The Importance of First Chair

**RootSkier** · 02-11-2008, 07:40 PM

The chairlift thread got me thinking....

Last week, it was just another shitty 12" report at 5:30 am, it was nuking with another 5" since, and I was on first chair (not hard where I ski), when I got into a conversation with a general from the old guard. He was the real deal, 50+, totally ripping skier, and deadly serious about the importance of it all.

It makes all the difference in the world, he said, to be on first chair, in a whiteout, with no tracks for reference. To feel your way through, not sure what the consistency will be, and all alone in the whiteness.

I agreed.

That's pretty much what it's all about. In my twisted little world, first chair can make all the difference between a simply epic day and a day that you will remember for the rest of your life.

This thread is not about the backcountry.

**montanaskier** · 02-11-2008, 07:46 PM

I remember first chair days at Big Sky. First chair on Swifty was no guarantee that you would win the race to the triple. Then no guarantee that you would win the race to the tram. First box, that was the real reward. There are those days when first chair is what it is all about for sure.

**dookeyXXX** · 02-11-2008, 07:48 PM

While I certainly understand the allure of "First Chair" and scoring untracked lines, I think there's a delicate balance in terms of getting them.

I was in Utah recently and ghastly amazed at how aggro folks got in terms of getting the first chair and scoring the untracked. After being pushed, shoved, and yelled at all I could think about was "It's only snow ferchristsakes." I mean locals, who experience Utah Blower, face shots, and white room activity on the regular were fiending for it like malnutritioned kids fighting for a piece of candy from a pinata. It was borderline ridiculous.

I actually think people place so much emphasis on getting "first chair" and "untracked lines" that they forget to really enjoy and lap up the experience.

If given the option of being a total dick and slighting my fellow man in favor of first chair/untracked lines or skiing a semi-tracked run that's still overflowing with leftover fresh, I'll gladly choose the latter any day. I like to remain chill and keep the karma flowing. No need to be rabid and frenzied, it throws you off-balance.

**MOHSHSIHd** · 02-11-2008, 07:50 PM

First chairs are amazing, but it totally depends on where you are skiing. I have had days where I didn't start skiing till almost 10 and still skied untracked all day.

**RootSkier** · 02-11-2008, 07:51 PM

"Rabid and frenzied" around here means showing up at 9:05 for a 9:30 opening.

**bostonski** · 02-11-2008, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

First chairs are amazing, but it totally depends on where you are skiing. I have had days where I didn't start skiing till almost 10 and still skied untracked all day.

I agree MOHSHEHDSHIDH. First chair at a small resort like MRG means alot more than first chair/tram at Jackson. I mean you might get one shot at skiing an untracked Paradise on a pow day at MRG but could ski untracked Hobacks all day.

**RootSkier** · 02-11-2008, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by bostonski

but could ski untracked Hobacks all day.

I lolrofmao'd

**bostonski** · 02-11-2008, 08:13 PM

Alright clearly I didnt mean complete untracked hobacks.....but you'd find untracked lines. It seems like its a matter of skiable acres.

**DrGonzo** · 02-11-2008, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by dookey67

I was in Utah recently and ghastly amazed at how aggro folks got in terms of getting the first chair and scoring the untracked. After being pushed, shoved, and yelled at all I could think about was "It's only snow ferchristsakes." I mean locals, who experience Utah Blower, face shots, and white room activity on the regular were fiending for it like malnutritioned kids fighting for a piece of candy from a pinata. It was borderline ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, and they're aggro because they probably waited an hour to get into the canyon, took another 30 minutes to get up the canyon, plus all of the time spent waiting for first chair. Not to mention the waiting forall the avy-controlled terrain like Mineral Basin and Road to Provo (and their Alta equivalents) to open, or the 30 minute wait in the return lift line for everything after the first chairs.

It's a stupid thing to bitch about, and I'm not bitching, but there is so much competition for fresh tracks that a lot of people forget that skiing is supposed to be fun.

**cdlv** · 02-11-2008, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by DrGonzo

It is ridiculous, and they're aggro because they probably waited an hour to get into the canyon, took another 30 minutes to get up the canyon, plus all of the time spent waiting for first chair. Not to mention the waiting forall the avy-controlled terrain like Mineral Basin and Road to Provo (and their Alta equivalents) to open, or the 30 minute wait in the return lift line for everything after the first chairs.
it's a stupid thing to bitch about, and I'm not bitching, but there is so much competition for fresh tracks that a lot of people forget that skiing is supposed to be fun.

exactly. first chairs are a holy magical thing that should not be taken lightly.

**Lloyd Christmas** · 02-11-2008, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by dookey67

While I certainly understand the allure of "First Chair" and scoring untracked lines, I think there's a delicate balance in terms of getting them.

I was in Utah recently and ghastly amazed at how aggro folks got in terms of getting the first chair and scoring the untracked. After being pushed, shoved, and yelled at all I could think about was "It's only snow ferchristsakes." I mean locals, who experience Utah Blower, face shots, and white room activity on the regular were fiending for it like malnutritioned kids fighting for a piece of candy from a pinata. It was borderline ridiculous.

I actually think people place so much emphasis on getting "first chair" and "untracked lines" that they forget to really enjoy and lap up the experience.

If given the option of being a total dick and slighting my fellow man in favor of first chair/untracked lines or skiing a semi-tracked run that's still overflowing with leftover fresh, I'll gladly choose the latter any day. I like to remain chill and keep the karma flowing. No need to be rabid and frenzied, it throws you off-balance.

Well said.

**Deep Days** · 02-11-2008, 10:50 PM

Days when I'm really tired and am still committed to getting up at 5 am to get first chair at Loveland when they report 14" or whatever, sometimes I think to myself "damn, do I wish there wasn't so much competition for this..." I guess the competition makes it that much more rewarding, but it does seem to get out of hand sometimes. Definitely agree that the aggro-ness of competition makes it a little less fun.

I remember the days when I'd be in Park City lining up for first chair on Payday at 8 am when it hadn't snowed in 2 weeks (like when I was 14 or 15)... The lifties always smiled and/or laughed at me.

**tahoegnar420** · 02-11-2008, 10:57 PM

First chair or funi car at squaw means everything on some days....

First chair at alpine during the week is more like a safety meeting than a rush for the goods.

**here2day** · 02-11-2008, 11:11 PM

We've all experienced the greed. It's like an addictive drug. The high is unf'ing believable. I want more, immediately. After getting first tracks as I wait my turn in the next lift line watching the goods disappear I get nauseous, anxious, I feel the agro. At that moment I'd do stupid stuff to get it again.

I got lucky last week. Right place at the right time. Got to lay first right over a spot where I'd screwed up 2.5 years ago and needed a sled ride to get down. It closed a bad chapter in my life. I didn't have to be a jerk to get the line but...

I guess we need to cut each other some slack on these days.

**Woodsy** · 02-11-2008, 11:17 PM

first chair is overrated, but people gotta spray about something.....
every mountain worth its salt has multiple drool worthy first runs if you know where you are going, as long as you are in the mix of the line; you will be fine,
and hell free refill days are my fav anyway.....

**iceman** · 02-11-2008, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by cdlv

exactly. first chairs are a holy magical thing that should not be taken lightly.

So is sleep.

**Mofro261** · 02-11-2008, 11:31 PM

I've never been too concerned with first chair. Getting there for the opening bell, yes. Scoring one of the first 10-15 chairs,yeah, I aim for somewhere in there. But in all honesty I'm probably going to pass most of those guys in front of me before we get half way down anyway. It is a little tough watching a hill get totally devoured when it gets super crowded. Most of the time I try not to let my aggro side slip out and take the enjoyment out of what I love doing so much. I do love the storm skiing.

**cptpowder** · 02-11-2008, 11:31 PM

I thank god I live in a place where I dont have to worry about fighting people to score the first chair. Looking at those pics of lift lines in UT and CO makes me cringe. I can ski untracked gnar all day and not stress. I heart NM.
Oh wait stay away nothing to see here.

**nutcase** · 02-11-2008, 11:34 PM

Most people clamoring for first chair just rip down the same runs the patrollers have already laid tracks on. If you have a halfway decent mountain and have been there more than twice you can usually find plenty of untracked runs, sometimes even hours after first chair

That said it is a pretty magical experience.

**cptpowder** · 02-11-2008, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by nutcase

Most people clamoring for first chair just rip down the same runs the patrollers have already laid tracks on. If you have a halfway decent mountain and have been there more than twice you can usually find plenty of untracked runs, sometimes even hours after first chair

That said it is a pretty magical experience.

Well said nutcase. So true.

**Baconzoo** · 02-11-2008, 11:38 PM

I'd beat someone's Mama down for pow.

**powder11** · 02-11-2008, 11:42 PM

At W/B 1st chair up from the base can make the difference for your entire day if you know the proper sequence of lifts and lines to ski. Being ahead of the herd means you could be 1st on pretty much everything as it opens and that can translate into fresh tracks almost all day long.

However, 1st chair doesn't guaranty anything other than first fresh tracks off that particular lift if you don't have a plan of attack geared towards whats happening that particular day. Lift/line openings are different depending on wind/snowfall/AC, so you need to have a matrix of how those events will play out.

Some days I nail the sequence and its truly magical, but others I choose poorly or get hung up on a dud/lost bomb and have fun being aggro chasing it with the masses. The gray beards have it all mapped out to a science quickly calculating all the variables on the spot and their habits should be carefully analyzed for maximum powder enjoyment.

**summit** · 02-11-2008, 11:50 PM

I *hate* the competition of it and never work to actually be on the first chairs. If I am at the lift when it opens, that is good enough for me. Fuck waking up early to stand in line.

**adrenalated** · 02-11-2008, 11:55 PM

I just show up right after the initial shitshow dies down, then choose my lines wisely. Given the amount of untracked pow I seem to score without having to deal with the aggro folks, I think I'm happy with this method.

**cascadianwarrior** · 02-12-2008, 12:26 AM

Mofro said it; anywhere in the first 10-15 is fine by me. I'm usually a few chairs behind some old dudes in their 70's who head right for the groomers so they don't count.