Intuition Liner / Nordica Hot Rod Problem

[GrizzlyFD]

First off I love this boot. Matches my foot perfectly, narrow throughout, very well defined heel pocket, and with a spoiler the cuff is spot on. The problem is the liner basically sucks balls and is insanely cold. The shell doesn't help much and basically lets snow/ice in through the toe overlap. Duct tape over the toes helps, but the liner is paper thin in the toe area.

To combat this I purchased some power wraps. Boot size is US10/UK9 (original hot rods were UK sizing). 324mm bsl. And the power wraps are size 10 as well. Shell fitting I have about 5-10mm behind my heel.

The problem is my right toe is black from toe bang and the liner's compressing my toes too much. I baked them with a ski sock/wool toe cap and they seemed to have enough room, but when I took them out my toes were clamped down way to tight (no buckles clamped down). I skied one day and after pain throughout the day decided to rebake. I heated them up and used one ski sock with a running sock over a thin sock. There is definitely more space up front, but my toes are still extremely tight.

I'll try them on again after a couple days once some of the pain/swelling goes down, but WWMD? Is the liner just too big for the boot? My other toes had some pain, but it was slightly more manageable.

One thing I did notice was the heel of the intuition liner isn't flat on the bottom of the boot shell (I can tell b/c the shell is slightly transparent) I can't get the liner to go down anymore during the molding process. This may be the reason for the decrease in toe space with the liner jamming the front of my boot. Has anyone experienced this? The inner shell of the boot is quite odd with plastic sticking out everywhere making fitting a real bitch.

-matt

I'll try to get some pictures of everything up tonight (including the freak toe )

[Wetdog]

You might try having your toe punched out a bit. If the other liner was "paper thin" in the toe, as you say, then the intuition liners, being thicker, will take up more space. I have had two boots fit for me this year. I bought a half size too small to get the performance fit I wanted overall, then punched the toe box to fit my fore foot until it was comfortable. A good boot fitter should be able to do this for you. Then bake the liner to the new shell shape one more time and you should be in business.

[SponsoredByDuctTape]

I went through the same exact process but with Zip Fits. The problem is that the Hot Rod shell has a very pronounced heel pocket. If you look at the shell from the outside, you'll notice that the achilles area of the shell curves in much more than other shells. In other words, if you take a ruler and place it in the shell running straight down the spine of the boot, you'll see a big space between the shell and the ruler at the very bottom of the boot, where your heel goes. The custom liners just don't appear to be made to fit that much curve in the heel area.

Try this...put the Intuition in your boot, put your foot in it, and look at how much space there is between the back of the heel of the liner and the shell. I'd bet there's about a quarter inch or more in there.

I took the Zip Fits back (they can resell them because they can remold them), and I have yet to check the Nordica foam liners, but I'm sure they'll fit as they were designed for that shell.

[XtrPickels]

I wonder if the plug liners from intuition would be a better fit?

[H-wood]

I went through the same exact process but with Zip Fits. The problem is that the Hot Rod shell has a very pronounced heel pocket. If you look at the shell from the outside, you'll notice that the achilles area of the shell curves in much more than other shells. In other words, if you take a ruler and place it in the shell running straight down the spine of the boot, you'll see a big space between the shell and the ruler at the very bottom of the boot, where your heel goes. The custom liners just don't appear to be made to fit that much curve in the heel area.

that anatomic shape in the heel/rearfoot/medial side is why those boots ski really well, but they are ultra-cold, leaky, and that stock liner is chintzy.

regular zipfits (and probably intuitions) are too bulky for that shell, but both make plug boot models now that might work well. race stock doberman liners are really good (but still cold), and I've heard the doberman foam liners are sweet.

you might be able to make intuitions work, but you need to work with a good bootfitter- it's well worth it to pay them to help you do it right... but they may tell you the intuition is not the best solution.

you, or a bootfitter, can also upgrade the toe dam to cut down on airflow and leakage- glueing in a couple of custom rubber gaskets that fill in the gaps will help. if you unbuckle on the lift keep the toes buckled.

[Krash]

First off, if you are in a shell fit of 5-10mm, ie. a snug 1-finger fit. You would have been better off with a sz 9 Intuition. But with that said, you should be able to get the liners to work.

A few tips to get a good Intuition mold, especially in a low volume fit. Mold with a good neoprene toecap (3-5mm thick), and I use a molding board, simply made with a piece of plywood elevated 1.5" in the front, and straps attached to both sides. You stand on the board with toes elevated, grab on to the straps with each hand and pull down putting weight evenly on the bottom of your feet. This compresses the material on the bottom of the liner eliminating the spongy feel on the sole of your foot. And elevating your toes gives you leverage to flex into the boot and liner, this drives the heel back also compressing the liner to give more room in the mold. Be careful, over-flexing during the molding process can give you too roomy of a mold.

Just remember, The tighter you buckle the boot, the more you flex and articulate the ankle during the molding process, the looser the fit. And obviously the opposite is true.

And a good fit-eval and some prep work (grinding/stretching) always will help achieve a better liner mold.

Good luck

[GrizzlyFD]

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. I think a lot of this is spot on.

The heel pocket is very pronounced because of the riveting done between the two shell pieces right above the Achilles tendon. This makes it extremely difficult to get the liner in flat on the boot.

WRT size, I went back and forth with the intuition people and they said that the liner "should" compress with a size 10 and 5-10mm shell fit. I think this in combination with the heel issue is causing the compression in the front of the boot. I may just return the liners as I am pretty satisfied with the stock ones based on fit and deal with the cold in other ways.

Also, I'm sure there are other's who have experienced the problem with entry/exit with boots and shells with overlapping cuffs (no tongue). I can't take my feet out of the boots when they are cold, just not enough flex in the liners and shell. I have to wait until they warm up a little to get them off.

[BODOMINO]

I am thinking about getting an Intuition liner for my Technica Icon Alu 9.5 (27.5) shells - I only have the Ultrafit and would like something a little more substantial. I've been doing alot of prep work on the boot (punching, grinding, etc) to get the fit just right for when I put the new liner in. My questions for all y'all tech maggots are these - what friggin' size Intuition should I go with and what type? I have about 1.5 fingers in the back of the shell when the liner is out and my toe is all the way forward. Oh, and I am a freerider level 7 skier if that helps match the liner type.

[milkman]

I am thinking about getting an Intuition liner for my Technica Icon Alu 9.5 (27.5) shells - I only have the Ultrafit and would like something a little more substantial. I've been doing alot of prep work on the boot (punching, grinding, etc) to get the fit just right for when I put the new liner in. My questions for all y'all tech maggots are these - what friggin' size Intuition should I go with and what type? I have about 1.5 fingers in the back of the shell when the liner is out and my toe is all the way forward. Oh, and I am a freerider level 7 skier if that helps match the liner type.

I have a 1 finger shell fit in my Salomon Impacts and Intuition recommended a size 8 liner for my size 25 (7) boot (they fit me in their warehouse though). Works perfectly. Give intuition a call and see what they say. 1.5 fingers in the back would put you in at least a 9 liner (Power Wrap), but you might do better in a 10. The foam does compress pretty thin where you want it to....Just my 2 cents.

[Cirquerider]

I have the original generation Hot Rods and a similar performance fit (UK 9 with a US size 12 foot). I ordered the Powerwrap Intuition liners and found there is just no way that is going to work. A friend did make an Intuition plug liner work. Mine are going into the Adrenalines. As far as the Hot Rods, I had some further work done, and put in a foot bed. For warmth, either Hotronics heaters or Boot Glove seems to work well on cold days. For all the complaining I see on the stock liner, I find it to be a thin, high performance fit that really has no place to pack out. The fit is all built into the shell. The best fits in the original Hot Rods are from people who fit them like a plug. Lots of grinding, some punches and a good footbed. Yeah, they are cold.

[Blue Ox]

Krash's molding board suggestion is important given the shape of the heel pocket on the Hot Rod. i.e., you need gravity / leverage to get the intuition to sink into that pocket.

Other suggestions: 1) sometimes double two caps are helpful (especially if you're not using ones made of thick neoprene. 2) the plug intuition liner is great for tight shell fits and 3) a different size in the power wrap may also work.

But I would first give Intuition a call and/or see a bootfitter who has a lot of experience working with Intuitions

[schuss]

Something else to consider: My first day in intuitions was hellishly painful as well, so I took a number of 15 minute breaks to take off the boots and massage the feet. After that day and half of the next, they packed out enough to be comfy, and I now love em. Give them a solid day to break in.