CNN says Romney's out

[lemon boy]

For those treating McCain as a "moderate" or middle of the road guy, please ignore the media spin and explain to me how he has ever been moderate in his politics. If you can do this without mentioning campaign finance reform (his one maverick issue) or his diatribe against the religious right in 2000 (done to try and save a drowning campaign), I will be duly impressed.

John McCain also voted against tax cuts that were not paired with any kind of spending reduction.

oh wait...does that make him a liberal, a moderate or merely the possessor of a brain? Not sure, sorry.

[lemon boy]

Ooohh OHHH and his immigration policy is not: "round em all up and ship em out" so that's pretty moderate too!

[Arty50]

When asked if he supports vanilla soft serve or chocolate soft serve at McDowells, he looked at the camera, shook his fist and said..... SWIRL!

He goes to McDowells? I could never support a candidate that doesn't like sesame seeds.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Here's an article about conservative mistrust of McCain. It's not big-government stuff, it's the people he's aligned himself with (read: he dares to work with non-Republicans!), his votes against the Bush tax cuts, and his past positions on abortion and gun rights. And that other stuff you mentioned.

[timvwcom]

I have no political affiliation and haven't voted in twenty years. MY future depends on the sanctity and strength of the financial markets and in that respect Romney would have been the best person.

Please tell me why eliminating cap gains and corporate taxes would be bad for equities?

First, jeebus... my whining is starting to have ME wondering if I'm a far left looney?

Anyway, I won't comment on your specific question about equity markets above because I'm not an economist/expert in those markets like some here are. But I'll tell you what; I would be SO ROYALLY PISSED OFF if a capital gains elimination let "trust fund babies" live for TAX FREE when the teachers, cops, YOU & ME and rest of those who have to "work" for our money HAD TO STILL PAY, AND PROBABLY EVEN MORE AS A RESULT of letting them off the hook!!!

Comments on that specific issue? Do YOU think that would be "fair"???

[JimmyCarter]

Dude you obviously haven't been following things. The conservatives don't like Huck either. Conservative means more then just being religious. I mean fuck Jimmy Carter was real religious too.

No I wasn't!

[Danno]

virtually all of the "maverick McCain" stuff postdates 2000, when he recreated himself as a maverick in order to challenge the presumptive nominee, GWB. Prior to that, he was as conservative as it gets, except for campaign finance.

[fatback]

First, jeebus... my whining is starting to have ME wondering if I'm a far left looney?

Anyway, I won't comment on your specific question about equity markets above because I'm not an economist/expert in those markets like some here are. But I'll tell you what; I would be SO ROYALLY PISSED OFF if a capital gains elimination let "trust fund babies" live for TAX FREE when the teachers, cops, YOU & ME and rest of those who have to "work" for our money HAD TO STILL PAY, AND PROBABLY EVEN MORE AS A RESULT of letting them off the hook!!!

Comments on that specific issue? Do YOU think that would be "fair"???

Eliminating capital gains only eliminates the tax when you sell an asset. Any trust fund baby you speak of most likely lives off the interest earned by their assets which would still be taxable income no matter what happens with the capital gains tax. Odds are they do and will continue to pay a much larger percentage of their income to taxes than you ever will, so you can stop crying now.

[Tippster]

Or they're living off their dividends, and paying much less in taxes than you ever will. Yes, the rich WOULD pay more taxes than anyone else if there weren't all these wonderful loopholes.

[timvwcom]

Eliminating capital gains only eliminates the tax when you sell an asset. Any trust fund baby you speak of most likely lives off the interest earned by their assets which would still be taxable income no matter what happens with the capital gains tax. Odds are they do and will continue to pay a much larger percentage of their income to taxes than you ever will, so you can stop crying now.

Don't you think if the rules nixed taxes on "capital gains", all the trust fund babies portfolio managers would set up systems where they own appreciating (hopefully) stocks and sell every so often (with profit but without tax), rather than living off dividend type stocks???

[fatback]

Or they're living off their dividends, and paying much less in taxes than you ever will. Yes, the rich WOULD pay more taxes than anyone else if there weren't all these wonderful loopholes.

Wrong again because my broke ass is in the 15% tax bracket, same as their QUALIFIED dividend rate, but hey it's much easier to say the rich owe you something isn't it.

[Tippster]

Excellent - so when you finally join the rest of us who pay 45% or more in income tax because we no longer ask if "you want fries with that" for a living you may realize that you've been spoon-fed bullshit.

The middle class - those of us not "broke asses" nor silver spoon trustafarians - provide the bulk of the tax burden in real life, not the truly wealthy.

Now go mow my lawn.

[timvwcom]

I say fair must be closer to; "income" should be "income"... same rate schedules on it no matter whether it's from hard work, dividends or sale of an asset resulting in a capital gain?

[fatback]

Excellent - so when you finally join the rest of us who pay 45% or more in income tax because we no longer ask if "you want fries with that" for a living you may realize that you've been spoon-fed bullshit.

The middle class - those of us not "broke asses" nor silver spoon trustafarians - provide the bulk of the tax burden in real life, not the truly wealthy.

Now go mow my lawn.

Name calling, sweet, such an adult you are.

[fatback]

Excellent - so when you finally join the rest of us who pay 45% or more in income tax because we no longer ask if "you want fries with that" for a living you may realize that you've been spoon-fed bullshit.

The middle class - those of us not "broke asses" nor silver spoon trustafarians - provide the bulk of the tax burden in real life, not the truly wealthy.

Now go mow my lawn.

So the top marginal bracket is 35% on income over $349,700 and you pay 45% in income taxes, I must confess to being confused master,. Soon as you answer I promise to get right on that lawn work.

Congrats if you are making over 350K running a camera, I confess to being envious.

[Tippster]

I say fair must be closer to; "income" should be "income"... same rates on it no matter whether it's from hard work, dividends or sale of an asset resulting in a capital gain?

Tim, with the notable exception of Mr. Forbes the greatest resistance to a flat tax or simplification of our tax code comes from the wealthy, not the middle class or poor. Why would that be if they stood to gain the most on paper?

Fatback: you're the one making a point of how poor you are. I say either get a better paying job or educate yourself on the reality of who pays what. Do you honestly believe that you, at or below the poverty level, should pay the same level of tax as the wealthiest of the wealthy?

My company's CEO restructured his compensation package after that gift from the Bush Administration. He now takes most of his compensation in dividend-bearing stock, thus de-facto cutting his Net tax burden from the top bracket to one of the lowest. He is not alone by any means.

Regarding the 45% number - after deductions I receive 45% of my income as my net pay. Yes, that includes State, Federal, FICA, and Medicare deductions, not just Federal Income Tax. My bad.

Shouldn't you be working to feed yourself?

[rideit]

Dude...he produces porn on the side.

[timvwcom]

Tim, with the notable exception of Mr. Forbes the greatest resistance to a flat tax or simplification of our tax code comes from the wealthy, not the middle class or poor. Why would that be if they stood to gain the most on paper?

Opps, you caught the quote before I edited in "schedule" just to remove any thought that I was advocating a "flat" tax...

[CUBUCK]

Or they're living off their dividends, and paying much less in taxes than you ever will. Yes, the rich WOULD pay more taxes than anyone else if there weren't all these wonderful loopholes.

Give me a break. As far as I know your Dividends are taxed at 15% as well. Maybe time to shift some more of your assets into dividend paying stocks. Not to mentioned the dividends were already taxed at the corporate level and therefore should not be taxed at all at the individual level.

Hardly what I would call a loophole

[mr_gyptian]

No way that McCain puts huckabuck on the ticket. [crosses fingers]

I like the underdog McCain a LOT better than the frontrunner.

Huckabee being on that ticket is not something I'm willing to ponder.

[PNWbrit]

I just agreed with Mr G on a point he's made in a political thread.

I'm fairly sure our reasoning and sentiments are diametrically opposed but it still makes me want to punch myself in the face. Just in case.

[timvwcom]

Not to mentioned the dividends were already taxed at the corporate level and therefore should not be taxed at all at the individual level.

CUBUCK, I've always thought the basic reason the corporation was taxed is because in concept, the ownership of the corporation is creating a new "entity" (akin to a person) often to mainly avoid any individual/personal liability for the corporation financially or elsewise? The penalty for the owners, and benefit for society, for releasing them from that liability is that they have to pay corporate taxes.

If any of the above is accurate, then removing the corporate tax just gives those owners a "free pass" from their liability in the legal sense, no?

[fatback]

[QUOTE=Tippster;1679865]

Fatback: you're the one making a point of how poor you are. I say either get a better paying job or educate yourself on the reality of who pays what. Do you honestly believe that you, at or below the poverty level, should pay the same level of tax as the wealthiest of the wealthy?

QUOTE]

The same percentage yes. Why should you, making 350K a year be forced to pay a larger percentage in FEDERAL INCOME TAX, which is what the discussion was about, than me who makes 32K a year?

You and the other members of the top 10% of all earners already pay 68% of all the income tax now. You don't think that's enough, you want your taxes to go up?

[timvwcom]

The same percentage yes. Why should you, making 350K a year be forced to pay a larger percentage in FEDERAL INCOME TAX, which is what the discussion was about, than me who makes 32K a year?

Not my pitch, but I'll take a swing anyway...

Sounds like you are saying it would be fair for everyone to pay the same rate? Lets pick some number that MIGHT be in the range of what a flat tax rate would need to be; Uhhhh: 25% it is. So you think it would be "fair" to take 25% of the income of a minimum wage earner towards paying the countries expenses? And if you think it's fair, do you think it is practical? Will it really work?

Oh... and ask Warren Buffet about what the rich really pay. He pays a lower percentage than his secretary who makes less than $100,000 a year, if I recall correctly. Our tax codes are stuffed to the gills with ways the wealthy can avoid paying taxes... Our VP Darth Cheney himself used one of the wacko rules about charitable donations to avoid most of his taxes a couple years ago. Etc, etc. etc...

(Leaving for "the google" to find online support of these arguments made from memory.)

[MashedPotatoes]

I'll give you a simple formula for straightening out the problems of the United States. First, you tax the churches. You take the tax off of capital gains and the tax off of savings. You decriminalize all drugs and tax them same way as you do alcohol. You decriminalize prostitution. You make gambling legal. That will put the budget back on the road to recovery, and you'll have plenty of tax revenue coming in for all of your social programs, and to run the army. - Frank Zappa

and FWIW, Romney was a big phony and McCain is too old.