NSR - I am sorry to say...

[Twoplanker]

...that for the first time in my life, I am ashamed to be an American. I don't usually start political posts, but I'm sickened by what my government has done, from the MPs at Abu Ghraib all the way up to Donald Rumsfeld.

The full extent of the atrocities committed by our government at the Abu Ghraib prison, and also by elite military forces such as Navy Seals and Delta Force, and other systematic abuses of Iraqis, has yet to come. When it does, I'm afraid that the distinction between our supposed "moral superiority" and Sadaam Huessain's tyrannical rule will become less clear than I once thought it was.

I'm afraid that the damage to worldwide image of the US Military is forever tainted. But what really saddens me is the possibiity that is has not, in fact, been tained, but only exposed for what it always has been.

Rumsfeld's admission that he ordered a four-star general to call CBS News' 60 Minutes to "ask" them to delay the reporting of the images from Abu Ghraib is completely contrary to what democracy and our country represent. Safety for our troops on the ground is important, but ensuring that safety by having the government attempt to manipulate and suppress information is antithetical to the premise of the US Constitution.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Co...a.standard.jpg

[iceman]

Well, since you started te topic: We are fucked.

[acostiga]

i'm not embarssed to be an american- i'm shocked by, and embarassed for, the foolish idiots who are responsible for these crimes.

in my mind, "being american" can take on many totally different meanings. usually, i choose an uplifting and positive spin with my interpretation of "being american". wasn't stuff like this happening during vietnam? i'm not a historical scholar, but i think that our troops have done some similarly horrible stuff in the past.

[grrrr]

Al Qaeda recuiters never had it so good.

[mr_gyptian]

Those fucking idiots did an outstanding job of completely undermining what we're trying to accomplish in Iraq. The only thing we can do is punish them with the utmost severeity. Send the message that when this happens in our society you get Punished not Promoted.

[Spicoli]

Originally posted by iceman
Well, since you started te topic: We are fucked.

and I would not want to be the next American held captive in Iraq

[Canuk]

Originally posted by grrrr
Al Qaeda recuiters never had it so good.

Sad but true. Even as a Canadian this worries me. It saddens me that we (supposedly "civilized' nations) can not rise above these sort of actions.

[summit]

Originally posted by acostiga
i'm not embarssed to be an american- i'm shocked by, and embarassed for, the foolish idiots who are responsible for these crimes.

in my mind, "being american" can take on many totally different meanings. usually, i choose an uplifting and positive spin with my interpretation of "being american".

very well said

i agree except "embarassed" is not for the incompetent lackwitted bastards who broke the rules of war... "welcome to Ft. Leavenworth KS, enjoy your stay!" is for those responsible for these crimes.

as to history... the key difference here is that this wasn't something carried out in the field in heat of battle or under the stress of combat... this was systematic and dimented actions taken in a controlled atmoshpere.

[Superstar Punani]

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/rnr/30406779.html

Let's see: according to reports, Iraqi prisoners were stripped naked, made to dogpile on each other, simulated sex with each other, got urinated on, and had short haired women make fun of them.

Dang! This sounds like a normal Saturday night in the Castro. Let's import this and charge a $10 cover! The lines to get in will be around the block.

[char]

You know, these pictures are bad and there's no question about it. But they're not in context because nobody knows all the details behind this. We don't really know who these people are. The impression is being left that they're just innocent Iraqis that can't help us at all and that our "torturers" in there just having fun and games with them. Now, I speculated yesterday, "These are people that tried to kill Americans." You know, the terrorist population from the world over has sent representatives to Iraq. Who knows who's in these prisons? That's part of finding out, and if you're going to detain them and if you've got them there under these kinds of suspicions, yeah, well, find out who they are. [Pause] Well, here goes. I'm just going to tell.

-Rush Limbaugh


I think the worst part of this whole thing is that we have prominant figures in our media (mainly the right) making excuses for this kind of behavior. They would be screaming bloody murder if it was our troops being treated this way. Everybody remembers the uproar over our POW's being shown on TV, right?

I do have to give the military credit for being proactive about this, it's not like media attention started up their investigation and arrest of these people, it has been ongoing.

[mr_gyptian]

Originally posted by Punani
http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/rnr/30406779.html

Let's see: according to reports, Iraqi prisoners were stripped naked, made to dogpile on each other, simulated sex with each other, got urinated on, and had short haired women make fun of them.

Dang! This sounds like a normal Saturday night in the Castro. Let's import this and charge a $10 cover! The lines to get in will be around the block.

Or 80s fraternity hazing.

[acostiga]

don't get me started on rush limbaugh... not on a friday, not this close to happy hour.

[char]

Originally posted by mr_gyptian
Or 80s fraternity hazing.

Please tell me you aren't really using that as an excuse.

[grrrr]

Originally posted by acostiga
don't get me started on rush limbaugh

Cut the guy some slack. He was probably stoned when he said that.

[Sublime]

Shame is one of the only ways to break the Iraqi prisinoers down. The middle eastern mentality is far diffirent then ours. You tourture us to get the Westerners to talk, you shame them. Much like the Samuri in Japan they would take death over shame.

I would say at this abuse has been going on since the start of thw war. I call bullshit that Rumsfeld didn't know.

[char]

It's all the womens fault.

Ann Coulter, right-wing pundit and syndicated columnist, said:


I think the other point that no one is making about the abuse photos is just the disproportionate number of women involved, including a girl general running the entire operation.


I mean, this is lesson, you know, one million and 47 on why women shouldn't be in the military. In addition to not being able to carry even a medium-sized backpack, women are too vicious.
[FOX News Channel, Hannity & Colmes, May 5]

Ok, thats enough of this crap, back to skiing.

[acostiga]

i'd spill my guts, probably even make some shit up too, if my captors made me listen to a neverending recording of rush limbaugh's show.

almost quittin' time
soon, you'll know where to find me
underneath a beer

[summit]

If you are looking for Ann Coulter's skanky ass... you'll find it between the clammy thighs of Rush Limbaugh while Michael Moore peeks through the window.

[char]

The point of my posting about these two twits is that they reach and appeal to a large segment of America, and they are making excuses.

[summit]

Originally posted by char
The point of my posting about these two twits is that they reach and appeal to a large segment of America, and they are making excuses.

Large segment? No
Ignorant segment with no critical thinking skills? Yes
... wait a minute...

[char]

Large segment? No

[FOX News Channel, Hannity & Colmes, May 5]

[Mcwop]

Originally posted by Spicoli
and I would not want to be the next American held captive in Iraq

Next? It has already happened. Some of them did not even live long enough to be considered captive.

[Grange]

I was watching the hearings during my lunch break and I am sorry to say that other than John Mckane (sp?) I could tell without looking what party the senator asking questions was affiliated with.

[The AD]

Did you see Rummy now wants to compensate the prisoners who were tortured? Yep, pay 'em off, that's the American way.

[Pinner]

On the flip side, President Junior's appoval rating is the lowest it's ever been. So that's nice. If you're a democrat.