Mandatory Helmets in MI

[YourSupremeExcellency]

You truly are a moron.

It sucks to be wrong doesn't it?

[SkiOrDie]

New bill would make it illegal for restaurants to serve the obese.

I love it that someone would write a LAW to force us not to feed fatties.

Look, the only rationalization I can think of for outlawing all this junk: Helmets, Cigars, Driving Too Fast, Transfats, and every other thing we're being "saved" from, is that it either hurts others (driving too fast around someone) or that it hurst ourselves.

Let's assume the second, as I think we probably all agree we shouldn't hurt others unreasonably. So, why does our government and a lot of the people want us to avoid hurting ourselves? The only rational reason I can come up with is that they don't want to pay for the medical attention we'll need once we're all screwed up. Sure, there are some bleeding-heart reasons like: "That dumb-shit is too stupid to know that skiing trees without a helmet could fuck him up! So, we ought to have a law." But, they are actually ill-founded and rather rare.

If I'm right, then all we need to do is promise that we won't avail ourselves of any of the public services if we get hurt and then we should have the right to tell them to buzz off.

So, write in magic marker on your forehead: "I have decided that I don't want anyone's help if I get hurt. Please leave me alone. I'll take care of myself."

Then, after you bash your self into a rock or tree and the Patrol shows up, they'll know to leave you right there in the snow and ignore the blood pouring out of your head, 'cuz you wanted it just that way and have excused yourself from the "help" provided by society.

I don't think you can have it both ways.

If you want society to help you, you have to do reasonable things to avoid putting to big a strain on the system that's providing the help. But, if you don't want the help that society provides, then have at it and knock yourself out (literally).

B-))

[GATOR BOY]

SkiorDie
Be careful thinking rationally in S.F.
It'll get you flogged.

[Turd Ferguson]

Are YOU really that stupid? Right from the dictionary...

Wikipedia is not "the dictionary" (try going to college and writing a research paper citing 'pedia as your sole source of information and see what the prof says), but I'll play anyway.

That definition doesn't say fascism is the sole political system that subordinates the individual to society as a whole - only anarcho-libertarian weirdos don't believe that society is greater than the individual.

Liberal democracy stresses the rights and freedoms of the individual, but not at the expense of society. Each possible infringement of your rights must be weighed based on the costs and benefits. With helmets, the societal benefit might be small, but so is the cost to the individual, so most reasonable people don't cry fascism.

If you think we're not free enough here, feel free to shop around.

[Johnny Deep]

FKNA, next will be manditory thinking!

[emtnate]

Ski or Die, I am that help that society provides. If everyone refuses my care, I might have to get a real job.

I think they're trying to protect everyone else, not the individual. We all bear the cost of every dumbass out there. It's not just the medical expenses that get written off, but overtime while someone is off work, court costs for lawsuits, higher insurance premiums, ect... That arguement is still hard to make because everything bears risks.

I'd like to see some real research regaring the effectiveness of ski helmets. Docs I've talked to in our local trauma center agree that in general, helmets prevent or reduce injures 40-50% of the time. That's pretty significant.

What I'm more worried about is some Michigan hills cater to the guy with his blue jeans and straight skis. I bet many people around here ski once or twice a year and rent equipment. Helmets are good for one crash. Many times damage is not visable. Who's responsible when someone gets hurt from a previously damaged helmet? I know at least one Michigan hill is lax on inspecting rentals before handing them out. I also don't want to pay higher lift tickets because the resort had to buy 2000 helmets for a rental fleet.

[summit]

I always wear a helmet. Ultimately this bill will save the public money and probably reduce morbidity/mortality. The law is still wrong because it's not the governments place to make such laws. It is yet another law making us an even bigger nanny state. I'm sure helmet companies have lobbied for such laws.

[jfost]

I know. If I want to go out and shoot someone I should be able to. If I want to park in front of a fire hydrant I should be able to.

That's just it... you CAN do these things! You just have to pay the consequences. In the above 2 cases; about 20yrs in jail, a small fine + broken out windows from the FD running the hose through your car.

You gotta believe that firefighters LOVE smashing a hose through a nice BMW that is blocking their hydrant!!! I know I would find some fun in that!!!

Anyway, because we are "free", you have the ability to decide for yourself if you want to shoot people or park in front of hydrants.

[Jer]

That's one gay bill.

Also, all the douches here argueing semantics and pointing out spelling errorz are equally gay. We get it - you're a pathetic fag with an annoying manner of expressing yourself. Back OT.

[jfost]

finally, Jer said it best!!! America is free and cool because we are all equally gay!!!

We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, revel in the equal distribution of gayness, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posteriors, do ordain and establish this constitution for the united states of america

[Erls]

I, myself, hate the fact that people try and protect me from myself.

My view is, as long as your actions do not impact other people (stealing, murder, etc...) let them do it.

If you cannot afford medical help, tough luck. Its not the governments job to take care of us, its our job to take care of ourselves. I'm in favor of the smallest amount of taxes possible: As in no Medicare/Medicaid, no SS, no government help programs. It is our responsibility to take care of our selves, not to rely on the forced help from other citizens.

Let people make their own choices, and if they need help, let charity do the work.

So, forcing helmets on skiers - not a fan.

[Jer]

finally, Jer said it best!!! America is free and cool because we are all equally gay!!!

Not at all Mr. Reading Comprehension. If anything I was saying that some of us are WAY more gay than others. Where you got this equality crap is beyond me.

[3eyedsmiley]

Isn't this similar to legislation requiring seatbelts in cars?

[jfost]

ooohhh, the strains of "America the Beautiful" are dying out in my head...

for it is not All Americans who are equally gay, but only the douches in this thread, who strive to semantically argue, and find errorz to out. They, and they alone, shall henceforth be considered gay, in equalitum in perpetuity.

I really wanted us to have some kind of good vibe today, for Super/Fat Tuesday... I thought that maybe, just maybe, for one day, we could all be equally gay. But I was wrong...

[P_McPoser]

I'm sure helmet companies have lobbied for such laws.

Gotta watch out for the all-powerful helmet company lobby!

[b_mackin]

Fill in the blank with anything you want "________ isn't the problem. Stupid people are the problem"

[allenataylor]

I wear a helmet almost every day I ski, hell i have a helmet quiver (racing, all around, full face, climbing/mountaineering). The idea if it being mandated however is just ridiculous. I am also from NH, our taxes aren't bad accept for the property taxes that make up for the lack of all the other taxes. Property taxes however are a great way to screw over out of staters with second homes.

Live free or die, and sometimes live free and die. Every person has a right to get themselves killed as long as it does not endanger others (seat belts, motorcycle helmets etc.).

NH may not be the powder capitol of the northeast but is has some of the sickest skiing this side of the mississippi. I have been out west several times and I still bring more gear and do more prep for a presidential range outing than anywhere else. The weather there makes almost anywhere else on this continent look tame.

[Steven S. Dallas]

There's no taxes in Cali either

Huh, where's that 9.5% of my salary going?

[Crass3000]

Someone will try to legislate fat people to stop drinking cokes too.

For all those who support universal health care do you actually think the government won't start legislating based on health?

[doughboyshredder]

I know. If I want to go out and shoot someone I should be able to. If I want to park in front of a fire hydrant I should be able to.

Way to twist the words around.

The examples above are ways that personal actions can affect the public.

We are talking about personal actions that can affect the person that takes those actions.

All paternalistic laws are contrary to the entire concept of freedom that our nation was founded on. Protecting the stupid from themselves is anti-evolutionary.

[Crass3000]

Every person has a right to get themselves killed as long as it does not endanger others (seat belts, motorcycle helmets etc.).

I agree with you but the problem is that not everybody dies and then when you're a parapelegic for the rest of your life it starts to become everybody elses problem.

Hell if you're stupid enough not to where a helmet be my guest but the fact is that that stupidity does effect other people when they have to pay for your disabled ass for the rest of your life. Sorry to be cold... but the stupid decisions people make do have consequences for those not involved sometimes.

Edit: I guess legislation like this is pretty stupid. You can't make everything illegal.

[RootSkier]

I painted my helmet with white-out...

oh shit, wrong thread.

[The AD]

Way to twist the words around.

The examples above are ways that personal actions can affect the public.

My point wasn't that a helmet law is necessarily a good thing, but that of those "millions of laws" on the books there are plenty that are valid. You can't just make a blanket statement that we don't need laws "telling us what we can and can't do."

[YourSupremeExcellency]

Huh, where's that 9.5% of my salary going?

You did not pick up on what I was suggesting.