WWMD: Damage to skis by shop tuning

**RaccoonFace** · 01-24-2008, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gripen

Talked with the shop owner again today and she was very helpful and understanding. I told her what I wanted and she is working on it. I also just emailed a link to this thread.

This will hopefully be resolved on Monday as I am in Fernie for the weekend

You should email her a link to the "Neptune" thread to see how bad it can get, and how many people can view the thread if this turns out bad. Show her that the thread even shows up in google searches... She may even consider paying off your mortgage!

okbye

BLOOD SWEAT STEEL · 01-24-2008, 11:06 PM

The power of the internet is very strong. The power of the maggot collective also is often misunderstood and sorely underestimated.

Regardless, I don't think making any kind of threat is in order yet. Just give her the opportunity to handle the situation professionally first, and go from there.

**GoldenGirl** · 01-24-2008, 11:56 PM

Wow! Talk about feuling the fire.... if they were my ski's I would be pissed and would expect some sort of compensation.

Now, its my turn...

First, I do not "sub-contract" out our tuning service. We are merely a drop off location for a business that does not have a store front. A business that is well known and has been tuning ski's in Golden for a few years. A business that has, up until this thread, had a great reputation for its work.

Second, I completely agree that the damage should have been brought to "Gripen's" attention when he picked up his ski's. However, it was never brought to my attention, or to the attention of any of my employee's, that anything out of the ordinary had taken place in regards to his ski tune. With that said, I was not even given the opportunity to make this right from the beginning.

Third, I did not "blow off" any responsibility, or "jerk anyone around" by giving out the contact info of the person that tuned Gripen's skis. By the time it was even brought to my attention(yesterday) that there was a problem that info was already given to Gripen by one of my employees. If it were, in fact, the mistake of "my tech guy" or if I did indeed "sub-contract" my tunes out, I would have remedied the situation immediately and taken responsibility. The appropriate business owner has been given the opportunity to accept responsibility and remedy the situation - he was in contact with Gripen and had offered some form of compensation this morning. It was not until later this morning that Gripen informed me that he felt what he was offered wasn't enough and feels he deserves a new pair of skis.

The reality is that business/compensation/liability/assumption of responsibility moves alot slower than the shit talking

on public chat forums... to those of you that get off on "calling out" shops I hope this helps you sleep at night - Darkside. To those of you that simply reassured Gripen that he had every right to be pissed, deserves some sort of compensation, and recommended that he conduct himself in a levelheaded professional manner, I applaud you.

Robyn

**CaddyDaddy77** · 01-25-2008, 12:14 AM

Pretty responsible response, let the masses now flame away.

Keep in mind she stepped in the muck that is the madness, and applaud her effort.

Hope it works out for both parties.

**RaccoonFace** · 01-25-2008, 12:52 AM

First off, good job nipping this in the bud ASAP. It is cool to hear that something is happening to resolve the situation that doesn't remind one of an insurance claim.

Originally Posted by GoldenGirl

First, I do not "sub-contract" out our tuning service. We are merely a drop off location for a business that does not have a store front. A business that is well known and has been tuning ski's in Golden for a few years. A business that has, up until this thread, had a great reputation for its work.

Yea and I don't fart, I equalize pressure. What do you call it when you accept money at your store front for work you don't do in house, where the parts are sent to another location for work to be done by another business that you accept a minimum amount of responsibility for? Not trying to be a dick (honestly), just looking for clarification.

Originally Posted by GoldenGirl

The reality is that business/compensation/liability/assumption of responsibility moves alot slower than the shit talking

on public chat forums... to those of you that get off on "calling out" shops I hope this helps you sleep at night - Darkside.

Hey, there wasn't anything bad here... at least not what I saw. People were just trying to advise someone in a situation that had potential to be... unpleasant. And, no one here pork-chopped those skis, it was all on your end so don't think pissing in our Cheerios is going to help your plight or make you any friends. You should have made up a fake name for that, like the kids from Neptune.

As for "shit talking" something tells me you should hold on to your hat!

okbye

**Garrett** · 01-25-2008, 12:57 AM

"Drop off location for a business that doesn't have a storefront" sounds like semantics more than anything.

I applaud Robyn for the post, letting us know the other side of the story. Hope you and Gripen can get this figured out amicably soon.

And on a less serious note:

Originally Posted by Nick

Is this store manager chick hot?

Pics Robyn?

**PulverSchwein** · 01-25-2008, 02:10 AM

Just make it right somehow GoldenGirl. That is your best option. Gripen came here for a qualified and broad opinion on his situation, and seems to have acted in a pretty reasonable manner. He's not out of line at all and you seem to understand that. This "should" end well unless your tune guy is a dick. Even if he is, I don't see how you can pawn responsibility off onto him at Gripen's expense.

**Arty50** · 01-25-2008, 02:48 AM

Yup, he was just speaking in generalities. Keep in mind that he never named your shop and still hasn't.

**2nd mate** · 01-25-2008, 07:11 AM

Keeping in mind with Arty50 about not having names outed YET. What type of liability does your shop accept(in your opinion) by allowing this other business to do business through your doors? I am sure your shop is paid something for its services. it would seem logical that if you have a financial gain through this transaction(tuning) then there would be some liability involved? Maybe it would be appropriate for your shop to play a more active role in the settlement process than you appear to be doing? From your post it appears you are placing all the blame on the other business that does business through you business? " the appropriate business owner has been given the opportunity to accept responsibility..."

**Skidog** · 01-25-2008, 07:59 AM

Agreed with 2ndmate....

If you facilitate the tuning of the skis through your shop it becomes your responsibility. I will also assume that you receive compensation for "farming" out the ski tunes to a different shop (maybe just some dudes basement?), so again it becomes your responsibility.

A good business owner would've/might've offered to replace the skis out of pocket and deal with the "contractor" on the side. Tell him he isnt getting paid for the next X amount of tunes, or that you'll find someone else to do the work from now on, but either way you should've facilitated this fix.

As far as im concerned if I drop my skis off at a shop for a tune, I dont really care where they are tuned, just that they are tuned correctly and come back to me in BETTER shape than when I dropped them off. In this case that was reversed.

I hope you 2 or 3 can resolve this issue and nothing "bad" has to happen. Again, as mentioned earlier, the maggot collective is underestimated in its ability to help out a fellow maggot...

God luck to all parties involved.

M

**mtskier** · 01-25-2008, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenGirl

The reality is that business/compensation/liability/assumption of responsibility moves alot slower than the shit talking

on public chat forums... to those of you that get off on "calling out" shops I hope this helps you sleep at night - Darkside. To those of you that simply reassured Gripen that he had every right to be pissed, deserves some sort of compensation, and recommended that he conduct himself in a levelheaded professional manner, I applaud you.

the shit talking stops and the calling out is averted once gripen gets a new pair of skis. its that simple. now just do it already.

**Rontele** · 01-25-2008, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenGirl

Wow! Talk about feuling the fire.... if they were my ski's I would be pissed and would expect some sort of compensation.

Now, its my turn...

First, I do not "sub-contract" out our tuning service. We are merely a drop off location for a business that does not have a store front. A business that is well known and has been tuning ski's in Golden for a few years. A business that has, up until this thread, had a great reputation for its work.

Second, I completely agree that the damage should have been brought to "Gripen's" attention when he picked up his ski's. However, it was never brought to my attention, or to the attention of any of my employee's, that anything out of the ordinary had taken place in regards to his ski tune. With that said, I was not even given the opportunity to make this right from the beginning.

Third, I did not "blow off" any responsibility, or "jerk anyone around" by giving out the contact info of the person that tuned Gripen's skis. By the time it was even brought to my attention(yesterday) that there was a problem that info was already given to Gripen by one of my employees. If it were, in fact, the mistake of "my tech guy" or if I did indeed "sub-contract" my tunes out, I would have remedied the situation immediately and taken responsibility. The appropriate business owner has been given the opportunity to accept responsibility and remedy the situation - he was in contact with Gripen and had offered some form of compensation this morning. It was not until later this morning that Gripen informed me that he felt what he was offered wasn't enough and feels he deserves a new pair of skis.

The reality is that business/compensation/liability/assumption of responsibility moves alot slower than the shit talking

on public chat forums... to those of you that get off on "calling out" shops I hope this helps you sleep at night - Darkside. To those of you that simply reassured Gripen that he had every right to be pissed, deserves some sort of compensation, and recommended that he conduct himself in a levelheaded professional manner, I applaud you.

Robyn

Welcome to the TGR forums, Robyn. You can justly compensate all of us by posting nekkid pictures of yourself.

Thanks!

**grskier** · 01-25-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Rontele

Welcome to the TGR forums, Robyn. You can justly compensate all of us by posting nekkid pictures of yourself.

Thanks!

See Rontele, thats where you and I differ... with that screne name I was picturing Beatrice Arthur or Rue McClanahan... and I definitely don't want to see those picts.

Good on you for stepping up to the plate Robyn.

**pappag** · 01-25-2008, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by grskier

See Rontele, thats where you and I differ... with that screne name I was picturing Beatrice Arthur or Rue McClanahan... and I definitely don't want to see those picts.

The firedevil at the end lends itself to a different story.

**SuperChief** · 01-25-2008, 10:07 AM

It would be an interesting story how the damage happened, and how you would of missed it, due to the huge shiny binding scratches. and the huge chunks taken out of the tips? Was it previous damage exacerbated by a careless tech?

those scratches look like a few different events. I'd think the scratches would all be going in the same direction or close if the ski got stuck in a tuning machine, but they vary in direction, and size and seems to have several different layers of different scratches.

Good luck with em, you shouldn't have brought the store owner to the board, I'm sure she's impressed with the maturity level of the collective.

I hope they fix em and at least give you a refund and a free hat. New skis, I wouldn't cough em up if I was the manager, you paid for the service, walked out of the shop and skied em before it was even brought to the shops attention.

Sorry about your bad luck.

**focus** · 01-25-2008, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenGirl

Wow! Talk about feuling the fire.... if they were my ski's I would be pissed and would expect some sort of compensation.

These are make it or break it customer service situations for the reputation of any kind of shop. The fire was fueled because Gripen was jacked around. IF immediate and complete action was taken by your shop this thread would read completely opposite of what it does now. You still have an opportunity to salvage this situation and come out looking golden. Don't squander that.

First, I do not "sub-contract" out our tuning service. We are merely a drop off location for a business that does not have a store front. A business that is well known and has been tuning ski's in Golden for a few years. A business that has, up until this thread, had a great reputation for its work.

I'm genuinely curious, here.... do you make sure your customers know this up front, in writing or even just verbally? Does the service contract/receipt the customer signs/receives have this other guys name on it instead of your own? If so, maybe part of your above paragraph makes sense or means something and absolves you of SOME OF your liability. If not, your above paragraph is an absolutely meaningless thing to say, and really has nothing to do w/ the situation at all.

Second, I completely agree that the damage should have been brought to "Gripen's" attention when he picked up his ski's. However, it was never brought to my attention, or to the attention of any of my employee's, that anything out of the ordinary had taken place in regards to his ski tune. With that said, I was not even given the opportunity to make this right from the beginning.

Again, this is nobody's problem but your own. Include the above two paragraphs in your apology WHILE YOU'RE MAKING IT RIGHT. Don't offer it up as an excuse.

Third, I did not "blow off" any responsibility, or "jerk anyone around" by giving out the contact info of the person that tuned Gripen's skis. By the time it was even brought to my attention(yesterday) that there was a problem that info was already given to Gripen by one of my employees.

your employee = you = the shop. Again, your problem. There may be a training issue here.

The appropriate business owner has been given the opportunity to accept responsibility and remedy the situation - he was in contact with Gripen and had offered some form of compensation this morning. It was not until later this morning that Gripen informed me that he felt what he was offered wasn't enough and feels he deserves a new pair of skis.

Again, who is the appropriate person to assign liability to? If Gripen intentionally did business with the guy you're talking about you may have a point. If he didn't even know about this other guy the above paragraph is just more meaninglessness. Are you really that naive, as a businessperson?

It may be that you have some recourse against this guy who does your tuning, but that's neither here nor there in this situation. Gripen should absolutely not be in the middle of that.

**focus** · 01-25-2008, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by SuperChief

It would be an interesting story how the damage happened, and how you would of missed it, due to the huge shiny binding scratches. and the huge chunks taken out of the tips? Was it previous damage exacerbated by a careless tech?

those scratches look like a few different events. I'd think the scratches would all be going in the same direction or close if the ski got stuck in a tuning machine, but they vary in direction, and size and seems to have several different layers of different scratches.

Good luck with em, you shouldn't have brought the store owner to the board, I'm sure she's impressed with the maturity level of the collective.

I hope they fix em and at least give you a refund and a free hat. New skis, I wouldn't cough em up if I was the manager, you paid for the service, walked out of the shop and skied em before it was even brought to the shops attention.

Sorry about your bad luck.

He took his skis in expecting them to be returned to him in BETTER shape, not worse. How do you assign a dollar value to that? What if they do delam next month? Whose fault was it? Do you really still want to be screwing around with this a month from now? What about the PITA it's turned into for him?

If it were me I'd probably skip replacing the binders for the above reasons as long as functionality isn't impaired, but I'd get the boy a new pair of skis and take my chances w/ Volkl's warranty dept. Done and done. Get the customer out of the picture ASAP with a smile on his face.

It's absolutely not worth it, by ANY stretch of the imagination, to fight over this. At the most I'm out replacement value, which I then can take up w/ the guy who's doing my tuning. At the least I'm not out anything at all. Either way everybody wins.

**GoldenGirl** · 01-25-2008, 10:53 AM

Had new ski's even been mentioned when this issue was first brought to my attention that solution would have been entertained immediately. It was simply stated that Gripen wanted to work something out with the guy who tuned his ski's. That's when I said I would deal with it on his behalf. There was never any mention of wanting his ski's replaced - "they ski fine but am worried about a future delam and being out a pair of ski's as warranty is void due to impact" - I agreed 100%. However, before I'm just going to hand over a new pair of ski's, or $$$, I need to verify that something actually happened while the ski's were in our hands. It was obvious that something had happened to those ski's, but like I previously mentioned, nothing was ever mentioned to myself, or my staff, when the ski's were picked up. If Gripen didn't immediately notice the damage why would some random shop guy working behind the counter? Now that it has been confirmed that the damage was done by "us" the appropriate steps are being taken to rectify this situation. It wasn't until Thursday morning that Gripen came into the shop to let me know that he felt "the guy who tuned his ski's" owes him a "new pair of boards" - this was the first time replacements were even mentioned & a completely justified request. Gripen has acted in a more than reasonable manner and has never been out of line. I do not take offence to him posting a thread looking for justified and broad opinions. I do take offence to the insinuations of what a "good business owner" would, or should, have done by a bunch of on-lookers who have no direct involvement, other than this thread, to the situation.

Its an uphill battle trying to justify actions taken/not taken, in a public chat forum, because there are always going to be people who feel they know better and need post that one last reply... post away, make your opinions known to the masses, but until you've traded places with any business owner don't pretend that you know what immediately should or should not have been done... this will be my last post as my dealings and concerns are with Gripen.

Gripen, it has been a pleasure dealing with you thus far and I appreciate you not slandering Darkside across the TGR forum/internet - many, probably the majority, would not have acted in such a respectable,civilized manner. I trust that you know your situation is being dealt with and will be put behind us Monday morning as you and I agreed in the shop.

**phUnk** · 01-25-2008, 11:15 AM

Robyn sounds like a stand-up shop owner, and I'd have no reservations about taking my skis there to get worked on. Bravo!

**jepilot** · 01-25-2008, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by phUnk

Robyn sounds like a stand-up shop owner, and I'd have no reservations about taking my skis there to get worked on. Bravo!

x2...good on ya

**Core Shot** · 01-25-2008, 11:31 AM

Shit happens. Its how biz owners deal with that shit that makes the difference.

Robyn understands customer satisfaction.
I think this issue is going to be resolved properly.

Also, to Robyn's defense, from Gripen's first posts it was clear that he was a little waffly on what he should be entitled to as compensation.
Most of us would have gone ape shit over damage like that, but he seems pretty freaking mellow.
Perhaps too mellow to have made it to the "business owner radar" level of interaction.
He seemed to think a little "repair" might be enough.
If he was that meek with the shop clerk, then it is no surprise that the extent of his insult and injury was not communicated to higher ups.

**GoldenRider1** · 01-25-2008, 11:47 AM

I also live in Golden and know this shop, and 'their' tune guy..... it's funny that you people can't understand the situation, I think you are too stuck on big city thinking or something. Golden is a real small town, where people know people, and help each other out when they can. When a budding ski tune business trys to make ends meet by cutting a store front out of their costs, but a friend owns a succesful downtown shop with business hours sufficient of allowing people to drop off and pick up their gear, it seems like a pretty good solution to help one another out. The shop potentially gets helped out by bringing people in the door, maybe they only came to pick up their skis, but then see some goggles they want etc. That's how it should work I guess.

If you want a shirt dry cleaned in golden, do you know where you take it? Redi-Mart, that's a gas station. What do they do with it? Nothing really, hang onto it until a drycleaning business from Cranbrook picks it up and then returns it. Yes Redi-Mart also collects your money for the service and then hands it over to the cleaner, minus a small percentage for their time. So, if you get a shirt damaged during a dryclean job what do you do? Go back to Redi-Mart, of course, but what does Redi-Mart do? They probably act as the middle man between you and the cleaning company, or put you in contact with them directly..... but do they owe you a new shirt? Same thing in this situation, only it's skis, not a shirt.
As for the appearance of the shop owner, I don't know why that matters in this case but I can assure you she is smokin' hot. Like most websites I assume TGR is full of homely looking single douche bags that still use the internet as the main source of romance in their lives, so yah, imagine away.
I think it's kind of a shame that this guy went to the internet for answers, it's either a bragging or complaining situation more than it is asking for advice, I think, cause really everyone knows how fruitless internet discussions are. Case in point, this thread, will this thread change the outcome of the matter? No. So really what it has done is brought a few hundred douche bags into the picture that didn't need to be involved, and given a very respectable shop owner a reason to worry about her reputation on the internet, when really it sounds like the matter was being dealt with anyway.

Oh yah, back to the dry cleaning analogy, if you wear the shirt out to a dinner party, then bring it back and say oh look I found these marks, do you think they do much more than laugh at you? When it has been stated so many times that maybe the tune guy had them fall off of his truck, but the guy has used the skis in between the tune and pointing out the damage, who's to say they didn't fall out of his truck?

Cheers.

**trainnvain** · 01-25-2008, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by GoldenRider1

I also live in Golden and know this shop, and 'their' tune guy..... it's funny that you people can't understand the situation, I think you are too stuck on big city thinking or something. Golden is a real small town, where people know people, and help each other out when they can. When a budding ski tune business trys to make ends meet by cutting a store front out of their costs, but a friend owns a succesful downtown shop with business hours sufficient of allowing people to drop off and pick up their gear, it seems like a pretty good solution to help one another out. The shop potentially gets helped out by bringing people in the door, maybe they only came to pick up their skis, but then see some goggles they want etc. That's how it should work I guess.

If you want a shirt dry cleaned in golden, do you know where you take it? Redi-Mart, that's a gas station. What do they do with it? Nothing really, hang onto it until a drycleaning business from Cranbrook picks it up and then returns it. Yes Redi-Mart also collects your money for the service and then hands it over to the cleaner, minus a small percentage for their time. So, if you get a shirt damaged during a dryclean job what do you do? Go back to Redi-Mart, of course, but what does Redi-Mart do? They probably act as the middle man between you and the cleaning company, or put you in contact with them directly..... but do they owe you a new shirt? Same thing in this situation, only it's skis, not a shirt.
As for the appearance of the shop owner, I don't know why that matters in this case but I can assure you she is smokin' hot. Like most websites I assume TGR is full of homely looking single douche bags that still use the internet as the main source of romance in their lives, so yah, imagine away.
I think it's kind of a shame that this guy went to the internet for answers, it's either a bragging or complaining situation more than it is asking for advice, I think, cause really everyone knows how fruitless internet discussions are. Case in point, this thread, will this thread change the outcome of the matter? No. So really what it has done is brought a few hundred douche bags into the picture that didn't need to be involved, and given a very respectable shop owner a reason to worry about her reputation on the internet, when really it sounds like the matter was being dealt with anyway.

Oh yah, back to the dry cleaning analogy, if you wear the shirt out to a dinner party, then bring it back and say oh look I found these marks, do you think they do much more than laugh at you? When it has been stated so many times that maybe the tune guy had them fall off of his truck, but the guy has used the skis in between the tune and pointing out the damage, who's to say they didn't fall out of his truck?

Cheers.

I didnt read it as bragging or complaining at all. I think he was just asking advise on a particular situation.
He was very civil, so was Robyn.
You, on the other hand, are and ass. Go away.

**GoldenRider1** · 01-25-2008, 11:58 AM

I knew my post would touch close to home with some of you, your response is as I expected......but the real question, did you type that one handed while thinking of a hot naked shop owner?

**focus** · 01-25-2008, 12:19 PM

1. Good on you, Robyn.

2. In the board's defense, a lot of the people who posted in this thread are or have been store owners/managers, and to a great extent the discussion became abstracted from the real situation. What's right, what's wrong, what should and what shouldn't happen. Don't take it all personally.

3. You should stick around. This isn't a bad place, really.