Hypothetical Situation

[gincognito]

Picture the perfect run. I can't tell you what it is - it's different for each of you. Odds are that powder is involved. Lots of it. Deep, choking, light as the breeze flowing around you and as fresh as your first thought. Maybe there are cliffs involved. Or tight chutes. Towering trees or wide expanses of bowls. Maybe it's steep and pucker inducing. Maybe it's mellow and sublime.

Whatever it is, imagine yourself skiing it. Skiing it perfectly. I mean absolutely nailing it. The hucks are stomped, the turns are crisp, the snow yields exactly as it should. You are transported to that place we all strive for. Not just for a turn or two, but for the whole goddamn run. 1000, 2000, 4000 vertical feet. Whatever you like. It's perfect and so are you. You move with the rhythm of the mountain and the world makes sense.

Except for that last turn. The very last move on this euphoric run. You falter. You catch an edge. Or hit a tree. Or misjudge the snow. In any case, a knee is tweaked, and an acl is lost.

The question: given the chance, do you do it all again - knowing the ending is inevitable? What about if the stakes were higher? A broken leg three days hike from help? A freak accident that will somehow result in an amputation? Paralysis? Death?

How much would you give up for the journey?

Sick and ashamed and happy (and just thinking about the movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (I highly recommend it (the less you know about it, the better))),
d.

[Endlessseason]

I've already given up countless brain cells due to at least four skiing concussions. Offered up my ACL along with the permanent loss of the main nerve that accompanies it--unfortunately that means I will never feel the same depth and range of sensation in my right leg again, no matter how much physical therapy I do.
I can't even remember how many bones I've broken in the last 19 years of skiing. Who knows what future injuries await me.
And most of my injuries didn't even occur in pursuit of the perfect run, so yeah, it's pretty obvious I'd do it all again...

[Samwich]

The only way I would not do it is if it was an injury that left me alive but unable to make turns again. If the outcome was death... it's hard to say. Maybe.

[iceman]

So, imagine you had a chance to be alive, but you knew that eventually, this "being alive" thing would end up with you dying...possibly with terrible illneses and a gradual erosion of your faculties...or perhaps in a freak accident, leaving all those who loved you bereft...would you do it?

[char]

Other than death and a vegetative state, all of the potential scenarios are merely the continuation of "the journey." The way it twists and turns are merely things that one has to accept, learn and grow from. I've made plently of mistakes and I'd do 90% of them again if only for the lessons I've learned.

[Phil]

Never look back. Downhill is the only place we can go as Sr. Ice points out.

I wouldn't give up a run on the chance I might not make it. Guess it is a personnal risk tolerance discussion then.

I would on the other hand give up said run if the outcome was foretold. Why would you jump into a firy pit if you knew you were gonna be badly bunt ? I'd play with fire though (can't figure out how that works yet and why we do that ?) Good question. Why is risk so attractive ?

What would you give up ?

[Samwich]

Originally posted by iceman
So, imagine you had a chance to be alive, but you knew that eventually, this "being alive" thing would end up with you dying...possibly with terrible illneses and a gradual erosion of your faculties...or perhaps in a freak accident, leaving all those who loved you bereft...would you do it?

absolutely not.

[Mountainman]

ACL? MCL? Broken? Easy. I've had to sit out with a broken leg. Its not fun but i got through it.


Paralysis? or Death? You can get those any day you ski. but not knowing if my next turn will make these happens makes me not think about them.

But if i knew i would be paralyzed or die i would never ski this run. I have to much to live for and i like climbing, hiking and mountain biking as much as i like skiing. I couldnt just end all of my sports just because of one.

[Samwich]

but MountainMan... the perfect run. Think about 4000 vertical feet of the PERFECT run. A run that would make Morrison vomit because it's so sick it's contagious. And you stomp it. I'd die for that. Paralysis, no. But i'd die for it.

[Buster Highmen]

Jim or Seth?

[gincognito]

I'm not sure how clear I was. Some seem to have gotten it, others maybe not. Obviously I've hurt myself. Obviously it hasn't stopped me from skiing. The question isn't so much about risk and fear as it is about short term euphoria versus long term suffering.

Tearing my acl hasn't stopped me from spinning on my skis. But had I know that the outcome of that 360, I surely would have given it a pass.

Perhaps this is a better scenario: this dream run of yours ends in a cliff. Not a certain death cliff, but one that is virtually impossible to stick cleanly. Maybe you'll make it unscathed, but odds are heavily stacked that you will suffer some serious damage. Once you start the run, you are committed. Do you start? Do you throw yourself into the fleeting emotion of bliss, or do you allow reason to take control and save yourself for other days?

Is it better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all? How much are your scars worth? What price do you put on your pain?

Sick and ashamed and happy (and, yes, life is fine and all, but death will really rock my world),
d.

[acostiga]

Originally posted by gincognito
Is it better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all? How much are your scars worth? What price do you put on your pain?

yes, it's better to have loved and lost. without the sum of my experiences i wouldn't be the person i am today. for the most part, i'm happy with me. what's the point of feeling very strongly otherwise? without experiencing some of the downers in life would i really be able to appreciate the better things the same way?

it's impossible to say what my scars are worth, or what price i'd put on my pain, because at the end of the day it's all just bits and pieces of who i am- and where i'm going. upwards, onwards, forwards.

this is a pretty heavy monday morning subject, but luckily i dipped into a jar of 222's instead of advil for my headache- and am feeling pretty damn good. yay.

not sure who or where it's from, but i read a quote that went something to the effect of... better to regret the things you've done than regret the things you haven't done. err something.

[snowsprite]

Originally posted by gincognito
Perhaps this is a better scenario: this dream run of yours ends in a cliff. Not a certain death cliff, but one that is virtually impossible to stick cleanly. Maybe you'll make it unscathed, but odds are heavily stacked that you will suffer some serious damage. Once you start the run, you are committed. Do you start? Do you throw yourself into the fleeting emotion of bliss, or do you allow reason to take control and save yourself for other days?

What colors my decision regarding risk is my nine year-old son. Because of his age and dependency on me, I tend to chill on the majorly dangerous stuff. Not to mention that I suck at skiing.

However, I believe that when I consider him to be "independent" enough will I begin taking more risks. I hope so. I want to push my skiing to a higher level. But there's always that "my kid needs me" factor kind of holding me back. And from what a lot of parents tell me, that never really goes away. Still, I can only be "the mommy" and live in mellow-mode for so long. At some point I need to go for my own goals and follow my own desires fully again.

I'll say one thing though...I certainly do hope I die out on the slopes one day (but hopefully after raising my son to be a good man, and enjoying many seasons of skiing). It would certainly beat dying in a sterile hospital room or nursing home. And I'd be dying w/ a happy heart--regardless of any physical pain or suffering I might endure in the process.
Sprite

[snowsprite]

Gin--re-reading my post I see I didn't really answer your question.

My answer is: In theory...yes I'd take the ultimate thrill and pay the ultimate price. Totally worth it IMO!

Nice thread too! Makes ya think, on a Monday morning. (perhaps you should post a warning?)

Sprite

[noodles]

Pass and keep the knee. Then search for said perfect run on my own, without the certainty of carnage. Haven't there been enough lessons on why making deals with the devil is a bad idea?

[bad_roo]

Speaking as a big pussy, I would definitely opt to keep my bloody strings intact.

Part of the enjoyment of the perfect run is the anticipation and continuing quest. RICE doesn't enter my personal equation.

[Anxious Mo-Fo]

No f-in' way. One great run in exchange for (guaranteed) two to three months of misery... maybe more, long-term damage, and residual pain for god knows how long?

Either all of you are grandstanding or I'm a bigass fairy/gaper/ nancy boy... but I ain't going there.

[shmerham]

If I had the perfect run in front of me, but the only way out was certain ski-career-ending injury; I would not take it. I am convinced that the journey of finding that perfect run is more satisfying than the run itself. I also believe that the perfect run may be out there, and possible to take it without ruining my career. Oh yeah, and even some runs that are far from perfect are still great, and I wouldn't want to give up a future of them, at the cost of one perfect run.

If I took the run, and was faced with the possibility to alter my life's events to not have the injury; I wouldn't. No regrets. Often times I wonder what the hell I was thinking going to a school with a 75% male population, but I wouldn't change my decision. How do I know what would've come of going to a different school, or what my current path could lead me to.

[Viva]

Originally posted by gincognito

Perhaps this is a better scenario: this dream run of yours ends in a cliff. Not a certain death cliff, but one that is virtually impossible to stick cleanly. Maybe you'll make it unscathed, but odds are heavily stacked that you will suffer some serious damage. Once you start the run, you are committed. Do you start?

If you've reached that certain point in your skiing where this is the next challenge, then yes, you go for it.

[Chronic]

I'm surprised how many people would take the run. I guess I weigh long-term consequences pretty heavily, because there's no way I would sacrifice a knee. I ski many runs each season that I already derive an enormous amount of satisfaction and pleasure from, and to miss out on all of that for just one run - no matter how perfect - just isn't worth it to me. But hell, I'm old and decrepit anyway.

[Idris]

I'm with Roo on this one.....I'm not up for an injury just for the sake of a so called perfect run.....I've been lucky enough get some runs that others may ony dream of (best this season is 7500 contiuous vert in powder), I'd much rather endless lesser days and no pain.......currently suffering badly bruised knees that hurt to walk and a bloody nose from my last attempt at a big day....there is always another day and its better to wait, especially in this town

[Karl Stall]

Yep...I agree with Idris and Roo. I have been fortunate to have many "best run ever's" with no problems and have had season ending ones doing stupid worthless shit. At 34, staying healthy is my top priority.

[ak_powder_monkey]

The minurte we are born we start dieing

[Idris]

Originally posted by ak_powder_monkey
The minurte we are born we start dieing

wow somone whe spells worse than me ........Hope you get a chance to ski with lfingle when he visits your hood, then you may reconsider some of your words....especially if you try and keep up.....

[Arnold Babar]

Don't want to be repetitive, but I just kinda lived this scenario. As noted on another thread: after not skiing all year, I took a trip to Tuckerman Ravine. 1st run was euphoric. 2nd run tore my right MCL. My rehab period is still uncertain. In a funny way it was kinda worth it. I got one great run in, and a great day with my peeps. I've been haunting this board for months with little or nothing to add because I haven't been skiing. Now, because of that mishap I'm part of the conversation. I very well could have injured myself doing yardwork that day instead, and I would not have that one great run to remember the season by. Perhaps it was pre-ordained that I would be injured that day no matter what activity I was engaging. Good luck with rehab, you've got company.