chair 23 who saw the whole thing, and they were able to account for all four people, even though I still was not totally comfortable that there was still a possible burial.

A 'troller showed up with the Recco receiver within about 10 minutes, and came up with nothing, (except for the units I wear on my boots, so it does work.) King the Mammoth avi dogs was on the scene at about 30 minutes post slide. It was fun to watch him at work. King was having a throughly good time working the field. He got a hit, and they dug up the boarders beanie. King was really happy with that. No other hits, so I felt comfortable there was no burial, and finally left the scene.

Patrol did an excellent job getting the mountain open. Was it 100% safe? No, but it never will be. They ski cut D2 at least twice. I don't know if they bombed it, but I suspect they did. Could they have done more? I don't know, but I would not try to second guess them, since all I see is a very professional patrol that does an excellent job over all. So over all, I think Thatguy's comments are completely off base. As we were standing around chatting about post control releases, the 'troller I was talking made a great comment. He said "The only way we can guarantee that there will be no avalanches is to never open the top of the mountain." As has been said before, "This ain't Disneyland."

[SchralphMacchio]

Way to keep your head up man - thumbs up for sure. It's good to hear that with that practice you went into automatic response during your search. I have practiced a bit but I need to practice more, no doubt.

I beep every day inbounds, powder or not. My buddies think it's a bit over the top, but they don't really give me shit for it because they know that a) all I have to lose are batteries, b) you never know what could happen ... This is the second time I've read this season in California where a mag with a beacon was one of the first guys on the scene initiating rescue procedures.

[Atlas Q. Powmonger]

Wow - this is the first I heard of that slide. New rule for me - beacon on all powder days. Why not since I have it anyway? There have been a lot of post-control slides this year and the top of Mammoth slides all the time, especially drop out/wipe out.

[madturtle]

King was having a throughly good time working the field. He got a hit, and they dug up the boarders beanie. King was really happy with that. No other hits, so I felt comfortable there was no burial, and finally left the scene.

As we were standing around chatting about post control releases, the 'troller I was talking made a great comment. He said "The only way we can guarantee that there will be no avalanches is to never open the top of the mountain." As has been said before, "This ain't Disneyland."

Sounds like King was on his A game for sure. Get him some bacon. And props to you for keeping your head together both before, during and after the slide. Most of all for keeping a good avy head before the slide, that's the real trick on a pow day expecially 1st chair on a pow day

I'm not sure how I feel about the this ain't Disney land quote though. I obviously want the whole mtn open as much or more than the next guy and don't know the perfect balance btwn that and trying to guarantee no inbounds avys. I don't necessarily have a problem w/ resorts going to a more european "at your own risk" type of control but that needs to be much better publicized. Expecting joe skier to have and be familiar w/ avy gear and protocols is not going to work in the short term. Even people familiar w/ proper bc protocol are often not keeping their eyes open to the same degree at the resorts and probably not as knowledgeable about snow science in bounds as they are out of bounds. Anyway my $.02.

[Bob_Ondeeznuts]

could someone pls summarize that post? way too long

[Long duc dong]

Wow. Glad everything worked out OK. A reminder of just how much peril we are in even in bounds.

[smitchell333]

Good for you for doing the right thing and acting as a 1st responder.

Three of the people who rode the slide simply got up and left. The victim who stayed wasn't sure were is two buddies were, nor the third boarder who dropped in at the same time as he did. When patrol talked to him, and he started to calm down he called his friends, and at least two of them were accounted for. I still can't believe those idiots left the scene. It would have make everything so much easier, not to mention they left their buddy sitting in the snow very shaken up.

Typical "no friends on a powder day" bullshit. This is why that oft-used saying is a pile of shit and those who use it are dumb-ass fucktards. I wouldn't ski with people who would rather get 1st tracks then make sure I'm safe.

[ski_pdx]

could someone pls summarize that post? way too long

JONG......

[hutash]

I'm not sure how I feel about the this ain't Disney land quote though. I obviously want the whole mtn open as much or more than the next guy and don't know the perfect balance btwn that and trying to guarantee no inbounds avys. I don't necessarily have a problem w/ resorts going to a more european "at your own risk" type of control but that needs to be much better publicized. Expecting joe skier to have and be familiar w/ avy gear and protocols is not going to work in the short term. Even people familiar w/ proper bc protocol are often not keeping their eyes open to the same degree at the resorts and probably not as knowledgeable about snow science in bounds as they are out of bounds. Anyway my $.02.

I should have been clearer. The "ain't Disney" quote was from Rusty, and just pertains to the danger of skiing in general, and had nothing to do with the 'troller or this slide.

could someone pls summarize that post? way too long

Read USA Today, or watch CNN if you like your news in sound bite formate.

Summary: Post control Avalanche at Mammoth. Four boarders got caught. No one died, including me

[Gebster]

Good job on taking something benifical from this site and then executing when shit was hitting the fan!

[GoEhuge]

Props for the clear headed actions, both pre and post release. It's super hard to hold back and be cautious on resort pow day, but it looks like you made a smart decision. Glad everyone turned out okay, even if they weren't making the best choices.

[barnescli]

Glad you were using your head, i can't understand stand how you could leave you friends after a slide. I would be seriously pissed, especially if they didn't leave to get help.

[Mr. Altagirl]

Nice work keeping your head about you. That is amazing that the three guys rode off without their buddies.

[Mach Looney]

I want to thank the maggot collective for stressing avalanche awareness. A few years ago I would have snaked these guys to get the goods, and had them drop the avi on top of me.

I don't know if I would have been as restrained in going after the powder as you were. Way to exercise superior judgment. And thanks for further stressing avalanche awareness.

[comish]

Can I ask a question here. How many post-control slides have happened in the near recent past (call it last few years) at other high avy prone resorts. In-bounds in the USA.

Thinking Squaw, Alpine, Baker, JH, Alta, Bird, etc

I think I have heard of one at Squaw, one at Baker, one at ABasin, others? Doesn't matter if someone was caught or not. How many slides have happened that are confirmed in-bounds "post-control" releases.

I have other thoughts on this issue, but I'm curious about the above question.

[Snow Dog]

One on Blackcomb, skier's left of Blackcomb glacier.

One on Whistler in a permanently closed area -- skier caused.

[madturtle]

Can I ask a question here. How many post-control slides have happened in the near recent past (call it last few years) at other high avy prone resorts. In-bounds in the USA.

Thinking Squaw, Alpine, Baker, JH, Alta, Bird, etc

I think I have heard of one at Squaw, one at Baker, one at ABasin, others? Doesn't matter if someone was caught or not. How many slides have happened that are confirmed in-bounds "post-control" releases.

I have other thoughts on this issue, but I'm curious about the above question.

Off the top of my head there was

this one at Mammoth and
another one at mammoth about 6 weeks ago involving Mitch and Big Tim.
third one at Mammoth 2(?) seasons ago closed the mtn but no burials

One at squaw in the last storm cycle 3-4 weeks ago

One at K-wood in the last storm cycle where BSS was 1st on the scene

Tyrone said a big wet slide went by him at K-wood somewhere below the cirque(?) that would've been trouble if it caught him 10'-20' away. Not sure if that was reported officially.

Big one from above the resort near Vegas, Charleston(?), that pulled a kid off the chair 2-3 seasons ago

Baker this season (?)

I'm not familiar w/ the a-basin slide

The one in CO where the TX kids videoed themselves and put it on Utube but I think that was a closed area so probably doesn't count.

[SkiOrDie]

Can I ask a question here. How many post-control slides have happened in the near recent past (call it last few years) at other high avy prone resorts. In-bounds in the USA.

Thinking Squaw, Alpine, Baker, JH, Alta, Bird, etc

I think I have heard of one at Squaw, one at Baker, one at ABasin, others? Doesn't matter if someone was caught or not. How many slides have happened that are confirmed in-bounds "post-control" releases.

I have other thoughts on this issue, but I'm curious about the above question.

Pillars of Pompeii in Dear Valet went about three years ago - 2 in the afternoon. No one hurt except about a dozen Aspen trees that were Roots-Up after that.

[Gebster]

This might be a lame question that has already been asked, but is the increased amount of post-control slide that we all hear about a result of improved means of information distribution such as the www, or are we flat out having a increased number of in-bounds post-control slides?

[mammothmtnsnowman]

More Fun Before they opened today!

[The Dad]

Rumor through the grapevine was that Squaw had another post-control slide yesterday, resulting in broken bones but no fatalities.

I triggered three small slides yesterday, the largest with about a nine-inch crown. Of course, that was our job for the afternoon -- ski cut whatever would slide, figure out where there was instability, pack down what we could. Even with that being the intent, feeling that amount of snow slide out from under me (I stayed above) was eerie and disquieting.

[Steven S. Dallas]

More Fun Before they opened today!

Are those bombed?

Gebster: global warming causes greater and more dramatic fluctuations in temperature, which leads to less stable snowpack. It also creates stronger winds, due to increased water vapor volatility in the atmosphere, which in turn results in more windloading. It is for this reason that all new SUVs are required to be equipped with beacons, avalungs, and a week's supply of beef jerky.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

Props for the clear headed actions, both pre and post release. It's super hard to hold back and be cautious on resort pow day, but it looks like you made a smart decision. Glad everyone turned out okay, even if they weren't making the best choices.

^ What he said. Gotta stay aware. It's tough to do when you're enveloped in the moment, but milliseconds count in the clutch. Great job.

P.S. I just love when resorts downplay the severity of inbounds slides by refering to them as "post control releases."

It's called an avalanche. There's really no way to soften it up.

[Helldawg]

could someone pls summarize that post? way too long

Yes (troll), here's the summary, especially for you...

Ski wherever you want, regardless of avi conditions. Someone will find you. Not that you'd need them to. cuz you rip!

[Arty50]

To further answer Comish's question:

I rode an inbounds avy at Kirkwood 4 years ago and set another one off 2-3 years ago that would have taken someone out if it weren't for my booming voice.

From what I understand, small, skier triggered avalanches happen frequently at the Wood.

Ty's was a natural release in the Cirque. BSS's in Pali probably had to do with an earthquake.

A year or two ago, a good sized chunk of Headwall ripped at Squaw. Alpine's had their fair share.

I think the seemingly increased frequency of this just has to do with more avenues of information being available today.

Edit: Also, post-control release is a fair term. I think it's important to note that control work was done on the area when you're doing the post-op on the how and why. Analyzing what was done and what happened allows you to learn from it, which is the only way you can get better. One of the important lessons I took away from my avy training was that you can try to think of everything, but sometimes you miss that one critical piece. Even guys who have made avy science their profession occasionally make that one mistake and die. That's one of the reasons traveling in groups can be so important. Maybe someone else notices something that the others don't which ends up being a key piece of info.