OBAMA FUCKING WON

[CUBUCK]

Anybody watching this debate? f'n brutal!

Expected some punches to be thrown by now.

[MassLiberal]

It's all kumbaya and stuff.

but they are going to debate character in a bit

[Steven S. Dallas]

They went from pretty adversarial to pretty touchy-feely towards the end of that drivers' license thing. I am solidly with Obama on that issue, but c'mon, this is an issue?

Obama is much better on the stump than he is in the debates.

[pheenster]

Yes that Tony Blair. If nothing else it would be kind of amusing to see the one-time leftish winger and great friend of Bill Clinton who turned born-gain catholic, neocon, war hawk and Bush ball stroker supporting a Dem. candidate. Plus he's one of the few people on the planet that can stand next to Hilary Clinton and make her look slightly less greedy for power.

Actually, I mentioned him because I'd seen the subject in a number of articles some of which were GASP not written in Amurika. Some people think such stuff and places and their opinions are important. I'm sorry if that irritates your delicate posterior.

So I take it you'll have no objections when the pope weighs in with his opinions on the topic?

[Platinum Pete]

Rumor around the office: Richardson to endorse Clinton tomorrow, Biden on Monday.

The whole endorsement process is so weird.
Is the Hilary campaign going to pay off their campaign debts like they did with Vilsack?

[MarsB]

MoveOn is gonna endorse one or the other now. They're polling their members.

Obama gets the MoveOn endorsement, received 70.4% of the vote

[Jer]

With that kind of margin, I'm surprised they didn't endorse him earlier.

Regardless of which one ends up President, they're gonna hafta watch like a hawk to keep 'em on target.

[RootSkier]

[Benny Profane]

So, I just had a revelation after consuming a Progresso microwave chicken soup thing. I'll explain.

First, I don't normally, or hardly ever, eat stuff like this. I like to eat real food, low in fat, for health reasons. But I always marvel, in a way, at the results of the industrialisation of food delivery over the last 50 years. Many rag on the harmful nature of this development in human evolution, including myself. Bad for the health of the consumer, bad for the enviorment. Or, is it? Healthwise, we have reached a stage in our evolution, when the most basic of our needs, a problem that society has dealt with since we have left the safety of small hunter gatherer underpopulated regions has been met, which is, of course, hunger. Now, some of the poorest of Americans can consume more than their daily caloric needs by driving up to a window down the street and paying someone a very reasonable fee, or go down to a local store and purchase one of these products, like my soup, for a nominal fee, and not be hungry with minimal effort or cost. (we'll not get into the sodium problem or obesity right now, OK?) This is a marvelous stage in history. Hell, at the turn of the 20th century, the life expentancy of the average American male was 50. 50! Because he was a farmer living that horrible grind, and, if he was injured at any time of his life, he was doomed. And most were lucky to make it to the spring without seeing a family member die of hunger or disease almost every year.

So, anyhoo, my point, here, in a political thread. Much has been said about the Kennedy thing lately. Those wonderful, saintly, Kennedys. Like, Bobby, who made a real big fucking deal how he was going to eradicate hunger in America. Much like the establishment Dems are still trying to convince us that they are going to eradicate all the bad in the world for us poor schmucks. Bad medical care, high priced energy, even, jezuz, hunger. Now, just imagine if Bobby lived and won and we had a prez like him since then. Do you think we would have cheap food for the masses as we do now? Do you think they would have allowed that industry to form and prosper? Fuck, no. It would have been regulated to an early death.

Listen, I don't want to see the Republicans give us another town drunk/fool for another 8 years, but, people, get real. Do you really think that the average voter living in such comfort is going to vote for this old school Boston bullshit? And a friggin black guy with a muslim name? Remember, fucking Huckabee won Iowa. That tells you upper middle class skier types what Red is all about. And, I fear, we'll have someone of his ilk runnng the show again. God help us.

[SunCuntry]

has obama cock the biggest

[timvwcom]

...Huckabee won Iowa...

Sorry Benny, but I've gotta remind you Huck didn't win Iowa. He won the Republican side of a caucus; the smaller half of a small fraction of eligible or likely voters there...

...And a friggin black guy with a muslim name?...

Yes, I think he could... not sure he will, but if he wins Dems side, I think he could.

[RootSkier]

And a friggin black guy with a muslim name? Remember, fucking Huckabee won Iowa.

Benny, go dig your fucking ignorant ass a hole in the ground and lie down in it. You spew more bullshit than any of the other 10 worst delusional maggots combined.

[Tippster]

...Much has been said about the Kennedy thing lately. Those wonderful, saintly, Kennedys. Like, Bobby, who made a real big fucking deal how he was going to eradicate hunger in America. Much like the establishment Dems are still trying to convince us that they are going to eradicate all the bad in the world for us poor schmucks. Bad medical care, high priced energy, even, jezuz, hunger. Now, just imagine if Bobby lived and won and we had a prez like him since then. Do you think we would have cheap food for the masses as we do now? Do you think they would have allowed that industry to form and prosper? Fuck, no. It would have been regulated to an early death.

Benny - it worked. People don't starve any more in the richest country in the world. Had it been up to the conservatives they would have been left to fend, and die, for themselves.

If you hurt yourself critically the next time you were skiing you'd be on that medical care bandwagon in a heartbeat. If you couldn't worl any more, hell - if you were relegated to a wheelchair and dependent on food stamps you'd be all for mandated access and the pubic trough.

Only healthy wealthy people rail against "entitlements." There's a reason why the AARP endorsess Democrats en masse.

[rideit]

I STILL think Pizza is a fantastic food.

Glad I could contribute.

[Tippster]

I STILL think Pizza is a fantastic food.

Glad I could contribute.

It's got all 4 food groups in each slice (assuming you're not a fucking Veg.)

Grains (the dough)
Dairy (the Cheese)
Vegetables (the Sauce and Mushrooms)
and Protein (the Sausage)

Did I mention that I like Sausage/Mushroom/X-Cheese pies?

[rideit]

Calzones also count.

[Benny Profane]

Sorry Benny, but I've gotta remind you Huck didn't win Iowa. He won the Republican side of a caucus; the smaller half of a small fraction of eligible or likely voters there...



Yes, I think he could... not sure he will, but if he wins Dems side, I think he could.

So you think that the same voting public that put this moron in office for eight years, the same people who were manipulated with the Swift Boat bullshit (for God's sake, he was a medal recipient, and the other guy was a draft dodger), will vote for a young black male with a muslim name? Dude, you haven't even begun to hear the awful, nasty thngs that Rove and his friends have in their trick bag.

[Benny Profane]

Benny - it worked. People don't starve any more in the richest country in the world. Had it been up to the conservatives they would have been left to fend, and die, for themselves.

You mised my point. The government didn't do this. Private industry driven by the market did. And, well, government farms subsidies helped a lot, too.

[timvwcom]

You mised my point. The government didn't do this. Private industry driven by the market did. And, well, government farms subsidies helped a lot, too.

Two sentences to a complete "U-turn"??? Benny, Benny... Post then crack mang, post then crack...

So you think that the same voting public that put this moron in office for eight years, the same people who were manipulated with the Swift Boat bullshit (for God's sake, he was a medal recipient, and the other guy was a draft dodger), will vote for a young black male with a muslim name? Dude, you haven't even begun to hear the awful, nasty thngs that Rove and his friends have in their trick bag.

On this issue... the veneer of the Republican party fell off within a year after the last Prez election. There are still the die-hards and whackos, but that 33% is NOT the 45% or whatever it was they started with the last time around. I know Rove et all have dug for more shit on Obama or Clinton, hell Rove is almost bragging about it already... he ends THIS article saying "Lots of surprises lie ahead." but I HOPE that like in the last mid terms, Rove's head is WAY bigger than his bag of dirty tricks. I do give Obama a decent chance if he wins the Dems side, not a shoe-in, but a good chance. I think America might be ready!

The fun part is seeing how it all plays out!!!

[Mathematics]

On this issue... the veneer of the Republican party fell off within a year after the last Prez election. There are still the die-hards and whackos, but that 33% is NOT the 45% or whatever it was they started with the last time around.

the biggest handicap most democrats have is the assumption their "common sense" viewpoint is shared by the rest of the country. large chunks of republicans may not be happy with bush, but I guarantee you they're not going to vote for barack and especially not hilary this time around. and if the evangelicals come out and vote (which they may not with mccain) this election could very likely go republican again.

[RootSkier]

[skibuminwyo]

finally watched that vid through. solid root, solid.

[spook]

February 4, 2008
Why There's No Hope for Change
MoveOn's Obama Endorsement

By JOSHUA FRANK

MoveOn is mobilizing. The "antiwar" group's Political Action members across the country voted overwhelmingly to endorse the Democratic candidacy of Barack Obama last week. MoveOn claims to have 1.7 million members in states that vote in Tuesday's primaries. "[Our] endorsement means a fresh infusion of people-power for Obama in the critical days before Super Tuesday," read the organization's press release. "MoveOn will immediately connect thousands of progressive activists into the Obama" volunteer operation.

Obama's campaign is no doubt pleased, for its mantra of "hope" and "change" has begun to echo in the deep subconscious of many well-intentioned progressives. Obama's best quality at this point seems to be the fact that he's not a Clinton. When it comes to foreign policy, however, he may as well be, which makes MoveOn's shallow approval of his candidacy all the more hypocritical.

After Obama won his senatorial race in 2004 he quickly abandoned the antiwar rhetoric he had touted along the campaign trail. While remaining critical of the White House and the lies that pushed us towards war, Obama still maintained that US military should remain in Iraq until the job was completed.

"Given the enormous stakes in Iraq, I believe that those of us who are involved in shaping our national security policies should do what we believe is right, not merely what is politically expedient," Obama proclaimed in a speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations in late November 2005. "In sum, we have to focus, methodically and without partisanship, on those steps that will: one, stabilize Iraq, avoid all out civil war, and give the factions within Iraq the space they need to forge a political settlement; two, contain and ultimately extinguish the insurgency in Iraq; and three, bring our troops safely home."

Obama continues to favor a "phased redeployment" of our troops as well as "benchmarks" for the Iraqi government, but promises to not "fully withdraw" -- hence why the Illinois senator has supported the majority of Bush administration's pork-engorged appropriation bills that are draining the U.S. Treasury. Obama wants to keep cadres of troops throughout Iraq with others all other the region to strike if necessary.

So where would President Obama send the troops he's redeployed? A good guess might be Iran.

As Obama told the <em>Chicago Tribune</em> on September 26, 2004, "[T]he big question is going to be, if Iran is resistant to these pressures [to stop its nuclear program], including economic sanctions, which I hope will be imposed if they do not cooperate, at what point . . . if any, are we going to take military action?"

He added, "[L]aunching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in" given the ongoing war in Iraq. "On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse." Obama went on to argue that military strikes on Pakistan should not be ruled out if "violent Islamic extremists" were to "take over."

"[Iran] is a genuine threat" to the United States and Israel, Obama later expressed at a forum sponsored by AIPAC on March 12, 2007 in Washington D.C. At the event Obama reiterated that he would not rule out the use of force in disarming Iran, a position he shares with rival Hillary Clinton.

Earlier that same month, on March 2 2007, Obama spoke at an AIPAC Policy Forum in Chicago, where he succinctly laid out his position on how he would deal with the Middle East, promising not to alter the U.S.'s lopsided relationship with Israel. "[W]e must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs," he said. "This would help Israel maintain its military edge and deter and repel attacks from as far as Tehran and as close as Gaza."

How could any critic of the war machine support a candidate like Barack Obama? MoveOn has quite a long history of supporting Democratic candidates, despite said politician's allegiance to the Bush doctrine -- so their support of Obama doesn't come as much of a surprise. But even CODEPINK stalwarts like Jodie Evans and Nancy Kricorian (the latter runs the popular ListenHillary.org) have endorsed Obama for president.

Perhaps betrayal is contagious.

In the end Super Tuesday, despite MoveOn's public frolicking, won't end up being all that super when the votes are finally tallied. A pro-war candidate from both major parties will likely solidify their side's nomination.

Joshua Frank is the co-editor of DissidentVoice.org, and author of Left Out! How Liberals Helped Reelect George W. Bush, and along with Jeffrey St. Clair, the editor of the forthcoming Red State Rebels, to be published by AK Press in March 2008. He can be reached through his website, BrickBurner.org.

http://counterpunch.org/frank02042008.html

[Ripzalot]

[365wp]

Dude, you haven't even begun to hear the awful, nasty thngs that Rove and his friends have in their trick bag.

I'm starting to think the Republicans foresee a recession, and are willing to almost concede to let a Democrat take the hit. Seriously.

Why else would the Republican party let McCain get this far? They've shut him down in previous elections. Why are they running Romney and McCain, two guys who, IMHO, don't have the Republican backing of somebody like Bush?

In the MA governor election, the Republicans ran Healey vs. Patrick. Patrick won in a landslide. There were other Republican candidates who would have at least made it a race. Feels like the same thing here.

Or, the Republican party is now as out of it as the Democrats were when they ran Kerry.

But I wouldn't really be surprised if we get a Democrat for a president and four years of Republican re-trenching, to emerge in 2012 with a new Republican "candidate for change."