OBAMA FUCKING WON

[doughboyshredder]

After Clinton I and before Bush II, I might've given that statement some thought.
Now I just laugh.

At least we'll deal with climate change.

So we will deal with something is pretty much political nonsense, instead of dealing with the things that actually matter.

Global warming is just another war to divert the masses attention from what is actually happening in society.

Bush II is the worst president ever. He should definitely be impeached, and tried for war crimes. That being said, do you really think that any of the top tier candidates are going to take over the presidency and reverse the nonsense that has happened? The Dems are going to be just as excited at the prospect of increased presidential power as the republicans were. Nothing is going to change.

I saw in the paper today that McCain is calling himself the Republican candidate for change. Now that's a fucking joke.

[pheenster]

http://counterpunch.org/nader01072008.html

January 7, 2008
The Politics of the Smooth Mood
Obamarama

By RALPH NADER

The Obamarama Campaign Express was roaring down a New Hampshire highway near Nashua when an aide spotted the sprawling No Holds Barred Sports Bar. "Let's stop the bus," she urged, "and do some random schmoozing."

Obama and his entourage poured out of the bus and headed for the front door, over which hung a large sign: "HOME OF THE POLI-BEER: WHERE BOOZE, POLITICS AND SPORTS MIX IT UP!"

Inside the packed bar, the guys and gals were gathering for the Big Game to start. Before the game, however, there was an hour for political talk time. Their eyes widened in amazement when they saw Barack, bounding through the doorway with his secret service detail.

The bar had a big pit, with a huge crackling fireplace, where the patrons have their regular give and take. Obama was ready for some of that.

He started: "I stand for change. They said we set our sights too high in Iowa. They said now is not the time. I proved the cynics wrong in corn country and I'll prove them wrong in the granite state. To show you I mean it, no speech, go at me. Our time for change has come."

Guy number one-"Ok, Barack, you're going for the power in the Big House, the big companies already have the power, how ya gonna make us little people powerful?"

Obama-"Stay tuned. One leap at a time. We are one people. Get me there first."

Gal number one-"You say, CHANGE, well how are you going to cut the bloated military budget full of vast waste, fraud and abuse, when you've specifically said you'll 'expand and modernize the military?' Why, it's already half or more of the government's operating budget, squeezing programs for children, health and all that. I'm an accountant and I know numbers."

Obama-"Exactly. Our time for change has come. I'm going to change the old weapons with new weapons and the old soldiers with the new soldiers. That's real change-at the grass roots."

Guy number two-"You don't seem to have any rough edges, Barack."

Obama-"It's all about the mood, dude."

The crowd was getting agitated and the questions came faster and faster.

"Why are you for nuclear power with taxpayer guarantees?"

"Will you oppose Congress getting pay raises, pensions and health insurance until the American people get the same?"

"Do you favor repealing the anti-union nightmare-the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947?"

"How can you talk about change and take gobs of campaign money from the big corporate lawyers and bosses?"

Obama, smiling: "It's ALL about the mood, dudes. All the rest are details you can look up on my website-obama_is_us.org. We are choosing hope over fear."

Gal number two-"Ok, answer this one that probably isn't on your website. When are you going to meet with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and campaign in the black ghettos-say Harlem or Watts?"

Obama-"Whoaa, give that tough lady a Poli-beer on me! We are one nation."

Guy number three (with an Obama face mask)-"I'm the old Obama, remember me? I was for single-payer, full medicare for everyone. I was strongly for Palestinian rights and for replacing NAFTA and WTO, not for tweaking them. I was for taxing the super-rich and defending class actions. I was for capping credit-card and loan shark interest rates. What happened to me?"

Obama-"Well, didn't I tell you that I stand for CHANGE?"

Gal number three-"You seem to be for everyone, but not everyone is for everyone. Some are against everyone. Tell me, are the big corporations, the greedy defense contractors, drug, oil and insurance companies, starting to quake in their boots at the thought that you are now the front-runner?"

Obama, lifting his chin-"Well, Ma'am, we haven't ordered our seismometer yet."

Oooohs and boos float around the pit. A few start drifting away.

Guy number four-"You're one of those smart Haavard lawyers, Barack. You were a constitutional law teacher. You were against the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So, why aren't you putting two and two together-impeachment of the war criminals in the White House followed by conviction in the Senate?"

Obama-"You don't understand (testily), impeachment talk is just more of the same old Washington politics. I stand for change. No need to point fingers. We are one people."

Gal number four-"Hello, Barack. I'm Hermaphrodite and I luv your blended politics of harmony."

Obama-"Great! Then how about a quick dance around the bar before we have to leave," he said, humming to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic-"We are choosing unity over division, we're sending a powerful message, that change is a coming to America, it is all about the mood, dude"

Ralph Nader is the author of The Seventeen Traditions

That's pretty rich coming from the guy who gave the world 8 years of GWB.

[doughboyshredder]

That's pretty rich coming from the guy who gave the world 8 years of GWB.

Now THAT is Bullshit!

The dem's gave us 8 years of GWB by not fielding a good enough candidate to fight off a 3rd party run by a nutjob like Nader.

3rd party candidates should not be blamed for the failings of our political system.

[Tippster]

Sorry - Nader gave us GWB. Take his Uber-Liberal voters, district by district, and add them to Gore's in 2000 and Gore wins -- Kerry in 2004 and Kerry wins. Simple Math.

Then again, using the same math, Ross Perot's decision to run as a 3rd Party Conservative Candidate gave us the best POTUS of my lifetime... twice. Thanks, Ross!

[Jer]

... political nonsense ... the things that actually matter ... another war to divert the masses attention from what is actually happening ... Nothing is going to change.

I'd argue with you if I thought you were worth it. But the bar's gone up, gotta have at least 10% meaningful content AND less than 30% fruitbattery to qualify.

I saw in the paper today that McCain is calling himself the Republican candidate for change. Now that's a fucking joke.

Given the state of his campaign finances, he'd call himself anything for some spare change.

Hillary: standing for change - for 35 years!

'Scuse me, I gotta go implement some real change. Diaper-type change.

[pheenster]

Now THAT is Bullshit!

The dem's gave us 8 years of GWB by not fielding a good enough candidate to fight off a 3rd party run by a nutjob like Nader.

3rd party candidates should not be blamed for the failings of our political system.

First of all, as I'm a Canadian it's not my political system. I'm a political junkie, though, and I find your system fascinating (and in some ways much more interesting than my own).

And in principle, you're right, of course, but the numbers don't lie. No Nader, no Bush. And Nader running down Obama, like Ralph has some kind of monopoly over effecting "real change" (whatever that might be), comes across as sour grapes.

Anyway, I'm going to withdraw from this conversation. I really shouldn't have posted in the first place, as your internal politics are your own business and really none of mine (or anybody else's without U.S. citizenship). Like I said, though, I find the process fascinating. I'll be glued to CNN tomorrow night for sure.

[timvwcom]

...I really shouldn't have posted in the first place, as your internal politics are your own business and really none of mine (or anybody else's without U.S. citizenship)...

Incorrect Sir, your opinion and insight are very much appreciated! That is all...

[Spats]

Sorry - Nader gave us GWB. Take his Uber-Liberal voters, district by district, and add them to Gore's in 2000 and Gore wins -- Kerry in 2004 and Kerry wins. Simple Math.

That's like saying "If piss was beer, I could pour you a round."

Gore opposed raising the minimum wage, supported NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO, favored repeal of the federal guarantee of assistance to poor children, and never made any noise about massive corporate subsidies. Gore gambled that he could pick up more votes from the center than he lost from the left, and he lost the gamble. Neither he nor you should be surprised by this, and pretending that Nader supporters somehow "owed" Gore their votes, when Gore's platform was much closer to Bush's than to Nader's, is silly.

[pheenster]

Incorrect Sir, your opinion and insight are very much appreciated! That is all...

Well, thanks. I may drop a couple more comments in between now and November!

[philippeR]

First of all, as I'm a Canadian it's not my political system. I'm a political junkie, though, and I find your system fascinating (and in some ways much more interesting than my own).

And in principle, you're right, of course, but the numbers don't lie. No Nader, no Bush. And Nader running down Obama, like Ralph has some kind of monopoly over effecting "real change" (whatever that might be), comes across as sour grapes.

Anyway, I'm going to withdraw from this conversation. I really shouldn't have posted in the first place, as your internal politics are your own business and really none of mine (or anybody else's without U.S. citizenship). Like I said, though, I find the process fascinating. I'll be glued to CNN tomorrow night for sure.

Of course it is our business as non US citizens ! We don't vote, but the result of this election will definitely impact us.
When you're in Gaul, you need to care for Rome's politics...

[Tippster]

http://counterpunch.org/nader01072008.html

January 7, 2008
The Politics of the Smooth Mood
Obamarama

By RALPH NADER

The Obamarama Campaign Express was roaring down a New Hampshire highway near Nashua when an aide spotted the sprawling No Holds Barred Sports Bar. "Let's stop the bus," she urged, "and do some random schmoozing."

Obama and his entourage poured out of the bus and headed for the front door, over which hung a large sign: "HOME OF THE POLI-BEER: WHERE BOOZE, POLITICS AND SPORTS MIX IT UP!"

Inside the packed bar, the guys and gals were gathering for the Big Game to start. Before the game, however, there was an hour for political talk time. Their eyes widened in amazement when they saw Barack, bounding through the doorway with his secret service detail.

The bar had a big pit, with a huge crackling fireplace, where the patrons have their regular give and take. Obama was ready for some of that.

He started: "I stand for change. They said we set our sights too high in Iowa. They said now is not the time. I proved the cynics wrong in corn country and I'll prove them wrong in the granite state. To show you I mean it, no speech, go at me. Our time for change has come."

Guy number one-"Ok, Barack, you're going for the power in the Big House, the big companies already have the power, how ya gonna make us little people powerful?"

Obama-"Stay tuned. One leap at a time. We are one people. Get me there first."

Gal number one-"You say, CHANGE, well how are you going to cut the bloated military budget full of vast waste, fraud and abuse, when you've specifically said you'll 'expand and modernize the military?' Why, it's already half or more of the government's operating budget, squeezing programs for children, health and all that. I'm an accountant and I know numbers."

Obama-"Exactly. Our time for change has come. I'm going to change the old weapons with new weapons and the old soldiers with the new soldiers. That's real change-at the grass roots."

Guy number two-"You don't seem to have any rough edges, Barack."

Obama-"It's all about the mood, dude."

The crowd was getting agitated and the questions came faster and faster.

"Why are you for nuclear power with taxpayer guarantees?"

"Will you oppose Congress getting pay raises, pensions and health insurance until the American people get the same?"

"Do you favor repealing the anti-union nightmare-the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947?"

"How can you talk about change and take gobs of campaign money from the big corporate lawyers and bosses?"

Obama, smiling: "It's ALL about the mood, dudes. All the rest are details you can look up on my website-obama_is_us.org. We are choosing hope over fear."

Gal number two-"Ok, answer this one that probably isn't on your website. When are you going to meet with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and campaign in the black ghettos-say Harlem or Watts?"

Obama-"Whoaa, give that tough lady a Poli-beer on me! We are one nation."

Guy number three (with an Obama face mask)-"I'm the old Obama, remember me? I was for single-payer, full medicare for everyone. I was strongly for Palestinian rights and for replacing NAFTA and WTO, not for tweaking them. I was for taxing the super-rich and defending class actions. I was for capping credit-card and loan shark interest rates. What happened to me?"

Obama-"Well, didn't I tell you that I stand for CHANGE?"

Gal number three-"You seem to be for everyone, but not everyone is for everyone. Some are against everyone. Tell me, are the big corporations, the greedy defense contractors, drug, oil and insurance companies, starting to quake in their boots at the thought that you are now the front-runner?"

Obama, lifting his chin-"Well, Ma'am, we haven't ordered our seismometer yet."

Oooohs and boos float around the pit. A few start drifting away.

Guy number four-"You're one of those smart Haavard lawyers, Barack. You were a constitutional law teacher. You were against the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So, why aren't you putting two and two together-impeachment of the war criminals in the White House followed by conviction in the Senate?"

Obama-"You don't understand (testily), impeachment talk is just more of the same old Washington politics. I stand for change. No need to point fingers. We are one people."

Gal number four-"Hello, Barack. I'm Hermaphrodite and I luv your blended politics of harmony."

Obama-"Great! Then how about a quick dance around the bar before we have to leave," he said, humming to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic-"We are choosing unity over division, we're sending a powerful message, that change is a coming to America, it is all about the mood, dude"

Ralph Nader is the author of The Seventeen Traditions

Just joining the unnecessarily long quote crowd.

Ralph Nader is a sad, sad man. His problem was he kept telling us how he would fundamentally change the way Government works, when everyone with a fucking clue knew that wasn't gonna happen.

[spook]

Just joining the unnecessarily long quote crowd.

Ralph Nader is a sad, sad man. His problem was he kept telling us how he would fundamentally change the way Government works, when everyone with a fucking clue knew that wasn't gonna happen.

ralph nader is not a sad man. we are a pathetic country and we (or should i say, more of us) are finally starting to get what we've got coming. only knee-jerk, whiny tools believe nader gave us bush. we're that ugly. bush is exactly what we deserve, as your statement (and gore, obama, hillary and edwards) so cogently demonstrates.

i can't wait for us to get more of what we deserve in 2008.

[13]

ralph nader is not a sad man. we are a pathetic country and we (or should i say, more of us) are finally starting to get what we've got coming. only knee-jerk, whiny tools believe nader gave us bush. we're that ugly. bush is exactly what we deserve, as your statement (and gore, obama, hillary and edwards) so cogently demonstrates.

i can't wait for us to get more of what we deserve in 2008.

dear debbie downer,

let us know when you want contribute something other than pessimistic bitching.

[spook]

dear debbie downer,

let us know when you want contribute something other than pessimistic bitching.

dear bobbie blue skies,

let me know when you can face reality. then we could have an honest discourse about how we got past so many points of no return. if you work to expose your illusion of supremacy over all things and entitlement to a happy ending at all costs, that would be a good start.

love,

deb

[DharmaBum]

Should I be worried, I keep finding that I agree with Spook on alot of things? He's nailed this one though. The status quo shit that goes on while we argue about the war and follow Britney into rehab would scare the hell out of most people. It isn't what we know, it's the shit we don't know. Reality is not what appears on the major networks.

[13]

dear bobbie blue skies,

let me know when you can face reality. then we could have an honest discourse about how we got past so many points of no return. if you work to expose your illusion of supremacy over all things and entitlement to a happy ending at all costs, that would be a good start.

love,

deb

not sure where you got that from, but whatever. no skin off my back.

judging from your posts in this thread, you seem like you'd rather sit on your ass and "discourse" rather than get out and attempt to effect the changes you'd like to unfold. guess what? that makes you a spineless bitch. even if they don't happen immediately, at least you've made some attempt at influence. example: howard dean.

i sure hope i'm wrong about you, though.

[spook]

not sure where you got that from, but whatever. no skin off my back.

judging from your posts in this thread, you seem like you'd rather sit on your ass and "discourse" rather than get out and attempt to effect the changes you'd like to unfold. guess what? that makes you a spineless bitch. even if they don't happen immediately, at least you've made some attempt at influence. example: howard dean.

i sure hope i'm wrong about you, though.

it was directed at the population that considers realistic appraisal acknowledging not only what we have done but what we cannot undo to be pessimistic.

propaganda and other forms of bullshit are the first dead weights that have to be jettisoned in a crisis situation. if one were looking at some other planet with inhabitants facing the same situation, it would be easy to see the thinking/belief errors and it would also be easy to recognize the inevitability of the general outcome.

sitting on one's ass and "discoursing" would be time well spent if it diminishes the typical reinforcement of the mythology that got us here. obviously, it is cannot be the entire effort, even if you were to assume that the current framework could somehow miraculously be maintained in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary and the absurdity of the premise. if you can't make that leap, then speaking out of principle may be egomaniacal, but how else do flawed humans face insanity?

howard dean is a tweaker, not a revolutionary. the minute "change" he represents and its outcome just shows how far gone into absurdity we are. tweakers won't save us.

[lifts4turns]

Clinton has 40% in NH? wtf, I guess crying on television gets you votes!

[dipstik]

"MANCHESTER, N.H. (CNN) — With 12 percent of precincts reporting in the New Hampshire Republican primary, CNN has projected Sen. John McCain of Arizona as the winner of the nation's first GOP primary with 37 percent of the vote."


WTF? I don't get it - how can they project who is going to win when only 12% of the votes are in?? It seems like the major news stations are just rushing to be the first to declare a winner, regardless of accuracy.

[13]

WTF? I don't get it - how can they project who is going to win when only 12% of the votes are in?? It seems like the major news stations are just rushing to be the first to declare a winner, regardless of accuracy.

it's the media, hence the rush. i wouldn't accuse the media outlets of being accurate anyway.

the 12% could be a random sampling taken from all over the state and using said samples to project the outcome of the total population of voters. statistically it is actually a fairly reliable method.

[Gripen]

Anyway, I'm going to withdraw from this conversation. I really shouldn't have posted in the first place, as your internal politics are your own business and really none of mine (or anybody else's without U.S. citizenship). Like I said, though, I find the process fascinating. I'll be glued to CNN tomorrow night for sure.

Just wanted to second timvwcom, I think its great that you are interested in politics other then your own nations. As an American citizen living in Canada I try very hard to keep up with both nations politics as well as Sweden's as it has a direct impact for school/work.

The more you learn about others systems the more you learn about your own, it certainly highlights each systems strengths and weaknesses.

IMHO you are more then welcome to contribute to discussion on US politics as I would hope that I could be included in a discussion on Canadian.

[uglymoney]

Remember when politics in America was boring and predictable?

I like it this way much better!

Looks like Obama may have to talk about some issues after all. We'll see how the night winds up.

My other thought, what happens if/when Edwards gets washed out? How do Clinton and Obama split his votes - who if anyone would get a boost? > myself an Edwards supporter like the Obama poetry but the politics of Clinton.

Glad to see McCain pull out the V. Sensibility returns to the Republicans momentarily. Amazing he remains viable after dropping the ball so many times. Shows the weakness of the republican candidates.

[lifts4turns]

I would guess that Edwards hangs on until he can cut a deal for VP. Probably with Obama based on his youtube attacks on Clinton ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggO5yY7RAo ) and the hand job he administered Obama in the last debate.

[Core Shot]

AP just called Hillary winner in NH.

Hah Ha [/Muntz]

[MassLiberal]

I'm fucking exhausted. I can't believe we won. I came into the office this morning thinking that if we lost by less than five percent, we could still claim a victory, I'm shocked that we pulled it out.

Barack needs to start getting specific if he wants to win, and even if he does capture the nomination, today's reality check will make him a stronger candidate. I guess I get to keep my job.

Core Shot, want to go skiing sometime soon?