WTF my PEs are made in China

**ak_powder_monkey** · 10-09-2003, 09:59 PM

I thought K2 was an all USA co. of course theywere only 350

**Plakespear** · 10-09-2003, 10:02 PM

Yup. Your Red White and Blue All American K2 skis are made in China. That;s what happens when you put Dan Quayle on your board of directors. When people come into my shop and ask why we don't carry 'em, I'll look them straight in the eye and ask them how many great skiers ever came from China.

**Maxler3** · 10-10-2003, 09:50 AM

does it really matter where the skis are made, theyre probably being made with better machines and to tighter tolerances than their operation in vashon, and theyre being made cheaper($425 retail for a pair of top of the line twins is unheard of, i got mine for $260). When i say cheaper i do not mean cheap materials, i mean the same quality materials in the product for a cheaper price. It was a very smart buisiness move. I hate to say it but americans arent' really all that good at manufacturing. look at cars, japanese and german cars are much better cars and definitely more inovative and reliable. K2 moving to china was a good thing and its stupid for your shop to stop carrying their product because of that.

**robokill1981** · 10-10-2003, 09:58 AM

Get over yourselves, not buying a pair of skis because they were made in China is just stupid.

**Beaver** · 10-10-2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by robokill1981
Get over yourselves, not buying a pair of skis because they were made in China is just stupid.

Man, I spent 2 months working in China. There is no way in hell that stuff made in china could be as good quality as stuff made in North America (including Mexico). The workers truely don't give a shit. The phrase "Made in China" is synonymous with "crap."

13 · 10-10-2003, 10:10 AM

AK & Plakespear,

Skis aren't the only things that are manufactured abroad these days. The cars we drive, the clothes we wear, and the oil we use all come from abroad.

If you want stuff that's made in the U.S.A., be prepared to pay a lot more. This is simply an effect of the higher cost of labor and manufacturing in the U.S.

So ... quit yer bitching!

Maxler -- the quality of American cars still lags behind the Japanese, but the gap is closing thanks to collaborative efforts between U.S. and Japanese automakers. GM & Toyota are one example, Ford's buyout of Mazda is another.

KQ · 10-10-2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Plakespear
Yup. Your Red White and Blue All American K2 skis are made in China. That;s what happens when you put Dan Quayle on your board of directors. When people come into my shop and ask why we don't carry 'em, I'll look them straight in the eye and ask them how many great skiers ever came from China.

There are so many contributing factors for why skiing is just now beginning to flourish in China that dismissing it like this is nothing but silly. Their time will come. They've already won at the World Cup aerial meet at Lake Placid, Jan. 2003.

Read on:

China's ski industry

I'm sure you carry skis made in other countries - why dis China? You're not.....oh no....couldn't be.....I won't even dare say it.

13 · 10-10-2003, 10:22 AM

That's for that link, KQ -- nice to know skiing in China is expanding.

There is so much unexplored terrain there -- no doubt some of it is sick!

Originally posted by KQ
I'm sure you carry skis made in other countries - why dis China? You're not.....oh no....couldn't be.....I won't even dare say it.

For what are we (Americans) if not hypocrites?

**ulty_guy** · 10-10-2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by 13
AK & Plakespear,

Skis aren't the only things that are manufactured abroad these days. The cars we drive, the clothes we wear, and the oil we use all come from abroad.

If you want stuff that's made in the U.S.A., be prepared to pay a lot more. This is simply an effect of the higher cost of labor and manufacturing in the U.S.

So ... quit yer bitching!

Maxler -- the quality of American cars still lags behind the Japanese, but the gap is closing thanks to collaborative efforts between U.S. and Japanese automakers. GM & Toyota are one example, Ford's buyout of Mazda is another.

um, i agree w/ most of what you're saying, but you're best to leave the cars out of it. fact of the matter is that people in japan have a very high standard of living, and the price they pay for raw materials is quite high.

**Pinner** · 10-10-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by 13
For what are we (Americans) if not hypocrites?

Fat, ignorant and arrogant?

EDIT: not you particularly, boo. All Americans.

KQ · 10-10-2003, 10:27 AM

Plakespear - I would like to add I feel the loss of jobs to overseas factories sucks but we've got to ask ourselves and our government "why is that and how can we reverse the trend?"

Edit : I'm a life long Washington resident. I've seen so many of our cultural icons leave town it just breaks my heart. When I visit Vashon and see the old K2 Headquarters I feel a bit of nostalgia. Watching the news the other night I heard the newscaster say "Chicago based Boeing Company." OUCH!!! Will we lose Starbucks next?

(I realize Boeing only went across the country but still it has to do with an unfavorable business environment)

**zion zig zag** · 10-10-2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by KQ
Plakespear - I would like to add I feel the loss of jobs to overseas factories sucks but we've got to ask ourselves and our government "why is that and how can we reverse the trend?"

we should've listened to h. ross perot when we had the chance

**AntiSoCalSkier** · 10-10-2003, 10:36 AM

I found this report on skiing in China on the same page KQ linked to (although there wasn't a direct link from her page. It's definitely a gaper report (the guy hadn't skied in 30 years, yet made comparisons between the Chinese ski school and Western ski schools, and was impressed with the "Swiss" skis they used), but it's still kind of interesting. Anyone up for a mini-summit?

**splat** · 10-10-2003, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by KQ
Plakespear - I would like to add I feel the loss of jobs to overseas factories sucks but we've got to ask ourselves and our government "why is that and how can we reverse the trend?"

Boeing split??? News to me. As for China, virtually all ski clothes are made there, too. PM Gear is looking at having some gloves made there. Couldn't even come close to making a salable glove in the US due to manufacturing costs here.

13 · 10-10-2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by ulty_guy um, i agree w/ most of what you're saying, but you're best to leave the cars out of it. fact of the matter is that people in japan have a very high standard of living, and the price they pay for raw materials is quite high.

You're correct about the cost of living. They may be skinny and short, but they're still livin' large and fat!

However, I was referring to Japanese vehicles that are sold in the U.S., not in Japan.

The cars sold in Japan are MILES ahead of U.S. vehicles in terms of quality and efficiency. This is largely due to the fact that Japan is a very crowded country and the cost of natural resources for them is very high.

It's a cultural thing. Basically I'm saying it's apples & oranges in a way.

**Grange** · 10-10-2003, 10:39 AM

look at cars, japanese and german cars are much better cars and definitely more inovative and reliable. [/QUOTE]

Many of the Japanese cars are being manufactured in the US therefore that argument doesn't hold as much weight as it used to. Now look at trucks. There is no question that I would rather own an American truck over a foreign truck and that includes Toyota, which probably makes one of the best foreign pickups on the market.

**Plakespear** · 10-10-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by KQ

I'm sure you carry skis made in other countries - why dis China? You're not.....oh no....couldn't be.....I won't even dare say it.

Umm, of course we carry skis that are not made in the USA. Know why? Because there are NO MAJOR SKI MANUFACTURERS in the USA!!!

A few years ago, K2's marketing was all about american flags and red, white, and blue graphics. I even bought a pair of K2's because I believe the best way to vote is with your wallet, and wanted to support the sole remaining American ski company (this was when they were still making skis in Vashon)

K2's move to China was spitting in the face of lots aof American workers- not just K2 employees. US corporations basically are saying that they don't care about their workers, just profits. Now, if you start saying that that is just the way corporations work, I'm have a feeling that the people in Austria making skis for Fischer and Atomic moght disagree with you. Just don't try contacting them during one of their four annual weeks of vacation time.

Maxler, comparing German manufacturing to Chinese is ludicris. How much stuff on the shelves at Wal-Mart has a sticker that says Made in Germany? And look at the cost of a basic German car. Sticker price on a new Jetta? More than my dad paid for his house in 1981. And it's been almost 60 years since German labor force had to live in fear of their own governments' secret police.

**Plakespear** · 10-10-2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by AntiSoCalSkier
and was impressed with the "Swiss" skis they used

Swiss skis? Damn right he should be impressed- Isn't the only Swiss ski company Stockli?

(Although I think there was some sarcasm intended in the original post)

KQ · 10-10-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Plakespear

K2's move to China was spitting in the face of lots aof American workers- not just K2 employees. US corporations basically are saying that they don't care about their workers, just profits. Now, if you start saying that that is just the way corporations work, I'm have a feeling that the people in Austria making skis for Fischer and Atomic moght disagree with you. Just don't try contacting them during one of their four annual weeks of vacation time.

I posted a second comment - yes, American corps going overseas sucks. It's an issue our population and government are overdue to address.

**UTdave** · 10-10-2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Pinner
Fat, ignorant and arrogant?

I resent the implication that I am all of these. Maybe two of them from time to time

but I'm not fat

**joshbu** · 10-10-2003, 11:00 AM

What you are essentially complaining about is called globalism.

You better hold on to yer britches, becuase there are going to be lots more changes like these in the next 20 years.

The next wave to go will be low level white collar stuff.

Can you fight it? No. Don't bother. The usual solution of "keep American jobs here" and high tarrifs might as well be called depression in a can. Our economy relies on the movement of money. It would take 30-50 years to reconfigure the America economy away from cash flow to a more "producing what americans need" model. By then, we'd be so far behind the rest of the world technologically that we'd be irrelevant.

Instead, focus in on two facts:

1. In general, Americans are impossibly rich and have a standard of living far beyond most people in the world.

2. We also have a huge division of wealth. Our esteemed President has made it his task (via massive tax cuts for the wealthy) to grow that gap.

So if your falling on hard times, don't blame the Chinese. Instead, blame the atheletes, the CEOs, CFOs, and the trust fund babies.

**splat** · 10-10-2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Plakespear
Swiss skis? Damn right he should be impressed- Isn't the only Swiss ski company Stockli?

Is that headquartered or manufactured?

**BradyCU** · 10-10-2003, 11:22 AM

It comes down to the fact that we can't escape globalization, most things that are "made in the usa" use parts or materials that are not from the US. Also is a honda made in kentucky an american car? As long as the skis don't snap more often than regular skis then go with it.

**Mcwop** · 10-10-2003, 11:49 AM

With a whopping 1.62% profit margin, and negative 3 year sales growth - it is not surprising they tried to cut labor costs.

**robokill1981** · 10-10-2003, 01:13 PM

Plakespear-

Globalization is a bitch, but blaming K2 is a narrow view of the "problem" (not a discussion worth having). Would you rather K2 went out of business as an American company or flourished after moving production to China. And the fact of the matter is that K2 skis made on Vashon were crap, I personally delammed/broke/cracked 5 pairs in a single season back when they were made in the good old u.s of a. I've heard stories of their pro riders going through up to 3 pairs (of American skis) in one day due to delamination. But they were American made so they have to be better, right?