Obama...Kennedy...MLK Jr.

**MassLiberal** · 02-21-2008, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by lemon boy

I wasn't really going to get into this thread but this post really made me stop and have a thought or two. What you've outlined above is exactly what's fucked up about this country's government and not just the democratic or republican parties. Seriously dude, Americans don't want to get back at Republicans as much as they want to get back on the right track.

I don't however hate HRC, I just don't really like her that much and I really dislike the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton dynastic element to her candidacy, it is to me a perfect marker for some of our system's fundamental problems right now.

I understand how you feel, believe me, I do. After I saw Barack Obama's floor speech from the convention in 2004, I believed that he was the man to bring about the changes we need and move forward in a spirit of bipartisanship. But the problem is that within our system of government bipartisanship has almost never been attained, and has never been sustained for any significant period of time. While I'd like to believe that Barack Obama can change the way politics have worked in this country for the past 230 years, I don't believe that it is necessarily possible. If he is able to do it, my hat will be off to him and he will be considered the greatest president to have ever lived. But he has to fight the very nature of humanity to do so.

AlpineJunkie · 02-21-2008, 01:32 PM

Why is partisanship such a bad thing??? I mean it's like it would be best to get rid of the three branches of government since they all work against each other instead of having a uniform single voice and same agenda where all the power can be gathered at one source. Is it just me that sees the value in having balance to politics?

**lemon boy** · 02-21-2008, 01:36 PM

Mass--
If he tries and fails at bipartisanship* nothing will have been lost. He can always fall back on partisanship. But if it works, if he can actually pull it off well then…so much the better.

*casting it as bipartisanship is actually partisan positioning. Not every issue can be or should be divided squarely along one axis.

I'm not too wild about anybody running right now nor am I just rabidly opposed to anybody either although I'm definitely:

BHO
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HRC
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JMC

I just wish that fuckstick huckabee would finally drop out, what a disgrace.

**Rontele** · 02-21-2008, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

I try my hardest not to be arrogant, but when you invest so much in a cause, it is sometimes difficult to beat back some of the flaws which lie underneath my skin.

That was more directed your unbending Red Sox support.

**MassLiberal** · 02-21-2008, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by AlpineJunkie

Why is partisanship such a bad thing??? I mean it's like it would be best to get rid of the three branches of government since they all work against each other instead of having a uniform single voice and same agenda where all the power can be gathered at one source. Is it just mean that sees the value in having balance to politics?

I don't think that partisanship is necessarily a bad thing. I causes people to pick and choose what goals they want to achieve and to fight for them.

**Crud's Uncle** · 02-21-2008, 04:20 PM

RFK, MLK, how about Ron Brown and Vince Foster?

jus sayin

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 02-21-2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by skibuminwyo

Damn, that is impressive. And we were all stupid enough to "vote" for a second term of the bush.

edit: whether we wanted to or not.

It CRUSHED my political spirit.

Worst part was, within 3 months of his reelection everyone and the media and citizens had a fucking Epiphany;"who is this evil, moron we reelected?"
...and where was that "youth vote" in the '04's?
One terming bush would have been the best way 2 screw his coveted "legacy" ...and save the world

**The Dad** · 02-21-2008, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Crud's Uncle

RFK, MLK, how about Ron Brown and Vince Foster?

jus sayin

Don't forget LBJ, Ike, and of course, Tina.

WTF are you jus sayin?

**powder11** · 02-21-2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

I don't think that partisanship is necessarily a bad thing. I causes people to pick and choose what goals they want to achieve and to fight for them.

I'm tired of partisanship and polarizing candidates. The US vs. THEM mentality is what will cost Billary the nomination. Nobody wants to hear about right wing conspiracies anymore. People want change even if that means going with the unknown and I'm really tired of the same old shit coming out of the Billary campaign.

**Crud's Uncle** · 02-21-2008, 05:58 PM

I am sayin that Obama may not make it to the convention.

**MassLiberal** · 02-21-2008, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by powder11

I'm tired of partisanship and polarizing candidates. The US vs. THEM mentality is what will cost Billary the nomination. Nobody wants to hear about right wing conspiracies anymore. People want change even if that means going with the unknown and I'm really tired of the same old shit coming out of the Billary campaign.

Will you please stop using sexist bullshit lines like "Billary"

Partisanship isn't going away. If you think the republicans are going to stop their attacks solely because Obama is preaching unity, then your an idiot.

AlpineJunkie · 02-21-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

If you think the republicans are going to stop their attacks solely because Obama is preaching unity, then your an idiot.

Kumbaya my lord, kumabya, kumbaya my lord, kumbaya

**RootSkier** · 02-21-2008, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

your an idiot.

This one is always good for a laugh.

Is 'Billary' sexist? I don't know. I mean, she IS running her campaign based on the "experienced" meme, and since she has only held one elected office...so, well, you know...it might not be fair, but I don't see why it's sexist.

**MassLiberal** · 02-21-2008, 07:02 PM

You honestly don't think it's sexist to imply that a woman is nothing more than an appendage of her husband?

Hillary was far more accomplished than Bill ever was when he took the Presidency. Hell, she was on the Watergate committee at 27. Pretty fucking impressive if you ask me.

AlpineJunkie · 02-21-2008, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Hillary was far more accomplished than Bill ever was when he took the Presidency. Hell, she was on the Watergate committee at 27. Pretty fucking impressive if you ask me.

But her tits are saggy.

**MassLiberal** · 02-21-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by AlpineJunkie

But her tits are saggy.

That happens with age.

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 02-21-2008, 07:09 PM

"Watergate" (and subsequent appearance of impropriaties) and "lewinsky" are the 2 biggest codewords 4 why my mom hates Hillary.

**MassLiberal** · 02-21-2008, 07:21 PM

Why, your mom thinks that Hillary was riffling through the Dem office at the hotel or paid Monica to blow bill?

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 02-21-2008, 07:33 PM

U wouldn't believe the shit my mom thinks, so ill informed I stopped discussing political isssues with her, every time we talk it goes all the way back 2 JFK was having sex yadayada
...my point being who gives a shit what happened in the 60's? ( exept the vietnam war, and I actually grew up believing and hoping we learned somthing from that sad event. (notsomuch)
She has no real grasp on currant affairs.

Shes pissed Hillary stood by Bill after lewinsky. felt it was a polical move + she thinks Hil is a lesbo

I know...it makes my head hurt

**skibuminwyo** · 02-21-2008, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Why, your mom thinks that Hillary was riffling through the Dem office at the hotel or paid Monica to blow bill?

I think any woman with a brain would have paid to have someone else deal with his...... organ.

**powder11** · 02-21-2008, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

Will you please stop using sexist bullshit lines like "Billary"

Partisanship isn't going away. If you think the republicans are going to stop their attacks solely because Obama is preaching unity, then your an idiot.

I don't really care about Republican attacks on Democrats, why even validate their points by acknowledging the shit splatter? The last thing this country needs is more finger pointing and blame games. Billary (they are one in the same) had their run and the thought of those two back in the White House makes me ill. Im under no delusions of Obama being the 2nd coming of Christ, but I'd like to see a clean slate in the White House.

Maybe you should quit arguing like a twit on the internet and do something productive for your candidate

**mr_gyptian** · 02-21-2008, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by MassLiberal

You honestly don't think it's sexist to imply that a woman is nothing more than an appendage of her husband?

Hillary was far more accomplished than Bill ever was when he took the Presidency. Hell, she was on the Watergate committee at 27. Pretty fucking impressive if you ask me.

wasn't he a Rhode's Scholar?

A governor?

and she is running on her experience as first lady. How many cabinet level meetings was she in on?

as much as I hate him, or maybe the reason I hate him. If Bill Clinton hadn't pulled the dem's to the center in 1992 the Democratic Party would have as much influence on politics as the Libertarians. that's fact.

**PNWbrit** · 02-21-2008, 08:17 PM

Masslib - instead of arguing over silly points of misogyny how about talking about McCain and the apparent campaign finance shell game that he's got going on.

That shit is interesting - lines of credit secured on federal funding, Election Commission unable to raise a quorum, future funding issues he'll face, his ~$300K personal amex debt.

Surely that's a goldmine you should be plundering for us?

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 02-21-2008, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Masslib - instead of arguing over silly points of misogyny how about talking about McCain and the apparent campaign finance shell game that he's got going on.

That shit is interesting - lines of credit secured on federal funding, Election Commission unable to raise a quorum, future funding issues he'll face.

Surely that's a goldmine you should be plundering for us?

NONO its still dem on dem takedowns till after-ish the conventions

**rideit** · 02-22-2008, 12:28 AM

Hey Schindler...did you read this?

(Good tin-foil material, but hey, this is a crazy, crazy world...)
Report: Security relaxed at Obama speech

Published: Feb. 21, 2008 at 6:27 PM
Print story Email to a friend Font size

ALLAS, Feb. 21 (UPI) -- The Secret Service told Dallas police to stop screening for weapons while people were still arriving at a campaign rally for Barack Obama, a report said.

Police stopped checking people for weapons at the front gates of Reunion Arena more than an hour before the Democratic presidential hopeful appeared on stage Wednesday, the Fort Worth (Texas) Star-Telegram reported.

Police said the order to stop using metal detectors and checking purses and laptop bags constituted a security lapse, the newspaper reported.

Dallas Deputy Police Chief T.W. Lawrence -- who heads the department's homeland security and special operations divisions -- told the Star-Telegram the order had been intended to speed up seating of the more than 17,000 people who came to hear the candidate speak.

Lawrence said he was concerned about the large number of people being let in without being screened, but that the crowd seemed "friendly," the newspaper said.

Several Dallas police officers -- speaking on condition of anonymity because the order came from federal officers -- told the newspaper it was worrying to see so many people get it without even a cursory inspection.

The Star-Telegram said the Secret Service did not return a call seeking comment.