Obama vs. McCain: All you need to know

[RootSkier]

Obama:



McCain:

[SunCuntry]

So Barack's plans are what? Change what? Change it how? I'd like some explanations.

[ewat25]

So Barack's plans are what? Change what? Change it how? I'd like some explanations.

It's politics. You won't really know until he takes office.

[RootSkier]

So Barack's plans are what? Change what? Change it how? I'd like some explanations.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

[CUBUCK]

So Barack's plans are what? Change what? Change it how? I'd like some explanations.

Don't forget hope I think there is hope mixed in with that change.

[ill-advised strategy]

So Barack's plans are what? Change what? Change it how? I'd like some explanations.

maybe you're a nice guy, or gal, or whatever so I'll try to be nice: every candidate for major office always has a "website" that spells out their "platform".

in this case it's the 1st link if you "google" this candidate's name. on the main page of the website, the path you follow is titled "issues".

happy reading corky!

edit: italics and quotes

[YourSupremeExcellency]

Yeah that's what it all comes down to

[SunCuntry]

maybe you're a nice guy, or gal, or whatever so I'll try to be nice: every candidate for major office always has a "website" that spells out their "platform".

in this case it's the 1st link if you "google" this candidate's name. on the main page of the website, the path you follow is titled "issues".

happy reading corky!

edit: italics and quotes

I don't have an internet connection.

[BmillsSkier]

So Barack's plans are what? Change what? Change it how? I'd like some explanations.

I brought this up a while ago and no Obama supporter, or supporter of anyone else for that matter, could answer that question.

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108096

[RootSkier]

I brought this up a while ago and no Obama supporter, or supporter of anyone else for that matter, could answer that question.

Or maybe we just refuse to address Fox News talking points. Do you have a specific question about a specific issue, or are you just going to keep repeating the lie that he has no experience?

You obviously don't have to agree with him on any or all issues, but at least make a specific argument, instead of pretending there is nothing to his politics.

See the link above....and then come back and let's have a meaningful discussion.

[newschoolerz]

^^^

Is this your first election that you can participate in too? I like checking msg boards to get info, as biased as it can be, on candidates and I really like Obama as a person, but all I see is anger like this when someone questions him. WTF?


Aside from his own website, what can you tell me about him. Like I said, I really like him.

[BmillsSkier]

Or maybe we just refuse to address Fox News talking points. Do you have a specific question about a specific issue, or are you just going to keep repeating the lie that he has no experience?

You obviously don't have to agree with him on any or all issues, but at least make a specific argument, instead of pretending there is nothing to his politics.

See the link above....and then come back and let's have a meaningful discussion.

Easy junior.

If you weren't so quick to judge me as a fox news watcher, and I'm assuming you'd drop your favorite buzzword neocon, you'd see I had an honest question about what he defines his brand of "Change" to be. No where in there did I even come close to mentioning inexperience.

The problem with people like you is that if anyone questions your guy, you instantly lump them in a large, all-encompassing group of people that you perceive hate you and your guy. Breathe, then post.

Tone down the vitriol and maybe then someone can have a "meaningful discussion" with you.

[Fear Of A Flat Planet]

^^^

Is this your first election that you can participate in too? I like checking msg boards to get info, as biased as it can be, on candidates and I really like Obama as a person, but all I see is anger like this when someone questions him. WTF?


Aside from his own website, what can you tell me about him. Like I said, I really like him.

sorry, kid.. that's not anger. it's debate. i don't know how you perceive the post before you to express anger. disagreement/debate yes. anger no.

[YourSupremeExcellency]

^^^
Like I said, I really like him.

I like him too. I think he's seem to be a real god sincere guy, with a lovely wife and two great kids (which you don't see much with politicians), but being a good guy, great husband, and awesome father does not make for a great president. The fact is he has stayed away from the specifics on everything and has kept everything vague. He has no plan. He has no specifics. Hope is not a plan. And neither is change. Every single election on both sides has their Obama. They scream "change change change" "hope hope hope" "Washington is bad!" and then win or lose after the election is over they don't know what the hell it was that they wanted to change. He seems to think that if you just show up at the Oval Office with good intentions then everything will just automatically just change for you and things will all start getter better. Until he goes on a limb and says WHAT he is going to change and more importantly HOW he is going to change it then he is not a serious candidate imo.

[RootSkier]

Is this your first election that you can participate in too?
.......
Aside from his own website, what can you tell me about him. Like I said, I really like him.

This will be my third presidential election.

A few things I like about Obama:

He is the real deal when he talks about change. He passed up incredible job opportunities to be a poorly paid community organizer right out of college, and I think he truly believes in energizing the grassroots to get out there and actually do something.

He was a Constitutional law professor at U of Chicago, an excellent school. He understands the Constitution and I believe he will repair much of the damage that the current administration has done to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution.

He was against the Iraq war from the beginning. Sure, many will argue that he had nothing to lose since he was a state senator at the time, but at least he didn't buckle to political expediency like Clinton did. And yes, he has voted to continue funding, but I believe he is the best person to get us out of that fucking mess.

He is honest. I trust him...as many others do, apparantly. He has been consistent on the issues.

He is an incredible public speaker that rallies people to his side. He is very likeable, and I think having a black man with a strange name will do wonders to heal some our racial issues both here and abroad. I think we need to change the image of the US abroad and I believe he can do this better than any of the other candidates.

Let's face it, the president does not make policy on his own. He must work with others, and his job is partly to be a cheerleader, and to make people feel good about themselves and their country. In this, Obama has no equal.

Are there things I don't like? Sure, a couple. He is slightly more hawkish than I would prefer, but this is probably a good thing for the general election. He fucked up by having the gay baiter Donny McClurkin at a rally, but he is solid on LGBT issues. His talk of compromise is off-putting to some hard line democrats, but overall, I think bringing people to the table is a net positive.

[YourSupremeExcellency]

sorry, kid.. that's not anger. it's debate. i don't know how you perceive the post before you to express anger. disagreement/debate yes. anger no.

See NS, the fact that you're just an immature kid isn't being hidden from anyone. Everyone can tell just based on your stupid little "your mom" comebacks. So before we emotionally scar you for life go back to NS where you are safe.

[summit]

Obama:


McCain:


IOW they both suck since I'm:

[RootSkier]

Easy junior.

If you weren't so quick to judge me as a fox news watcher, and I'm assuming you'd drop your favorite buzzword neocon, you'd see I had an honest question about what he defines his brand of "Change" to be.

You are right, I apologize.

Let's talk about the issues...see my post just above.

As far as the "change" issue, the most obvious is that he is trying to get away from demonizing the other side, whether the other side is the Clintons or the Republicans. The politics that declares the other side is all bad is bullshit and most of us are sick of it. That is it on the most basic level...however, there is no doubt that Obama is very much a progressive liberal and will stick to those guns. His strength is selling progressivism to non-progressives, and making them happy to support it.

[newschoolerz]

So before we emotionally scare you for life

scare me? And how, dress up like this?

[Arty50]

For those who say Obama has no substance:

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...m/breakingnews

[cloudpeak]

He was a Constitutional law professor at U of Chicago, an excellent school. He understands the Constitution and I believe he will repair much of the damage that the current administration has done to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution.

Actually, he was a part-time senior lecturer. It's a fine position to have, but I don't like it when people or campaigns inflate someone's resume.

He was against the Iraq war from the beginning. Sure, many will argue that he had nothing to lose since he was a state senator at the time, but at least he didn't buckle to political expediency like Clinton did. And yes, he has voted to continue funding, but I believe he is the best person to get us out of that fucking mess.

People repeat this all the time, but really no can know how he would have voted. His record of voting for every Iraq funding measure has to make you wonder how committed he really has been to the get out of Iraq cause.

He also has talked about "redeploying" troops from Iraq. Where would these go? Iran?

He is honest. I trust him...as many others do, apparantly. He has been consistent on the issues.

I would love to trust him, too, but the Rezko stuff and the shadiness surrounding his house deal bother me. I would like to see him clear that up. Also, he has a history of voting "Present" as a state senator and not voting at all on many issues. I can only assume that he tries to avoid being on the record so that he can modify his stump speech to suit the audience he's addressing. These things do not inspire trust for me.

He is an incredible public speaker that rallies people to his side. He is very likeable, and I think having a black man with a strange name will do wonders to heal some our racial issues both here and abroad. I think we need to change the image of the US abroad and I believe he can do this better than any of the other candidates.

Clearly, many people agree with you on this one because so many people are running around chanting "Yes, We Can!", "Hope", and "Change". His speaking and empty phrases leave me cold. I would like to hear something more substantial from him.

He fucked up by having the gay baiter Donny McClurkin at a rally, but he is solid on LGBT issues.

He has yet to disavow a relationship with McClurkin. It makes me wonder how committed he really is to civil rights for LGBT folks.

He's been a member of the Trinity United Church for years. This church gives me the creeps.

I really want to like your candidate, but so far "Yes, We Can!", "Hope", and "Change" haven't been enough for me.

[RootSkier]

Actually, he was a part-time senior lecturer. It's a fine position to have, but I don't like it when people or campaigns inflate someone's resume.

This is a funny talking point. What do you think his students called him, Professor Obama or Part Time Senior Lecturer Obama?

The Rezko thing...if that could stick, the Clintons would be firing it out of a cannon.

You "want" to like him, huh?

e's been a member of the Trinity United Church for years. This church gives me the creeps.

All churches (except maybe unitarians and quakers) give me the creeps. But, it seems we still have a Christian litmus test for presidential candidates.

Also, he has a history of voting "Present" as a state senator and not voting at all on many issues.

Actually, there were some good reasons, at least some of the time. "Organizations like Planned Parenthood and NARAL have made it clear to any reporter who asks that Obama's present votes were part of a legislative strategy that they designed specifically to protect abortion rights."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karen-...e_b_84186.html

clooudpeak, you are entitled to any opinion you want, but I have to say this: your anti-Obama posts come off sounding like little more than concern trolls.

[Will]

As far as the "change" issue, the most obvious is that he is trying to get away from demonizing the other side, whether the other side is the Clintons or the Republicans. The politics that declares the other side is all bad is bullshit and most of us are sick of it. ... His strength is selling progressivism to non-progressives, and making them happy to support it.

This is a good point. A friend of mine said that if McCain didn't get the nod on the republican side he would vote for Obama in the general. He said this while wearing a "I'm STILL glad I voted for Bush AGAIN" T-shirt. If Obama can reach out to that guy...

The specific policy proposal question is an interesting one because it only gets thrown at Obama. Yet the news media does an equally crappy job informing us as to the specifics of Hillary, McCain, or Huckabee's policy choices. I haven't met any Hillary supporters who can, at the drop of a hat, provide a thorough explanation of her policy beliefs. So why isn't she considered to lack substance? Because, being Hillary Clinton, it's just assumed that she's a smart person. Hillary is the nerdy girl with glasses and Obama is a charming and effective speaker. It's a good narrative, and the media loves to run with it.

I've talked to lots of supporters of various sides and I rarely hear anything specific from anyone. Why does (did) my roomate support Thompson?
"Because he has strong conservative positions, and seems to say what he believes rather than what people want to hear"
- Wow, that was specific.

Why does my other roomate support Ron Paul?
"Because he believes in liberty."
- Also, very specific.

I hear from Hillary supporters that she "knows how to deal with the republican machine." Ok, then. Please provide instances of her "dealing with the republican machine." As far as I can tell her efforts have resulted in:
- Convincing a significant portion of the country that she IS the devil incarnate and feeds off of human blood nightly.
- Creating the punchline: "vast right-wing conspiracy."
- Voting for Iraq and for saber-rattling at Iran so as not to appear insufficiently warmongering.

Whatever though, this is so much griping. Why do I support Obama? Here are two reasons, both cribbed from better writers than I.

On Working out Disagreements
- Obama got a video-taping interrogation bill passed back in the day. Most thought it was doomed. It passed 35-0 in the state senate. One commentator observes:
""It was fought tooth and nail ... The cops and prosecutors were adamantly against it for some time including the Democratic Cook County Prosecutor. I swore reform was dead after the commutations, Obama pulled it off. It was an incredible sight. The end result was truly amazing. The police groups hated the idea and they hated racial profiling legislation — he passed both without angering them, but by working with them, listening, and showing good faith. I never thought it would pass with Democratic State's Attorneys opposing it, strongly even — but he pulled everyone along and did it pretty quickly.""

On Open Government - Another dude sez:
"Obama has shown a real commitment to open government. When putting together tech policy (to take an example close to home for xkcd) others might have gone to industry lobbyists. Obama went to Lawrence Lessig, founder of Creative Commons (under which xkcd is published) and longtime white knight in the struggle with a broken system over internet and copyright policy. Lessig was impressed by Obama’s commitment to open systems — for example, his support of machine-readable government information standards that allow citizens’ groups to monitor what our government is up to. Right now, the only group that can effectively police the government is the government itself, and as a result, it’s corrupt to the core. Through these excellent and long-overdue measures, Obama is working to fight this corruption."

[Will]

Actually, he was a part-time senior lecturer. It's a fine position to have, but I don't like it when people or campaigns inflate someone's resume.

Weak sauce, man.

I'm in law school. If they're in front of the class then you know two things:
1) They are mother-fucking smart. Seriously.
2) You call them professor (this applies to tenured, non-tenured, clinical, lawyering-program, associate, adjunct, or whatever -faculty).

[cloudpeak]

clooudpeak, you are entitled to any opinion you want, but I have to say this: your anti-Obama posts come off sounding like little more than concern trolls.

None of the issues I presented are opinion. They're facts. I'm an undecided voter. Way to win me over.

So, please give me some concrete reasons to support and vote for your candidate. Si, se puede doesn't do it.